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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Reviews Books The JC Lit Reviews Special: FATE OF THE JEDI: ASCENSION (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Havac , Aug 28, 2011.

  1. AusStig

    AusStig Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 3, 2010
    It was a mixed bag some good some bad. others have made these points.

    I will say this had some of my favorite moments in FOTJ, but I really thought that Lecersen would betray Daala,I hope he survives the series as I like him, because he is smart and calculating I think he would be good for Jag to have work with him. Pity Denning is writing the next book and Lecersen will be one dimensionally evil.

    Did not like Vestra in the book, to weak and cried to much. I thought that the fight with Ben would make her stronger not some weak thing. The slap was underwhelming. The 'new' conspiracy figured stuff out too fast, but then it has two-three author pets so :rolleyes:
    I liked Lord Vol, didn't like how he died, I wanted him to meet Luke, or at least make some nice lizard skin rugs [face_devil]

    the least boring book since Outcaste, but too much bad characterization for me to call good.

    5/10
     
  2. marmkid

    marmkid Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 29, 2001
    The whole series has been average at best, with the usual ?lets waste 4 books of nothing going on at all beyond Han and Leia eating ice cream with Allana? filler, then cramming everything in to the last 2 books.

    This book though finally had some things happen, which was a nice change, and maybe that?s why I had more fun reading it.

    Good things:
    Jedi actually working together for a change. Nice to see them coordinate together and have it actually feel like there are more than 4 Jedi in the galaxy.

    Jag and the chiss army destroying Daala?s army.

    Luke moving the Jedi off Coruscant. I like that the stable Jedi we hear about pre-Legacy is being actively set up by Luke.

    The Sith posing as a Senator. Kind of cool

    What I am assuming to be Abeloth posing as that other new senator walking in with the high Sith Lord?s head. Maybe it?s because I just skim these books these days, but that surprised me.

    Tahiri as the first Imperial Knight, maybe. I like how it wasn?t really done as expected like, oh Jaina wants to marry Jag and still be a Jedi, so she starts her own school in the Empire.


    Bad things:
    Saba?s ?judgement?. I guess it gave closure, and is basically what I expected. If it is just never mentioned again, then this would be ok I guess

    Vestara?s turn?.seriously, it took her about a page and a half to completely turn against her entire culture? And she is instantly all flowers and sunshine? Then she of course murders a fellow Jedi the first chance she really has to be a Jedi. It?s almost like she is acting like a 16 year old girl, oh wait, she is. Just kidding sort of, but it seems incredibly obvious that if Ben were not around, Vestara would have little actual desire to be a Jedi. Why Luke couldn?t see this is a bit stupid to me

    All the politics?I normally find the politics to be interesting, but it just doesn?t seem to be done well in this series. I don?t know if its too many new charactors popping up every book or what, but it just isn?t holding my interest. I don?t know if they are trying to make it too complicated, or if I just don?t care anymore or what. Lerscen or whatever his name is doesn?t interest me. Daala doesn?t interest me. Boba Fett and the terrible Mando coffee doesn?t interest me. I feel like its just a side story that is wasting page time right now, with the main story being glossed over as a result of it.

    The Sith ?parade? nonsense. The beginning with Abeloth coming to the Sith world was kind of cool, and her destroying the whole village or whatever was cool. But then it gets kind of left behind and then forgotten completely

    Vesatara not telling them where Kesh is. This should have been the ultimate red flag to Luke. Um, she wants to be a Jedi, she will spot the Sith impersonating a Senator, but she wont tell the Jedi where Kesh is? And why exactly? Unless she thinks Luke will just bomb the whole planet, I don?t see her issue if we are to actually believe she turned. A stupid minor plot hole just to do what exactly? Are the lost tribe sticking around past this series? There is only one book left, why hold it back? Vestara should have just made sure Luke wasn?t going to just slaughter them all and that he had an actual plan for dealing with them.

    Oh well
    Overall I?d say about a 7.5/10
     
  3. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 162.1/32 = 5.07
     
  4. BROWNHORNET

    BROWNHORNET Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 9, 2007
    Before I read Ascension I saw that the book was receiving a good deal of hate on this board, but I liked it. I thought Golden concluded her portion of FOTJ in a strong fashion. In fact, I've liked all of Golden's entries for the most part and I think she does a pretty good job with Vestara and the Lost Tribe.

