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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Reviews Books The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: INVINCIBLE (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Havac , May 13, 2008.

  1. Robimus

    Robimus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 6, 2007
    I've contributed some thoughts in the "spoiler" thread so I'll try to be as brief as I can in here.


    Darth Caedus came across very strong early in this book. That part I really enjoyed along with the further expansion of the Imperial Remnant. Han and C3PO were both a lot of fun to read, captured really well by Mr. Denning.

    The book turns bad for me in a hurry though. The Nanokillers essentially give the Imperial Remnant a heel turn I was completely dissapointed with. All of Ben's "sexy" scenes were totally out of place and poor. Creepy..........

    Jaina killing her brother didn't quite have the emotional impact I would have liked it to. Then Jaina decides she'd rather leave Zekk lost in the mists than grab a ship and go looking for him. Han thinks Daala's "not that bad". Niathal is absent from the book, as is the Confederacy. It really shouldn't be up to the fan theory to decide what happened to all these characters. Thats the job of the authors.

    The deaths of Isolder and Shevu served very little purpose, esspecially with Tahiri redeemed a few pages later in the Shevu case. Caedus even has a moment of redemption before death. Allana ends up with Han and Leia. Well atleast she got a few years with her mom.....Anakin, Jacen and Jaina didn't even have that.(And if you doubt me reference The Crystal Star, The New Rebellion, etc.)

    Every villian in the universe got offed in this series with the exception of the One Sith who appeared earlier for no real reason.

    And to top it all off, Tarfang wasn't in this novel.:(

    Score: 3/10



    At times I found this series to be very good(Bloodlines, Sacrifice and Inferno), but overall I think I expected and hoped for more of a spring board to greater things than the neatly packaged, predictable story we ended up with.
     
  2. beccatoria

    beccatoria Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2006
    I really have no idea how to even begin this review. The book provoked a very strong reaction in me, but whether or not I liked it, I find hard to tell. Whether or not the reaction I had was the reaction Troy Denning intended, I also find hard to tell.

    It's a very, very spare book, and with the exception of the epilogue, I think that works in its favour. There is nothing here that doesn't need to be here. Vader's surviving grandchildren and Tahiri - standing in for the loss and empty space left by Anakin Solo; every move on her journey informed by it - dance through the story, hunting each other and saving each other and killing each other.

    And Luke... Luke is where I really don't know where to start. With his eyes, blazing white? With dialogue that ends in, "mine...mine," in a totally different context but verbally identical to his sister's vision, all those years ago, of a Sith Lord trying to steal her children for the darkness?

    Truthfully, I don't think Denning was trying to foreshadow Luke's descent into darkness. I'm not interested in that story because it would have to end with his redemption and that would be cheap, especially in the face of past stories such as Dark Empire.

    But at the same time, for the first time in my EU-reading career, I believed there was a darkness, haunted and driven about Luke.

    I think that I saw in him Paul Muad'dib or Leto II from the DUNE series. Not a meglomaniacal evil overlord, but a tyrant. A title and an attitude that does not exist in the light/dark Jedi/Sith duality of the galaxy and so I...can't parse it properly in the context of the novel.

    I don't know. I just don't know.

    I know that Jacen Solo originally began this path because he turned around and murdered a friend because he couldn't see a future in which she survived that did not also include him killing his Uncle Luke.

    I know it's easy to say, "Luke would rather have died than seen Jacen as a Sith Lord."

    But how can we answer the question: What sort of future is it where it's better that Jacen end up killing Luke? How would that ever have come about? Was Jacen always destined to become dark, or did Luke need killing?

    I know that Luke is repeatedly portrayed in this novel as detached and intimidating. Is explicitly compared to a dejarik player - not in a tactical and practical sense, but from the perspective of his niece, the pawn. And what is the player to the pawn? The hand of god: nigh onmniscient, inscrutable, allpowerful.

    I know that I was infinitely and hugely relieved when I saw Jaina turning a critical eye on the Mandalorians, questioning their attitudes more roundly than she did in the last novel, choosing to discard their attitudes when she felt to keep them would stop her from being a Jedi.

    Repeatedly, Jaina makes choices to save people she "shouldn't" for cold, practical reasons. Or to try and save them. To jeopardise herself and her mission for Ben, for her parents, for dying Verpine she's never spoken to before. And these traits are good, positive things.

    And she ignores the Mandalorians when they tell her not to bother.

    And she ignores Luke.

    When - in his Blazing Eyes moment - he tells her the collateral damage and lives aren't hers to worry about. Or lectures her on attachment and killing while angry before dropping her into the space battle in her dropsuit.

