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Reviews Books The JC Lit Reviews Special: IMPERIAL COMMANDO: 501st (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Havac , Oct 27, 2009.

  1. Obi-Wan_Ken-Obi

    Obi-Wan_Ken-Obi Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 28, 2005
    Despicable... The continuous spewing of rationalization philosophies and Jedi hate with blatant disregard to all sorts of hypocrisies on part of the haters was so absolutely painful to read that I only made it 2/3 into the book and skimmed through the last 1/3. I appreciate authors who give a slightly biased or biased free approached to the varying cultures in their science fiction novels so I can learn to identify and appreciate aspects of each. But the Karen Travis approached of hate towards any and all force users and any and all sympathizers of force users is agonizing for my brain. And the talk about starting wars and Jedi families and how allowing families forgives all these "sins" the Jedi committed and ignoring the fact that Mandos are thinking these thoughts or supposed wannabe Mandos is such an enormous warped concept I can't begin to understand it... If I murder someone and marry a chick right after and adopt an adult that has a case of the "inner child" I am cleared of all "sins"? AWESOME! The entire book seems a double standard... Whats true and bad for one is not necessarily so for another etc...

    Only "HURRAY!" of the book was Palpatine bio attacking a rebellious planet. I hope he used it next on self righteous unsympathetic Kal Skirata and he's oh so beloved boys... That camp's identity crisis and sappy family atmosphere is a blight upon the galaxy and warps what a true family should be like in my opinion.

    2/10
     
  2. MistrX

    MistrX Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 20, 2006
    This book is pretty much what I had expected. A lot of the same message we've been getting since Triple Zero and like Trip Zip not much happened here. Conversing and angst are abound in the last Mandalorian refuge, Kyrimorut especially at all of the unexpected arrivals they get there. They talk about it, discuss all of the dangers under the new regime, how much trouble they'll be in if they're discovered, and yet I just do not feel it. They don't feel like they're in danger, and really haven't since Triple Zero. They have the Nulls, after all, the apex of all humanity and against those guys and the greatness of the Mandalorian people, what chance does the mighty Galactic Empire have against that? It's a problem when it feels like there's nothing at stake in the story and as far as Clan Skirata goes, that's rather prevalent here. Even Niner and Darman, alone as they are and unhinged as Darman is getting, talk about the ease of deserting for highly trained commandos like themselves, thinking it as nothing more than an extraction out of enemy territory. As the endgame approaches, I'm hoping for something, anything, to convince me these detailed operations are giving the protagonists a hard time. When it doesn't, you just get 400+ pages of talking and lack of plot development.

    On the other hand, there's character development for sure. One could never criticize Traviss for neglecting her characters, but it goes to far when nothing happens as a result. Well, that's not completely fair. Things do develop, they seem literally tacked on at the end. Death Watch makes a sudden reappearance, Darman goes over the edge with his disillusionment and vows to take his son somewhere away from everyone, Jedi, Empire, and Mandos alike. It makes the first 90% seem almost unnecessary, which is not a feeling I want when reaching the end of a novel.

    Even the writing here, something I always give to Karen since she often is a superb writer, seems a bit off to me. I don't know why we needed every Mando phrase followed by a translation in this dialogue, but it makes it feel rather unnatural. Why the need to remind us how Mandalorian this action or that attitude are? It gets grating. I should not be rolling my eyes this often at the text.

    Our protagonists seem to be getting harder and harder to root for. Jusik left the Jedi Order because his morality told him using and exploiting men without their choice is wrong, his respect for life that he learned as a Jedi. Now, though, he angst that not killing innocent people to protect his clan was the wrong decision. I guess that conversion is complete. No one of Skirata's people seem to have any problem with taking out wide swaths of innocents, for that matter, apparently supporting Uthan's plan to drop a deadly virus on Coruscant to get back at Palpatine for wiping out her world.

    Not that it's all bad. The usual Jedi criticism from our POV characters actually gets some counter this time as does Kal and his viewpoints. While in the past, readers could draw their own conclusions, here we finally see people calling Kal out on his actions and Jedi refugees showing they're not all they've been accused of being. And some of the usual criticisms are just silly, which is probably the very reason it's there. Case in point, when Clan Skirata learns about Plett's Well, one character comments on the mistake of the running Jedi to go to one place instead of scattering like the Mandalorians do when they're under threat. As we all know, that's exactly what most Jedi did and in fact that's the message Yoda and Kenobi send to the Jedi in Episode III.