    The Good:
    -Finally the best use of Jaina in the entire series. She should've been on this quest with Luke and Ben from jump, if for no other reason to find out what befell her brother as well. I particularly liked her words of consolation to Vestara. This is something that should've been said since Invincible.
    -Conspiracies everywhere. After being the in background for a while, almost to the point they were nonexistent, Golden brings back Lercersen and the plotters giving them the spotlight here. I liked all the plots and counterplots.
    -The Jedi leaving Coruscant and becoming independent operators. This is something that should've happened a while ago and it sets up the Legacy comics.
    -Lost Tribe in control of Coruscant. I enjoyed the passages of the Sith walking through the Jedi Temple; it put me in the mind of ROTS.
    -Tahiri possibly being the founder of the Imperial Knights. I like that idea better than Jaina founding them.
    -Best use of Daala all series. She felt way more natural back in command of a fleet.
    -Imperial space battle. The best in the series, which has oddly lacked a lot of space battles-though I'm not complaining.
    -Jag & Lecersen finally leaving Coruscant and returning to Imperial Space. It seems they spend more time in the Alliance than in their own Empire.
    -Vestara's development and twist at the end. I wasn't expecting it but I felt it was keeping with her character. I didn't want her being too much sweetness and light.
    -Jedi taskforce going after Abeloth.
    -I was surprised how Luke/Ben/Vestara weren't at the center of the book and I still enjoyed it. Even the Leia/Han/Allana scenes were more tolerable than they generally are.
    -Markre Medjev got a mention, I wish he had been on Upekzar. They could've used him.
    -Lando cameo. It's always good to see him.
    -Natua Wan, glad she got some facetime, and there was a mention of a couple other younger Jedi, so hopefully we'll get to see more of them too in the next book and series.
    -Actions in the book finally fitting the series' title. The decision to leave Coruscant felt fateful.


    The Bad:
    -Structure; I think the 50 page opening on the Lost Tribe was odd. Though I got why Golden did it. The Lost Tribe/Kesh needed to be fleshed out more.
    -Content: It felt at times like Ascension was more a book about remembering forgotten loose ends and tying them up, to clear the path for a big battle in Apocalypse. I thought Golden did the best she could but I wish many of these threads had been spread throughout the series better.
    -Pace: Like many others I had an issue with how easily the Sith came to power, how easily they created this network that is everywhere all of a sudden, and how they could hopefully think they could conquer the galaxy, even if they controlled Coruscant. I liked that their threat level was upped, but I wish it had been done more organically.
    -Also, had an issue with Daala just having a fleet at her disposal or that she could win over enough Moffs to become leader of the Empire, since many of them appear to be sexist.
    -Sith described as extraordinarily good looking humans. Were these supposed to be Keshiri in disguise? That was never explained. And Golden was a bit repetitive in describing many Sith that way. And if they are Keshiri in disguise then why the need to hide the Keshiri Sith?
    -No One Sith on Korriban?
    -Kyp being in two places at once?
    -Abeloth/Roki Kem behavior at the end of the novel. It was murky to me, the way it was written, about how public her displays of emotion were inside the Temple.
    -Ben slapping Vestara. It could've een handled a better way in the sense that Ben could have at least apologized. Though to be fair, Vestara had assaulted him first. That's not justifying his actions bu
     
  5. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 170.1/33 = 5.15
     
  6. Todd the Jedi

    Todd the Jedi Mod and Loving Tyrant of SWTV, Lit, & Collecting star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 16, 2008
    The end is near. All the cards are in place for an explosive finale in Apocalypse, with Ascension as the proverbial calm before the storm. Christie Golden moves the story along in a way that ties various plotlines together as well as setting everything up for the conclusion of the series.

    Golden took an interesting approach to the plot structure of this book. Instead of continually flipping through the plot lines she spends greater focus on each plot and clumps most of the action together. For instance, the first several chapters follow a continuous story on Kesh that deals with Abeloth and the Lost Tribe. All the actions in this section are wrapped up in this part, and Golden moves on to the next plots. The other plots do switch off, but their individual segments last long and much happens in those segments. That said a lot happens in this book. Once Luke returns to Coruscant and removes the Jedi the plot there is pretty tame, focusing on the political machinations between the various factions on the planet. I love how the Treen-Lecersen plot blew up all around them, thanks to the Lost Tribe and to an extent Daala. Lecersen's reasoning for the Freedom Flight was pretty sound and did essentially work, but once Daala was out of power nothing was holding her back anymore. She wants to rule the galaxy and will do whatever it takes to achieve her goal. Her battle against Fel and his allies was pretty cool, and the way Jag refers to her as the usurper is evocative of the future conflict between his descendants and Darth Krayt. Tahiri is in a position to easily become the first Imperial Knight, so It'll be interesting to see how that plays out.

