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Reviews Books The JC Lit Reviews Special: DESTINY'S WAY (DW spoilers)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Caine, Sep 27, 2002.

  1. JediMasterAaron

    JediMasterAaron Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2000
  2. JediJSolo

    JediJSolo Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 11, 2001
    Don?t worry about it, Valiento. I remember this one Luke/Mara fanfic that I read? It took place right after Vision of the Future. It was all about Luke and Mara?s? Well, never mind what it was about. :p

    The point is that I still confuse that fanfic with canon SW.
     
  3. GeistDesFritz

    GeistDesFritz Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 25, 2002
    Well, I've finally gotten DW, read it, digested it, thought about it, and reread it and feel that I am now ready to review it.

    After Traitor, I'm afraid this book had a lot to live up to and as far as I'm concerned, didn't really delivor.
    The new Force discoveries weren't really delt with as much as I would have liked to see and I felt like Jacen was just being shoe-horned back into his position as apprentice (especially when he just returned). His whole asking Luke what he should do just didn't really sit well with me, especially his whole accepting his orders. Earlier in the NJO, Jacen seemed to pretty much do whatever he wanted. IE, in Balance Point, he chose to give up the force, he chose to go to Duros instead of staying on Coruscant. Sure, he may have discussed it with others first, but he still did what he wanted to do. After all that happened to him in Traitor and his learning to "Choose and Act" I was disappointed to see him letting others choose for him. Dammit, if you want a vacation, take it! If you want to meet with Vergere, do it. Don't just let Luke tell you what you can and cannot do.
    Nit-pick/personal preference: I'm really disappointed Jacen didn't shave his beard off. My image of him through out the book tended to be that of Jesus...unsettling. But hey, at least he no longer has Duck Face Syndrome.

    Vergere: In some ways, I liked her, in some ways I didn't. In this book, she declares herself to be a Jedi, while I could have sworn she said in Traitor that she wasn't a Jedi. She also says she's loyal to the Old Republic...well, good luck with that Vergere. I was extraodinarily disappointed to see her die. I feel that there is still so much knowledge Vergere has to give out to the new Jedi and I think, at the very least, she could have been another Kyp Durron to antagonize the Jedi. Still, I must admit she died a good death. I was confused in that moment, just like Jacen was, thinking she was still alive. Who knows, maybe she'll stick around and advise the Jedi.

    The New Jedi Council: I have a problem with this. I have a problem with the whole sticking Government officials on the jedi council. Personally, I also have a problem with the jedi being tied to any government what so ever. As shown by the Old Republic, a government that holds certain ideals one day, can easily give them up the next. It would be best for the Jedi (IM, duh) to not have loyalties to any government, but rather to certain ideals, such as peace and justice or whatnot.
    I found Rodans arguments regarding the Jedi's role to be exactly how I felt about the Jedi through out the NJO. What exactly are they supposed to do??

    The New Republic: I want the Insiders back. i want an inner Rebellion. Even though the New Republic has supposedly been brought back, let's face it: they haven't been doing the best job of providing for their citizens and are very corrupt...I'm hoping Cal Omas will arrange for a new constitution and a new name...a new government is most definitely necessary for a new start.

    Some things in this book just seem too convenient, such as the absolutely perfect plan to destroy (or severly weaken) the Vong, the production rates suddenly going sky high, more droids, more pilots...it's almost as though someone waved their hand and said, well, I think this book should be the turning point of the NJO. How convenient. We were told that at least 5 times during the book...while I'm glad this leaves no room for mistaking it, I still can't help but feel like I'm being it on the head about something. Maybe that this book is the turning point of the NJO...who knows.

    the Vong: Well, I'm glad Tsavong Lah bit the big one in this book. I was though pretty annoyed by his character...I think Tsavong Lah was at his best in the Enemy Lines Duology, when he was faced with the conspiracy and his rotting implant. As for Nom Anor, isn't he dead yet? I'm sorry, I can't wait for him to die. Or at least led a revolt using the shamed ones as his power source...speaking of which...
    The Shamed Ones: Talk about potential here! I'm glad thi
     
  4. Skywalk272

    Skywalk272 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 16, 2000
    That is pretty much how I felt Geist . . but I thought the fight with the War Master and Jaina was a little confusing. So was the believability that he was the ONLY Vong to survive the initial depressurisation.
     
  5. J_K_DART

    J_K_DART Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 31, 2001
    REVIEW OF DESTINY?S WAY

    I?ve decided to break my review down into sub-sections.