    And some of the look at Squad 40 working in the 501st is interesting. I liked getting to see Rede develop into a green rookiee to a capable commando by book's end. And Darman's decision at the end, potentially making for some actual conflict in the final book, though I suspect by the end he and Kal will have a heart to heart, come to and understanding, and all will be well in the world. Of Ma
     
  3. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 83.7/13 = 6.44
     
  4. colojedi7

    colojedi7 Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Finally I finished Imperial Commando. Not an easy book to slog through.

    The good: Only good thing I found was Maze. He was the only character in this book with enough guts to stand up to Cult Skirata. Finally a clone who can think for himself and is not brainwashed!

    The bad: I am sad to say that other than Maze and the Jedi, I absolutely hated everone else in this book. Which is sad because I originally really like Darman and the rest of Omega squad. I even sort of liked Ordo and the Nulls. But now they are totally brainwashed by Papa Kal and are cold-blooded killers, with no humanity left. Especially chilling was Dar and Niner when they went after that last Jedi. So cold. I have always disliked Kal, but at least he hasn't changed. But the clones who are always dissing the Jedi are too brainwashed to see their actions are much worse.

    The Ugly: The worst character to me is Jusik. He is such a pathetic little wimp. He was taught right from wrong in the Jedi Order, but along comes a thug who tells him Jedi are monsters and he falls over and licks Papa Kal's boots. He wanted a father figure so much he latched onto the first one to look his way. The clones at least have an excuse. They weren't taught any better, but Jusik. Ugh!

    My score: 1/10
     
  5. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 84.7/14 = 6.05
     
  6. Stymi

    Stymi Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2002
    Another fine addition to the series, and an interesting set up for the finale.

    The middle seemed to drag for me. I didn't enjoy it as much as Order 66, but the more subdued tone seemed to fit with post-Order 66/post GAR life for the clones and the Skirata Clan.

    The end made was great. Loved the interaction between Altis and Skirata. I just like Traviss's Altis in general.

    And Darman. Who knows what he's going to do next.

    Great character-driven story-telling by Karen Traviss, as usual.

    9/10
     
  7. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 93.7/15 = 6.25
     
  8. Saber_Leader

    Saber_Leader Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 28, 2003
    It's a quick read, and actually shows the characters doing something other than running from one battle to the next. However, I felt that the book was mostly just filler for IC2 - all in all, nothing really happened. Omega kills a few Jedi, Clan Skirata rescues a few Jedi, and Uthan plays with genes/viruses. It's a nice change when they're not rushing for crisis to crisis, and I enjoyed seeing the development of the clones to the new life outside the army. I just didn't need an entire book about it.

    6.5/10
     
  9. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 100.2/16 = 6.26
     
  10. PadmeA_Panties

    PadmeA_Panties Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 2003
    Where do I begin?
    Oh yea... HORRIBLE.

    Read Havac's post. Then times it by ten for my hatred.

    Would it have been so hard to put a dramatis personae in this? I mean, its been like a year since O66, so I forget half of Traviss's worthless characters anyway.

    And here's a thing, I'm the Empire, looking for a bunch of diserting clones who were all trained by Mandalorian seargents. Where would I look first? Mandalore? Nawwwwwwwwwwww. That would make waaaay too much sense.

    You can tell around the 2/3rds mark that Karen realized there was going to be no IC #3, #4, Fett novel, etc. Tack-on after tack-on keeps happening.

    Whys the novel called IC? Oh yea, to try and get fanboys and the random SW fan who would be interested in it. Is there any IC'ing in the novel? Nope. Oh yea, they kill a "master" (bull), a "knight" (bull), and a criminal. Wow. Exciting. And oh yea, of course, the Jedi die like complete chumps like they do in every Traviss novel. I forget, we're not allowed to have Jedi use obvious Jedi force powers or things that would make sense. "Oh hey, 3 ICs are attacking me, I could just force launch them far away. Naw, I'll run or just bat away their shots." I forgot, this isn't Zahn or basically any Bantam (and even most Del Rey) era writer who actually knew how to write Jedi.


    Rating: 0.5
     
  11. Darth_Monopoly

    Darth_Monopoly Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 6, 2006
    Hmmm....looks like most people either loved this or hated this. I loved it. Most of what I liked can be found in what I posted in the discussion thread, but I'll pretty much sum it up here. I felt the middle of the novel got a little bit bogged down, but once Zey came in I felt it took off again and I loved the final plotlines.

    9.5/10
     
  12. SithStarSlayer

    SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2003
    O my... I almost ruined a new keyboard with spewed coffee when I read that.
    I was all set to write my own NICE and POLITE review but your's took the cake, the pan and torched the whole dadgummed kitchen.

    Forget the ice cream.
    The party was over and the house burnt to the ground down before I even got started.

    Well said Hav, well said.