    **** hits the fan on Coruscant later in the book, with the Sith senator influencing events in the name of the Lost Tribe. I thought it was funny how easily Abeloth defeated the Grand Lord; the Lost Tribe are really nothing compared to her, though they are fairly adept at influencing the public. I think it's pretty believable that they are able to establish a news organization, having been exposed to the greater galaxy for over two years. It was interesting seeing some things from Abeloth's POV. Her wanton use of violence and extreme mood swings reminds me of Majora from the Legend of Zelda, and seeing things from her perspective only shows how seemingly random she is. Her Roki Kem persona is obviously reminiscent of the much-loved public face of Palpatine. It is only a matter of time before she becomes Queen of the Stars, as she puts it. Still, that scene where she is a massless form with no sense of how many limbs or tentacles she has was pretty frightening/gross. [face_sick]

    I liked the idea behind Club Bwua'tu; while the forces of evil gather in the absence of the Jedi, this group keeps things balanced so that the Sith aren't always winning. I love the image of Han disguised as a cab driver, and Parova's disbelief of what she is seeing. I liked Leia's breakout; cool seeing Lando and Zekk in action. I thought it was cute that Allana was aware of Zekk watching over her all along. She's beginning to develop the political cunning of her mother, especially when dealing with the Squibs. Though they didn't appear much I liked Artoo and Threepio here, since they were characterized pretty well. Poor Wynn Dorvan, though, hope he survives to the end.

    I actually thought the Luke/Jedi plot was weaker than the Coruscant/Empire plot. Nevertheless, I did like the investigations of the Sith worlds, especially Dromund Kaas and its shout outs to TOR. I think Vestara is progressing along the best, while Ben seemed a bit more naive here. I thought he had the right intentions during the incident with Vestara's letters, but he acted a bit too harsh IMO. After that, though, he's firmly convinced that Vestara is good now, or at least trying her best. Even though after she kills Natua she thinks she can be nothing but Sith, I think that is just her being a drama queen. Yes, she acted in the dark, but it was to save Ben's life, and she is young enough that she can still avoid a dark path if she continue
     
  7. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 178/34 = 5.24
     
  8. MistrX

    MistrX Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 20, 2006
    Oh boy, what is there to say? There are elements to this penultimate chapter of the FOTJ storyline that make for an interesting story and some that I thought were actually executed well. Unlike other FOTJ books where the action and plot constantly jumped from location to location, focusing on different sets of characters, this book at times devotes long stretches to single settings and groups of characters. It still does that familiar jumping from time to time, but it seemed like long pages would be devoted to certain plots, particularly the Lost Tribe’s dealings with Abeloth at the beginning and long stretches focusing on the Lecersen et al conspiracy and other political intrigue on Coruscant. Like with Conviction, those plots have a sense of progress and I’m left to wonder why it took until the third trilogy in FOTJ for something to really happen there.

    Interesting as well are the developments in Vestara’s story, a character that Golden first introduced to us and who really gets a lot thrown at her this time around. Getting to visit some familiar Sith planets was interesting, but looking back seem primarily as a series of MacGuffins to give Vestara character growth and complications, particularly the confrontation with her father which seemed simultaneously anticlimactic and game changing. Her story represents one of the strengths I thought the book had which was how around the middle of the story things seemed to start going exceptionally well for the good guys. Luke was back on Coruscant, he had a plan, they had a friend as acting Chief of State and his Chief of Staff, the conspiracy seemed to be unraveling, Vestara wanted to be a Jedi, etc. Then that fortune reverses quite dramatically much as it does with Vestara’s plot. One would expect wrenches thrown in that little teenage love affair, but I’m not sure I was expecting it to happen that quickly. Her choice will certainly come back to haunt them all, hopefully in Apocalypse and not some future, far off book.

