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The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: BETRAYAL (spoilers)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Mastadge, May 27, 2006.

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  1. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 29, 2005
    384.4/44 = 8.74
     
  2. ThrawnRocks

    ThrawnRocks Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2004
    The only characters I imagine like they've really aged are Han, Tycho and Wedge. I also imagine Leia, Iella and Luke to an extent. But since we have only ever seen Mara looking young and beautiful, I'm finding it kind of hard to imagine her aged :p The problem is that the characters still act young :p
     
  3. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 29, 2005
    I see Han as basically being in his fifties, and everyone else is stuck in their forties, NJO-style. The five-year jumps are really rough on this kind of thing. Bantam has the same problem -- you never really get a feel for the fact that "Holy crap, Luke's only 28" or "Wow, Han's over forty by now."
     
  4. Sniper_Wolf

    Sniper_Wolf Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2002
    After a long wait on inter-librar lone, Betrayal arrived at my house. Does Aaron Allston's latest outing rank among the EU greats? I dived head first to find out.

    Consider I could not write this review alone, I acquired some help. Allow me to present Comedy Central's own Stephen Colbert!
    [image=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v220/Sniper_Wolf_the_Warmaster/Betrayal%20review/colbertwritinglarger.jpg]

    How a piece presents itself equals the content. Clerks sounds like a terribe movie on paper, yet Kevin Smith presents the film in a unique fashion that makes it a new classic. From the start Allston shows massive amounts of Revenge of the Sith imagery. The opening scene mirros Anakin's dreams in ROTS, the fighting in the turbolifts on Adumar echo the Battle of Coruscant, and other events in the novel shows a ROTS fixation. Perhaps Allston wished he could have written the ROTS novelization. Anyways, it is obvious Allston strives for ROTS quality.

    However, Allston cannot match George Lucas.

    "Luke sighed and lay down again."(4) On the second page of narration tense error crashes the party. I almost went ape crazy in deep Freudian thought over why the sentence when from past to present. "Luke sighed and laid down again." Now that kicks tense error out of the shindig's doors. Sadly, that sentence foreshadowed Allston's grammar. Here is one of my personal favourites from the novel.

    "He was now dressed in Corellian common citizens' garmets- dark pants and open jack, a lighter, long-sleeved shirt, knee-high boots in black. His long hair hung in a braid."(81) The offensive ending of the first sentence aside, I am perplexed at Zekk's fashion choice. Allston puncuated the sentence paints a visual image of Zekk wearing a lighter Flavor Flav style. So part of the standard Jedi mission garb is a large zippo? Wearing an explodable object on you highly increases the chances of burning alive. It appears Allston wanted "He was dressed in Corellian commoner's garments- dark pants and open jacket; a lighter, long-sleeved shirt; knee-high black boots, and his long hair hung in a braid." Atrocious sentences populate the entire novel. Umberto, the English part of my brain, tried killing himself early when he yelled "How did this get pass the editors!?" Think of all the Umbertos that killed themselves.

    According to my unabridged English dictionary, timid means "lacking in self-assurance, courage, or fearlessness." "'That's what the dream tells me.' Luke hissed in aggrivation."(4) Besides period taking comma's place, the last sentences show how timid Allston's prose is. The previous paragraphs show Luke's anger. The adverb shows Allston's doubting his grasp of Enlgish. Anyone with a basic understanding of English can get the sentence's vibe. If the spoon was put away I would have had a more fun time. Those constant full names scream timid. Here is a little fact about all of the SW films.

    THE PEOPLE IN THE FILMS AND REALITY DO NOT SPEAK IN FULL NAMES.