    OVERALL STRUCTURE
    In terms of structure, I wouldn?t say DW is the best book in the world ? it?s two month leap between Chapters 21 and 22 ? where Ylesia fits in ? is a little artificial, and a little abrupt. That?s probably the only qualm I?ve got with the general structure, though; the rest of the book works perfectly.

    STYLE
    I do, however, have SOME problems with the general style of the book. Only one paragraph in the book was really annoying, in Chapter 2 ? ?I was calculating enemy trajectories.? Stiffly. ?Such things take one?s full attention.?
    WJW is also fond on using the word ?were? when ?was? is more appropriate.
    Again, though, I?m nit-picking; the simple fact is, in style, the book works well. Now, on to the general content.

    CONTENT
    This NJO book isn?t meant to be taken as seriously as many. Compared to Traitor, it?s light relief. If Traitor was ?Star Wars +?, then Destiny?s Way is back to the very spirit of SW. It?s a lighthearted epic, bouncing across the galaxy with reckless abandon. It probably tries to do TOO MUCH ? which was actually one mistake I suspected had been made. And it?s also another example of the EU Syndrome ? how most of the EU books seem to start with a little action, spend a lot of the book laying groundwork, then end with a major battle that takes up surprisingly little space.
    Much of the book was of the best quality, it really was. From the opening, the idea that this is the turning point is blazing brightly; even in Chapter One, Leia and Han reflect that things have changed. The only thing I dislike is that it is Jacen?s return that is the turning point; but then, that?s because I still object to Anakin?s death, really.

    CHARACTERISATION
    Luke ? At last this is our Jedi Master becoming a real person once again, although in the final battle he should have been leading a squadron of X-wings with the other Jedi. Frankly, Luke shouldn?t have been on the bridge, he should have been out there ? he was at Coruscant and Borleias, and he was lethal in both those confrontations. Luke should have been in that battle as a real presence, not just somebody gently offering advice and counsel.
    In DW, Luke seems much stronger than in much of the NJO. At the same time, he?s more cunning (for example, talking Han into leading the Smugglers? Squadron ? he tells them Jacen and Jaina are going to be there). There?s a little streak of ruthlessness and manipulation in our Jedi Master. He seems willing to get things done, which is a blessing, and can take direct responsibility for the success of Ackbar?s plan. I also especially like Luke?s reaction to Alpha Red, although frankly I happen to be of the opinion Luke himself should have been the one to sabotage the project. When Luke is told the project has been delayed by three months, his reaction is to think, Then I have three months to win this war. I like the fact that Luke is taking personal responsibility, because it indicates he may well be taking the front lines. Luke Skywalker may well be back ? and it?s about time.

    Mara Jade Skywalker ? Characterisation of Mara has been poor throughout the NJO, but in DW, WJW has her spot-on. Her little espionage tricks seem amusing, a little clichéd to be honest; but it?s pretty much the most action Mara?s had in the series (direct combat, she?s battled in Onslaught, Ruin, Balance Point and SbS). Her character was also perfect. The scene where she?s looking at the children, and again when her instincts tell her the Vong agents are up to something, are both highlights of the book imo. Well done to WJW for taking a tricky character, and getting her right, more so than most NJO-authors.
    Jacen Solo ? In many ways, this is Jacen?s book. He?s now officially an outsider, looking in, which gives him a position of significant prominence in the book. Thankfully, he actually seems to be in-character, as well as nicely grown and developed after the events of Traitor. Jacen?s out in a boat with Danni Que
     
  6. PtrsonsZOO

    PtrsonsZOO Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2001
    This may be a little late, but I just came across this thread. My rating would be the same as Truce @ Bakura (which used to be the worst one for me) at a 3/10.

    Here's my supporting arguements:

    Again we have this, "Oh my God, I haven't resolved one of the character's crisis, we'll do it in 2 pages" phenomenon. What Jaina is saved from despair in 2 frickin' pages!!!!!! No id on't think you should be allowed to spend an entire 400+ pages book describing a person's fight w/ desparia dn then wrap it all up in pretty pink box across TWO PAGES!!!

    Okay, where's the the whole "Jacen Left him" thing? Not mentioned, not eluded to, nothing. She shows up and all is well w/ the twins. I don't buy it.

    Luke as a political animal? Please, what was this about? Mara, yes, I can see that. She spent a large part of her life dealing in a form of backroom politics (an incredibly violent form, but political in nature none the less).