    The culmination of the Lecersen/Treen conspiracy, Daala’s power grab, Jag’s dealing with it, and all of it coming together was one of the more intriguing aspects of the book. About time for something to happen there, too. Seriously, could this series not have been compressed to at most six books? It seems so unnecessary. Anyway, nice to see that finally reaching its climax even as it seems to be left on a cliffhanger to be resolved in the final book. I, for one, am looking forward to the nature of Jag’s final victory. Though it did bring up an odd tendency for everyone involved to feel comfortable about explaining their entire plan to whoever seemed to ask. That was somewhat irritating.

    Which finally brings me to the major, glaring problem with the book, the grand plan of the Lost Tribe and its convergence with that of Abeloth. Like I said at the top, there are some interesting elements here that if executed well could have been quite intriguing and I’ll admit they could make for a fun finale. The problem is, so much seems to happen that suspends disbelief and we get nary an explanation for any of it. Somehow, Sith are infiltrating a handful of liberated slave worlds (including one character who we know for certain was on Kesh at the beginning of the book, so it’s not like this has been developing for some time) and getting elected to the Senate as their representatives. Somehow, the Lost Tribe manages to set up the GFFA equivalent of Fox News or MSNBC and make it a major player in Coruscant media. I know we’re told many times how well the Lost Tribe has adapted to the galaxy in their two or three years since Ship brought them to it, but we need more than that. Even an explanation as simple as claiming the Sith did something along the lines of Abeloth, knocking off a few elected Senators and replacing them with Tribe agents. But there’s none of that. Somehow, the Tribe becomes a collection of bumbling pursuers routinely killed by the Skywalkers and Vestara to, without Abeloth’s help, master infiltrators with amazing influence on the GA government. Palpatine would be jealous. They’ve had seven previous books to at least hint that things like this were happening. Whereas the Lecersen/Treen affair was at least building on and off in the previous books, much of this Lost Tribe grand plan comes out of nowhere, as if the authors realized 2/3 of the way through the series that they needed a way for the Lost Tribe and Abeloth to threaten the galaxy and so they shoehorned this insanity in. If the past had made sense, there are certain things that kind of work. I’m all right with Workan’s quick rise and manipulation of the system because he initially gets a lot of support from Treen and Lecersen. They put him in a position to succeed and he then uses his Sith wiles (since apparently the Lost Tribe members actually have some) to start gaming the system. I’m fine with Abeloth getting herself elected after we get Workan’s perspective and realization of her power to manipulate the minds and whims of multiple members of the Senate (another side note: anyone not see Abeloth as Rokari Kem coming? Her first meeting with Workan pretty much confirmed it in my mind). Had this story had some previous foreshadowing or buildup, I might be a bit warmer to it, but the fact that it just springs up like a daisy just makes it frustrating and makes me very happy that Del Rey is moving away from the multi-author high single-digit series.

    BTW, Boba Fett’s appearance on the back cover ended up being kind of funny given the size of his presence in the book. I was actually looking forward to seeing how he’d play a part in the story, so that was disappointing.

    I’ll also admit that usually my memory between books I’ve read is not good enough to pick up the changes in characterization. I rarely noticed in LOTF and it’s still only occasional in FOTJ. I read Conviction and Ascension pretty much back to back, though, so it was rather noticeable this time around. Allston seemed to have Vestara and Ben as the occasionally bantering, mission-first team members for Luke. Golden has them as hormone-driven, love-feeling teenagers that focus on each other more than much else. To be fair, a lot of it doesn’t come until after Vestara gets to have the traumatic encounter of slaying her father, but it’s still a little odd have to Ben as the friendly, but focused young Jedi to having Ves constantly on his mind, even before her major moment of vulnerability. Allana, too, seems to have her 8-year-old tendencies played up in this one, though that might be the influence of the Squibs more than anything else.

    And then, there’s the editing. What happened at the end there? Tahiri’s in the brig then suddenly on the bridge. Kyp’s in his X-Wing but then he’s seemingly walking with them in the Sith city. The heck’s a TIE Destroyer? And I think Jag wanted his fleet to target the Interdictor, not the Interceptor. Usually a single fighter isn’t that much of a threat to a Star Destroyer. OTOH, maybe he’d just read Piett’s biography.