    EDIT:

    1 out of 10

    Because what I read, felt like it belonged in a DIFFERENT universe, one even FARTHER away than the GFFA.
     
  13. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 111.7/19 = 5.88
     
  14. IllogicalRogue2

    IllogicalRogue2 Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2003
    Being that I read it KNOWING AT THAT TIME there would be a sequel I'd give it a 10 out of 10. I thought it was the best one yet, it went a long way to mend many of the "POV" issues by exploring the characters more, and there were many characters in it. It set up perfectly for a series ender coming up.



    Unfortunately it's ending won't come. Now had I read the book knowing that I may have been harsher. Ok no I'd have been a lot more harsh... But when it came out it WAS going to have a sequel so I judge it based on that.

    So 10 out of 10 for me.
     
  15. Sarkin

    Sarkin Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2010
    I feel...violated by this book.

    Ah, wait. It's not me that's being violated here! It's the coherent structure of the freaking Star Wars universe that's violated. "Udessi, ner vod..." Pfft. I look at the Star Wars EU, and I see two authors who've tried to take the reader's understanding of the Star Wars universe to a different place, Matthew Stover and Karen Traviss. In a very strange way, they both tried to take it to a similar place, where it's the individual's actions count, and the meaning behind the action count too, sorta. They both even used the same writing method to do it, a character-driven story. However, in every way that Traitor brilliantly succeeds, 501st fails. One could argue that both lack considerable plot development. In Traitor, Jacen Solo is a confused pacifist who develops into a confident and wise Jedi. Ganner, a really uncool Jedi, finds himself and dies in a really cool way. That's pretty much it, it's all character-development. As for 501st, NOTHING HAPPENS. Every crisis at the end of the last book is went over again and again and again and again and again and AGAIN, and only in a very hurried and undeveloped conclusion do the main characters reach their decisions over what to do about it.

    "But it's not the plot that matters here, we've agreed to that for the time being, it's the characters! Surely the characters saw a ton of development and all that, right? After all, this tome is weighing in at 430-something pages in the paperback!" Hahaha, no. The glaring lack of character development can be attributed to a few factors. First, there are just too many characters. The missing Dramatis Personae is ridiculous. I just counted using Wookiepedia, there are 58 characters that play a role of some import to either the story, the characters, or the plot (ha!). This isn't counting random droids, named door guards or bartenders, or any of that. More than 50 of those are series-specific, they were either created in this series or most of their 'screentime' and development have been in the series. That's just too much by half. I have a good memory, I could remember virtually all of them, but without Traviss following up nearly every character mention with a quick life summary (Yayax squad, random Mando, ARC unit), I'd've been sunk. I'd love to see an analysis done of how much space she had to use constantly reminding the reader of why the enormous crowd of obscure characters kept around for the occasional mention were important. Add that percentage to slams on the Jedi, praise of Mandalorian culture and Kal Skirata, and finally the self-hate of Jusik, Ordo, Kal, and Ny, and you probably have three quarters of the book, if not four-fifths. Other than frustrating even a diligent reader, what does this sea of characters do? It keeps the author from even attempting to develop more than a few (Kal, Jusik, Darman), leaving the rest to continue commenting on how great Kal is, how evil the Jedi are, and how little they give a damn that Dr. Uthan wants to murder an entire innocent world with probably the highest population of any world in the entire freaking universe.

    Well, let's move on-Wait! That was only the first of three reasons why there isn't any true character development. Second, there's the lack of character individuality. Every character is written pretty much the same way, with the same views and mindset. The only diversity of thought to be found is in the characters Traviss didn't write through, like Maze. Ny is almost an exception to this, but her fits of guilt and self-disgust every time she disagrees with Kal the Almighty show that she doesn't really disagree with him, or if she does, she's willing to change her mind for Papa Kal. The only way to differentiate between characters is the adjectives Traviss uses to describe them. Go on, try reading the book without looking at the names, and guessing which character is which based on adjectives. If you see "devoted", it's Kal. "Loyal" = Ordo. "Paranoid" = Niner. "Charming" = Fi. In the previous b
     
  16. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 122.7/21 = 5.84
     
  17. Darth_Zandalor

    Darth_Zandalor Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 2, 2009
    I have never written a review for any of these novels, so I'll review the series as a whole.
    Well, I have had some issues with this series, but I would be lying to myself if I didn't enjoy these books. Yes they have their flaws, but I truly do enjoy these characters.

    I do think that mixing the mandalorians and the clones together was a mistake in the long run however. Were they two separate series, many of the issues brought to light on these forums might have been averted. The Republic Commando/IC novels could have focused on the hard hitting action that the game was well known for, while the Mando stories could have gone along the way they did, minus the Clones. 501st in particular was much more about the mandalorians than the clones, and could have functioned well as an imperial era story regarding the return of the death watch.