    Watch the six films in order with your eyes closed. You will hear Master Windu, not Master Mace Windu. Take this passage for example. "Well, she has no family. Yeah, I know that's not suspicious in and of itself. But I still wanted to talk with other Corellians. So I arranged for a holotransmission to Wedge Antilles." (46) That is Han talking to Leia. The Solos have known Wedge for fourty years at that point. They went through hard times together during the Galactic Civil War and the Yuuzhan Vong War. Old friends do not talk about each other in the formal tone. "'You're right,' Luke said. 'If you asked wether you should tell Han and Leia about the Anakin Solo droid, we'd just have to say we don't know.'" No uncle refers to their nephews by both names. That is terrible dialogue, plain and simple. The excuse that "SW always has bad dialogue" broke under the fact that level of schlock is not in the films. Same with this "standard years ago" rubbish. No one talks like that, even people in the films. Del Rey needs to rewatch the films sometime.

    Desc
     
  5. NelanisGhost

    NelanisGhost Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 24, 2006
    Consistency does not appear to be a Del Rey priority.

    Was it ever?

    [face_plain]
     
  6. Drew_Atreides

    Drew_Atreides Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 30, 2002
    ...well, i just finished reading the book...

    And couldn't possibly hope to top Sniper_wolf's review... I had alot of the very same issues (especially with Han and Wedge..AND LEIA!)

    That being said, this *WAS* the most readable Star Wars novel i've picked up in a long time. Yes, it was obvious they were REALLY ripping off of "Revenge of the Sith", but hey.. There were no disgustingly violent Vong, and NO really annoying bugs.

    This actually FELT like Star Wars to me, which is something that hasn't happened in a very long time with the EU novels.

    For that reason, i have to give it a pass.

    It's flawed (oh LORD is it flawed. I still haven't read Allston's X-Wing novels, but how ANYONE could claim that this guys work is among the best of the EU is mindboggling!), but i was able to read it, mostly pain-free.
     
  7. Ive_Got_Two_Legs

    Ive_Got_Two_Legs Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 18, 2005
    What really got me is how Han is suddenly a gung-ho Corellian; Corran isn't; and Wedge's discussion with Thrackan shows that Garm is sided with the Alliance.

    WTF is wrong with Del Rey making character paths that are logical?

    Also, we'll have to wait until Tempest to get anything else, since we know Traviss' books will follow their own plotline.
     
  8. Excellence

    Excellence Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2002

    Just like the Malazan series, then! Book 3 continues book 1, book 4 continues book 2. There's nothing wrong with that. [:D]

    THE PEOPLE IN THE FILMS AND REALITY DO NOT SPEAK IN FULL NAMES.

    Watch the six films in order with your eyes closed. You will hear Master Windu, not Master Mace Windu. Take this passage for example. "Well, she has no family. Yeah, I know that's not suspicious in and of itself. But I still wanted to talk with other Corellians. So I arranged for a holotransmission to Wedge Antilles." (46) That is Han talking to Leia. The Solos have known Wedge for fourty years at that point. They went through hard times together during the Galactic Civil War and the Yuuzhan Vong War. Old friends do not talk about each other in the formal tone. "'You're right,' Luke said. 'If you asked wether you should tell Han and Leia about the Anakin Solo droid, we'd just have to say we don't know.'" No uncle refers to their nephews by both names. That is terrible dialogue, plain and simple. The excuse that "SW always has bad dialogue" broke under the fact that level of schlock is not in the films. Same with this "standard years ago" rubbish. No one talks like that, even people in the films. Del Rey needs to rewatch the films sometime.
    (Sniper Wolf)

    I'm gentleman and Australian, but that just Sithed the Lukes. Finally---I'm not alone in the universe. There . . . there is someone else who finds full names a full frontal offense! The Daleks rise again. [face_mischief]
     
  9. Mastadge

    Mastadge Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 1999
    Counting 46 reviews: 390.4/46 = 8.49
     
  10. NelanisGhost

    NelanisGhost Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 24, 2006
    I'm gentleman and Australian, but that just Sithed the Lukes. Finally---I'm not alone in the universe. There . . . there is someone else who finds full names a full frontal offense! The Daleks rise again

    *shouts from back of room*

    I'm with you, too!