    One last thing. RIP, Padnel Ovin. Like Dyon Stadd, a sympathetic character and ally of our heroes killed before we really got to know him.

    A book big on ideas but amazing on its capacity for plot holes. 5/10
     
  9. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 183/35 = 5.23
     
  10. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2004
    This book.... well there was an entertaining space battle... and... yeah there was the rest of this book. I mean it really seems to be the first book the author actually seems to have the same attitude towards it then I had towards FOTJ, I don’t even care anymore…

    I don’t even feel I need to go into what is wrong with it as others have summed it up rather well before hand.

    2 of 10 from me, and that just for the actually fun space battle
     
  11. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 185/36 = 5.14
     
  12. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    This is a book that just doesn't work. There are bright spots -- much of Vestara's conflict over her status and her decision to become Jedi, and the difficulty she has with that is solid. It's nice to have a book that isn't completely in the rut of doing the same thing over again. Lando appears. Golden is the only one of the authors who really cares about the One Sith as more than just randomly-appearing cannon fodder to throw against Luke, and that's definitely appreciated as it really does help the story.

    But ninety percent of the book just doesn't work. Everything about Luke's plot is bad. He doesn't know where Abeloth is, so he randomly starts going to Sith planets because why the hell not, and Abeloth's not on any of them but she's set traps for him because she figures that that's obviously what he would do. So he has the genius idea to leave Coruscant because obviously the Sith who haven't had any contact with the galaxy or modern technology for five thousand years needed only two years to infiltrate the entire machinery of government and if he takes the Jedi offplanet the Sith will immediately expose themselves somehow by taking over the government like the Jedi can't just come right back or something and he's confident that he'll kill Abeloth even though he doesn't know where she is and just come back and kill all the Sith because now somehow it will be easier than if he'd just not let them take over the government. Even worse, his insane theorizing is right. There are a bunch of Sith senators because this story is determined not to make sense and also they set up a news channel overnight, because apparently a bunch of Sith spent the last two years in ITT Tech or something learning how to be cameramen while some of them got gigs as the galaxy's most sinister weathermen, just waiting to accumulate enough experience in broadcasting to pull off 24/7 cable news, and anyway all these Sith show up and apparently there's like a huge faction of new senators from the maybe a dozen or two planets that got admitted into a Senate that's of thousands but I don't think Golden knows that, and so they get a brand new no one installed because this is obviously just fiction right here and then they elect a no one who has the entire world on fire because she's honest and so apparently that sends career politicians into spasms of ecstasy and oh Jesus **** she's Abeloth why why why why would you ever write this why does this exist please just let me go home. Oh and the coup plotter people who have been around for a bunch of books not quite doing a whole lot but who must be there to do something just kind of die without doing much of anything other than causing just enough minor disturbances to make it look like they did something, except they didn't, they just contributed the illusion of activity before being awkwardly swept aside right when it seemed like they would be most relevant to the narrative.

    Oh and there are Squibs. SQUIBS. In a book already saturated with stupidity, in which no character does anything that approaches making sense, THE SQUIBS COME BACK FOR NO REASON. Ugh.

    Plus domestic violence is invoked as emotional porn which is all kinds of troubling and Luke commends the Jedi Order's massive cluster**** of bad decisions and Daala tries to take over the Empire because sure why not even though that makes no sense in particular and ugh you guys this is too much the book just does not hold together logically anywhere and the characterization is totally unimpressive except maybe for Vestara who's still got issues anyway and in context what it does for the metaplot is a horrible, horrible idea because why would you ever have the GA taken over by the Sith again plus a Lovecraftian space monster horror thing and why the hell would a Lovecraftian space monster horror thing even want to be space president anyway that's so stupid Cthulhu does not run a campaign even though "Vote for Cthulhu" paraphernalia would be hilarious. 2/10
     
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  13. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 187/37 = 5.05
     
  14. The Compeer

    The Compeer Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2013
    Havac, about that "Vote for Cthulhu" stuff:

    [​IMG]
     
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  15. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Not sure if this has been talked about or not but why can't we go back to the links to previous review threads in the first post of previous books?
     
  16. AusStig

    AusStig Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 3, 2010

    Can someone do a version of this 'for PM'?
     
  17. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    The old links aren't good since the move, and now that our search box is completely functional, the threads should be easy to find.
     
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  18. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Okay. Thank you Havac!