    Vergere - Oh, please, where'd all the potential go? There was so much they could have done w/ her and having her crach into the Moon Base was the best they could come up w/. She spent half the book hiding in Jacen's quarters. Total waste of a possibly great character. She was the connection to the Old Order, for crying out loud!

    Danni Quee - What the hell was that about? Yeah sure, it gave Jacen knowledge about Alpha Red, which in turn gave it Vergere (who did a fine job of screwing up Scaur's plans, the only decent thing she did in this book). Besides, no one wants Jacen to end up w/ her, we want Tenal Ka, not some egghead force adept. We want rough and tumble Dathomirian Witches, not Astrophysicists.

    Leia - Where the hell was she through this whole thing? Han had a better part in this than she did. The Solo Slingshot was a really great part of this book.

    Female Characters - IT's not just Leia, but all of the female character took a back seat in this book. Cilghal was left to follow around at Vergere's whim, Mara was giving Luke a massage (okay so she did kill the Vong assassins, but that's it). Winter was mopping up Ackbar. Leia was Han's shadow, not even getting any great lines. Jaina was just this frazzled jumble of nerves, flying on instinct instead of skill. This guy must have some serious issues w/ women to turn some of the best female characters in Sci-Fi into accessories (cheesy ones at that).

    Williams did a good job on the battle scenes, not as good as Allston, but I think he may be the master. He did a great job of showing the despair that Jaina was feeling, but he just didn't use it effectively enough. And when the resolution came it was like someone just threw a switch and it was done.

    I did find the use of the Vong against the Vong as a great concept. And having Ackbar come out of retirement to do it followed the same path as the Rebel series where they had to get back to basics and stop acting like the ultimate power in the universe, because they aren't anymore. He did a great job w/ Ackbar, though Zahn has the best Ackbar stuff I've ever read. He is one of the most under utilized characters in the SW Universe.

    The Vong stuff was pretty well done, except that he kept crossing the lines between Republic terminolgy and Vongese.

    I have some real issues w/ the portrayal of Jacen and Vergere. There is all of this potential w/ these two characters. Their return to the Republic, escape from the Vong, and Jacen's transformation. Where was the transformation, where is the Destiny in Destiny's Way?

    All in all it wasn't a bad book, it just didn't really seem to accomplish anything, while being really busy at it, all in the same breath.

    I just thought w/ 400+ pages of text, the story should have gone a lot farther than it did. I feel like I was just taken around in circles for a while. And what's the deal w/ Jacen. Is he ever going to come out of this holding pattern? After Traitor, I was so psyched to think that I would finally get to see him DO something!!! Him thinking stuff has been done, over done. The whole business w/ the World Brain, what the frell wa
     
  7. lightsaber_wielder

    lightsaber_wielder Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 24, 2002
    My review coming soon!
     
  8. J_K_DART

    J_K_DART Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 31, 2001
    Just so's we know...

    Counting 65 reviews, at 8.06/10
     
  9. Caine

    Caine Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 3, 2002

    Counting 65 reviews.

    JC Lit Average Rating of DW = 523.6/65 ~ 8.06/10
     
  10. lightsaber_wielder

    lightsaber_wielder Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 24, 2002
    Well, I finished Destiny's Way yesterday, and I am very impressed. It has excelled the expectations that I held for it.

    Plot
    The opening scene was good, but since I'd read it in Traitor it was kind of a re-cap. The meeting between Jag, Han, Leia and Vana Dorja was interesting. Luke's meeting with Rodan was not new either, but was good all the same. The next thing that got me interested was Vergere's story of how she came to leave Zonama Sekot. It is an excellent tale, almost sad, you could say. It was great to have some loose ends tied up from Rogue Planet. Before reading DW, I thought that the Jedi being involved in politics would be boring, but it was well done and interesting. I liked the three separate reunions with Jacen, and thought that they were written very well and do not deserve the criticism they are receiving. The battle at the end was spectacular. I loved the action on Ebaq 9, and also the space fight. And for one like me who normally doesn't care much for space battles, that's saying something. Finally, we see the turning point. The plot was a great balance of action and politics.


    Characters
    Luke: I was extremely pleased with Luke's characterisation. Walter Jon Williams has been the first author to potray Luke as less of a philosophising pacifist and more as...well, more like the Luke we knew. I know Luke doesn't have action in this novel, though his personality was very well done.

    Mara: Mara was excellent. Walter Jon Williams has great grasp of her character and personality.