    And I HATE the three name treament for the women.

    Leia Organa Solo. Ya think we haven't figured it out yet? I mean, DUH! That's in case we don't know she was the kid of a child abductor for 18 years.

    Mara Jade Skywalker. Drop the Jade already. It's not even your real name. Get over it. You were no one important in life at all until you married Luke, so drop the "famous surname" BS, because you were NOBODY.

    This is not liberation. It's just stupid. Your last name is your last name. Period. We are not all Hispanics, and we don't need thirty names in any given order on any given day..........

    :rolleyes:
     
  11. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    I figured that was more for the benefit of the readers. Also, Leia Organa is a very famous person, and it's usual for famous women to keep their last name after marriage for recognition purposes. It's also worth noting she just went to Leia Solo after a couple years. And it is perfectly within Mara's independent nature to wish to keep her identity in the form of her name. I see no problem.
     
  12. ThrawnRocks

    ThrawnRocks Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2004
    Actually in Betrayal I noticed Mara just being called Mara Skywalker for the first time that I've ever noticed...
     
  13. NelanisGhost

    NelanisGhost Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 24, 2006
    Sorry.....

    [face_blush]

    I just hate hyphenated names.

    Leia really got famous after marrying Han. She was most notable as a Solo. She's not really an Organa. I really don't like how Bail, Yoda and Obi-wan just summily decided to steal Padme's babies, when her family was right there, and they didn't even bother to tell them what was up. It's really marred Yoda and Obi-wan for me. They did that just to "punish" Anakin, and also to make children fight their battles for them. The Empire was most ruinous to the Jedi. Most citizens didn't really care until much later on, when they had to pay lots of taxes for no return. Kinda like Americans. Leia's been such a pawn. Only now, past middle age, does she do what she wants, instead of what she was indoctrinated to do. Luke is her real family and she's been reunited with him for 45+ years.

    Mara. Oh who cares? Only her. I still do see her as like Ann Margaret though. I really liked her in Betrayal. She finally seems like a true part of the family and not a black sheep Luke has to make excuses for when she's mean. She should have acted that way throughout the NJO. They ACCEPTED her. The defensive thing was so OOC, even after JAT.

    http://www.ann-margret.com/
     
  14. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Just like the Malazan series, then! Book 3 continues book 1, book 4 continues book 2. There's nothing wrong with that. [:D]

    * Except Ex when Erikson does that it works exceptionally well because he knows what he's doing, when someone else does it whose name is not Martin or Donaldson it all goes horribly wrong.

    I'm gentleman and Australian, but that just Sithed the Lukes. Finally---I'm not alone in the universe. There . . . there is someone else who finds full names a full frontal offense! The Daleks rise again. [face_mischief]

    * Have to admit, the full names issue is entirely correct.

    JB
     
  15. Crox

    Crox Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 30, 2006
    I really liked Betrayal. For one, it was a fun book. There weren't any parts that felt especially bogged down. I tend to get a bit bored during space battles, with a few exceptions. Thankfully, one of those exceptions is Allston. Jacen's turn was well done and believable, especially in light of Anakin's "turn" in Revenge of the Sith (the movie, not the novelization). Plus, I actually liked Jaina in this book, which doesn't happen often.

    My main problem with the book was Han and Leia supporting Corellia. I have a difficult time believing that Han had suddenly become a Corellian nationalist, especially with Thrackan in charge. Leia was even worse, betraying a government that she herself had helped set up. I have a hard time believing Wedge would fight against his own daughter, but he wasn't quite as bad as Han. At least he had the excuse of being temporarily imprisoned.

    As an Anakin Solo fan, I appreciated the Anakin Solo droid. Hopefully, it will have some more importance in the future. I liked Nelani, and her death left me surprisingly upset and angry at Jacen. Overall, a great book. Del Rey continues to impress.