    That being said, I enjoy this series for what it is. A new perspective on the SW universe. Quite welcome among a franchise that over exposes both the Jedi and the Sith to such a degree that I can no longer keep track of who is doing what when. Being a bit of a back alley style series, these books managed to keep away from the major events of the universe and focus on the little guy for a moment. With nothing in this series having any lasting affect on any of the main characters, it can either be taken along with the rest of the canon, or ignored as a side story with no relevance. Were this a perfect world of course where people can be reasonable. But there are always problems.

    I don't even know why I'm posting this. None of this bickering we degrade ourselves to on this forum over anything with regards to
    Karen Traviss will ever accomplish anything, and will just leave all of us bitter and frustrated. The arguments between Fandos, puritans, KT herself, and everyone in between are a perfect example of how ridiculous and pointless online arguments can become. Any attempts at civil discussion always degenerate into high intensity flame fests. Even I cannot be absolved of blame in these debates. I have been a staunch supporter of Karen Traviss's works, and have thrown a lot of retorts back at those who insult her. She has never done anything to me, I willingly bought her novels, and I was entertained by them. That some of us can become insulted so deeply by someone who they have never met baffles me. In a perfect world, we could all accept each others opinions and keep it at that, but it so far hasn't worked.

    I give this series a 7/10. Its a sad shame that more works like this aren't made. It was refreshing to see the galaxy from a new perspective. There are canon issues abound, the Jedi are slapped down a lot, but I don't care. When I read a book, play a game, watch a movie, I go in wanting to be entertained. These books entertained me, simple as that. It is probably my favorite series next to Jedi Academy. I loved republic commando, and Hard Contact launched a great supplement series. It would be stupid to buy something, read it, and then complain about it wasting their time, and how it ruins everything. Oh, wait.. its the internet.

    7/10
     
  18. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 129.7/22 = 5.90
     
  19. Gamer_4_life

    Gamer_4_life Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 16, 2009
  20. RebelJoseWales

    RebelJoseWales Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 10, 2008
    I liked this book. It has its flaws, to be sure, most of them common to Traviss' work, but I still found it quite entertaining.

    In no particular order:

    ~Traviss does a good job of making the GFFA feel like a place where people live and work, rather than just a hodge-podge of impractical and improbable locations conceived as an exotic image, like most SW work does.

    ~The characters tend to be one-note, but that didn't bother me as bad as it might have.

    ~The Mando worship is somewhat irksome, but probably a little bit milder than the Jedi-worship of other books. I suppose the only reason it bothers me at all is the sudden shift from one designated pack of moral exemplars to another.

    ~The too-perfect romantic pairings come off as contrived.

    ~I actually quite liked the lack of action. In this particular respect, it compares to the rest of SW work the way Gran Torino compares to most of Clint Eastwood's work. Yes, the other stuff was built around action, and it was good action, but it's been done enough times that we've seen it all before. A little character exploration, even if it's fairly narrow, is enjoyable if only for its novelty.

    ~The book spends a lot of time pondering morals, and tends to take a slant toward what I'm assuming is Traviss' preferred set. A lot of people don't like that, but I liked this, and enjoyed Starship Troopers and Atlas Shrugged, so I guess I'm just into that sort of thing.

    ~The characters, though they were mostly very similar, went through a good deal of development that I quite enjoyed, such as Skirata's changing views toward Jedi. The prevailing message from this book, at least as I saw it, was that the Old Jedi Order was a group of good people working in a flawed institution. Seeing as the PT gave off similar vibes, I think it ties together quite nicely.

    ~The Spar retcon was unnecessary and detrimental. The City of Bone retcon was unnecessary but highly amusing. All in all, the book comes out ahead.

    ~The whole virus/immunization Denning/Traviss thing is too ridiculous for me to even care.

    ~Traviss has some very notable flaws, but some very notable strengths, too I think. All in all, I don't really understand why she's so polarizing, but I enjoyed her novels and I'm sad to see her go.

    8/10
     
  21. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 137.7/23 = 5.99
     
  22. Valin__Kenobi

    Valin__Kenobi Author: Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Praji star 4 VIP

    Registered:
    Mar 30, 2004
    All aboard the USS Stockholm Syndrome for the Planet of Misfit Toys! Woop woop!

    1/10
     
    Miriedis, Gorefiend and RC-1991 like this.
  23. chiss_man

    chiss_man Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 1, 2002
    The best review for this book is to say it's probably best she's done with the franchise. 3/10
     
  24. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 141.7/25 = 5.67
     
  25. cdgodin

    cdgodin Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 9, 2009