    Jacen: Jacen was great. He's like the Jacen we saw in Traitor, more willing to action and less confused about the Force. Nice change. Jacen is now one of my favourite characters.

    Jaina: I know that Jaina's been receiving a lot of criticism for the way she is potrayed in DW. But I think her mood is justified. I mean, come on, she's been fighting endless battles, has suffered hurt and pain, been to the dark side, and is keeping grief for her two brothers bottled up inside. All those kind of negative emotions just don't whisk themselves away. I liked her portrayal by Walter Jon Williams.

    Han: Good, but not enough of him in the story.

    Leia: Ditto.

    Others: Cal Omas is a good character. Finally, a sensible Chief of State! Vergere is well-written, and I feel sorry for her, as she has lost everything that she knew. It was great to see Winter again. She's finally returned from limbo! Ackbar was good, but he's not so cool when he's old and sick. Nom Anor was just the same as usual. Tsavong Lah could have been portrayed a little better, as he seems to reach the low of his strength, tactical ability and power in this book.


    THE VERDICT:
    I enjoyed Destiny's Way greatly. It probably ties with Star by Star as my favourite book in The New Jedi Order. Walter Jon Williams has done an excellent job. So, my rating:

    10 out of 10.




     
  11. Kyp_

    Kyp_ Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 17, 2002
    Counting 66 reviews.
    Average rating : 533.6/66 = 8.08
     
  12. JediRaanic

    JediRaanic Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 23, 2001
    I just finished Destiny's Way and I loved it! I was awsome...however I didn't like how Vergere died. :( I have a feeling Ackbar will bite it in the next book too. Overall very very nice. 9 out of 10
     
  13. njb87

    njb87 Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 21, 2002
    A great book!! 10/10
     
  14. Excellence

    Excellence Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2002
    Ackbar's tactical plan was something any bantha could have done, and I'm talking cubs. Lure an enemy fleet into a hyperlane deadend, so there's only one confirmed direction they can jump in . . . and seed that region with myriad mines. I was disappointed.

    Overall, I'll DW a . . .

    8
    /
    10
     
  15. Caine

    Caine Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 3, 2002

    I think this is a good time to bring the reviews thread of the last book back up and update...

    Counting 69 votes.

    JC Lit Average Rating of DW = 560.6/69 ~ 8.12/10
     
  16. masterskywalker

    masterskywalker Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2001

    "Ackbar's tactical plan was something any bantha could have done, and I'm talking cubs. Lure an enemy fleet into a hyperlane deadend, so there's only one confirmed direction they can jump in . . . and seed that region with myriad mines. I was disappointed."

    Yes, that's a very simple STRATEGIC plan, but the tactics of the engagement which Ackbar micromanaged were very complex.

    First, he had the first squadron isolated as bait and the Vong launched a simple direct envelopment attack against them.

    Then a second smaller squadron desguised as a convoy escort attacked the flank of the enveloping groups.

    Next, a third squadron, deceptively small and non uniform showed up to relieve the pressure on the first two New Republic squadrons but had to not "look" like an ambush so the Vong wouldn't get skittish and retreat. This was done to give time for the mine feild to be completed and to spread the Vong thinly where they could be beatin by the Hammer and Anvil of the NR fleet.

    Finally, the three or four massive and fully formed NR squadrons came out of the secret deepcore hyperspace lanes and attacked the Vong from all sides. The enemy was damaged and one squadron was obliterated, the rest retreated, through the minefeild...

    Much more complicated than you discribe, no? :p :D

     
  17. Excellence

    Excellence Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2002
    I think I posted that many moons ago!

    But still . . . it wasn't that complex. Though one bad thing about bringing a known hero to win a victory---any hero, it doesn't matter who---is that it gives the impression that only the big names are allowed, or can only, win them. That since Sovv hasn't done anything of substance, only Ackbar can do it.

    I think that's why readers take to names like Cole Fardreamer, Gavin Darklighter and the Wraith characters: people relatively unknown to us, but can win the day without having to be a well-known name.
     
  18. Mastadge

    Mastadge Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 1999
    Only about another month until this one comes out in paperback. . .
     
  19. Mastadge

    Mastadge Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 1999
    OK, bringing 'er up for those who waited for the paperback.
     
  20. Excellence

    Excellence Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2002
    Um . . . how would paperback reviews be any different to hardcover reviews? e-Ylesia isn't in it, so nothing new to comment. Well, unless new buyers want to comment.

    I think I just answered my own question . . . :p