    9/10
     
  16. ezekiel22x

    ezekiel22x Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2002
    Superb review, Sniper_Wolf (and I?m not just saying that because you recognize the merit of Alien Resurrection, a film I sometimes feel I alone appreciate.)
     
  17. Ive_Got_Two_Legs

    Ive_Got_Two_Legs Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 18, 2005
    My view is that it suffered a major problem with pacing. The first 100 pages felt extremely rushed, as did the last 70 or so (though to a lesser extent), and there wasn't much really going on in the 200 pages in between.

    And we definitely needed some more backstory, especially over how this wholemess got started (we know Lumiya was involved and it's been going on for over a year, but details?) and the major problem of WHERE'S GARM? Also, if Omas is paranoid enough to try to rig the Jedi Council in DN and to order the arrest of Wedge in Betrayal, I have a hard time believeing he'd allow Corellian Jedi Padawans to be trained by Corellian Jedi Masters on a beligerently-independent Corellia.

    As for ratings, I'd give it a 7/10 at best. It wasn't as bad as it might have been but could have been a lot better.
     
  18. Excellence

    Excellence Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2002

    ThrawnRocks, not the first time. I've seen it sporadic in the NJO, and Mara made it clear she was Skywalker italicised once in SQ.

    I'm polling the taskforce: 4 Literaturites dislike full names thus far.

    Quite right, Ben. But Traviss, aside from the vicious boredom of her conversation-long books, knows what she's doing. I'm sure the Fetts and Mando boys---Sadow forbid we see ladies---will inevitably interact with the prestigious movie names. Can't separate them in between book duos, like Erikson. Pity, though. That's have been interesting. You could get up to two books of it per annumn.
     
  19. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Quite right, Ben. But Traviss, aside from the vicious boredom of her conversation-long books, knows what she's doing. I'm sure the Fetts and Mando boys---Sadow forbid we see ladies---will inevitably interact with the prestigious movie names.

    * Before I had the misfortune to read TZ I would have agreed with you Ex, but as it is...Oh, by the by, what exactly do those lesbian Daleks you mention actually do with thier plungers?

    JB
     
  20. Excellence

    Excellence Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2002

    With their capacity to download the internet, I'm more concerned they'll never pay for books!
     
  21. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    Due to the Del Rey marketing machine, I sense Brisha being Lumiya right off the bat. The Dark Lady's return did not leave a strong impression. Lumiya came off as a poor-man's Kreia. Only the lightwhip seperates Lumiya from her predecessors.

    What, the fact it's an anagram of "Shira B" didn't give it away?

    I enjoyed this far, far more than I enjoyed Dark Nest, and would give it a 7/10. It wasn't great, it set the stage for Jacen's fall, and whilst it had it's flaws it reminded me more of Star Wars than anything non-Zahn I've read since I, Jedi. ;)

    E_S
     
  22. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    413.4/49 = 8.44






    And count me in against full names.
     
  23. Excellence

    Excellence Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2002

    Uh . . . very well.

    Legacy Betrayal: 413.4/49 = 8.44
    Full names dislikers: 5/49 = 10.2
    Excellence, Havac, Jedi Ben, Sniper Wolf, NelanisGhost
     
  24. Kyptastic

    Kyptastic VIP star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 10, 2005
    So this full name thing, is it only when characters say it of people they already know to people that know who they're talking about. Because if it is, then you can add me to that count.
     
  25. wade1972

    wade1972 Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 9, 2005
    I've just finished the book and I have to say I was quite impressed with how Jacen's turn was dealt with. The last section of the book was my favorite, and it's gotten me quite excited for the upcoming ones. I think Ben's going to be safe, but I wonder if Mara's days are numbered. I don't know if they'd kill off Luke just yet.

    I am soooooo happy the Sith are back!

    One thing that ticks me off is that I'm sure the hardcovers will contain the "big events" and the pocketbooks will be "minor events".

    I'd give the book a 8/10.
     
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