    But Jaina is not Luke and Jacen is not Lumiya, and Luke's message seems horribly pointed and self-conscious, because Jaina isn't the one who has ever been looking forward to running Jacen down.

    And Luke is...inhuman. Not dark. I loved his smackdown of Boba, pointing out that Boba tried to use the Jedi as badly as the Jedi used his troopers.

    But I do feel that there's something unsettling and nauseous about Jaina having to treat her Jedi advice with the same kid gloves as the advice she receives from Boba Fett. Because that's what she does, in her dropsuit, on the battlefield. Make her own calls. Expressly ignore Luke's instructions the first time and follo
     
  3. GoA

    GoA Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 7, 2007
    As a stand alone novel, I would likely score this book high. The writing was top notch, and I found myself unable to put the book aside, instead choosing to turn page after page, and kept telling myself "just one more chapter", every time I had decided it was time to put it aside.

    I've always been a Jaina Solo fan, so I was glad to see her get a "starring" role for once in this series. No, I'm not talking the Jaina we got in Revelation, where she just sat around nodding dumbly at everything the God-like Mandalorians said to her. I'm talking about the Jaina Solo that has her own mind, but who has also matured enough to see the wisdom in advice that others have given her. I'm talking about the Jaina Solo that understands her weaknesses, but also isn't afraid to act on her strengths. I'm talking about the Sword of the Jedi we've been promised for a while now.

    The duels between Jaina and her brother were well done. Sure, some of the injuries they sustained might be a bit over the top, but overall, Denning did a fantastic job of describing the fights. The first one I'd rank better, simply because it was longer, and simply because it displayed more of Caedus' power. But both did the job, although I'm docking minor points for Caedus not seeming as uber-powerful the second time around. Maybe it was his injuries, or maybe it was his distraction over the nanokillers and his daughter being affected by them. But he just didn't come across as powerful as he was in round one of their battle.

    The scene, when she kills him, and she cradles him in her lap ... it got to me. It was at that point that I was able to put aside my disdain for much of this series, and actually just say "Wow ... that is so sad." The scene was well-written, and it was truly one of the few tear-jerkers that this entire series had. Mara's death doesn't count, for me, as a tear jerker, because it seemed such a silly and meaningless death.

    Speaking of Caedus, this is the Darth Caedus we should have had throughout the series. I've been very vocal in my disdain for the direction they (the authors/editors) took him after about book 3, and found myself often frustrated, bordering on furious, with the Saturday morning cartoon villain he had become. But this book, this was how I pictured a powerful Sith Lord to be. The Caedus from Betrayal and Invincible would have been an absolute pleasure to read about over the course of a 9-book series. It's just too bad that for roughly 6 or 7 of those books, we got Wile E. Coyote.

    Ben Skywalker has grown on me. At the beginning of the series, he annoyed me. I know, I know, I was probably being too hard on a barely-turned-teenager, but his naive attitude, following his idol Jacen around, doing whatever he was told by Jacen, and acting like an obnoxious brat to his parents (more so to his dad), made me want to wish someone would kill him off. But as the series went on, Ben started to get better. And in Invincible, Ben seemed to be one of the few Jedi to "get" what being a Jedi meant. I know he was referring to Tahiri, not Jacen, but when he questioned when do you know when someone can no longer be redeemed, and when he simply would not take an answer at face value, that to me illustrated the problems I had with the Jedi in this book. IMO, Ben was the only one who acted 100% like a Jedi throughout the novel.

    Which brings me to Luke. On one hand, I did love his powers in this book. Finally, FINALLY, we got to see a powerful Luke. Finally, we got to see a decisive Luke, who was proactive pretty much from the get go. So, that much, I enjoyed about him. But what put me off, was just how ... distant, how cold he seemed. I honestly don't know how to feel about a Luke Skywalker that acted so ... I can't even really describe it. I just hope this isn't a foreshadow to him going Dark. I know Del Rey seems to like to rehash ideas, but turning Luke dark again would probably be the nail in the coffin for me ever buying another Star Wars book.

    With regards to the rest of the Jedi Master (and Jedi in
     
  4. iolo_the_bard

    iolo_the_bard Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 18, 2005
    Well, I'll keep my review somewhat short and relatively to the point. I regret that my thinking style is basically a storm of tangential chaos, so I don't have everything as neatly divided as most other reviews do.

    My biggest complaint about this book was the length. The no-nonsense, tell the story approach was wonderful until the ending. I'm not sure if Denning was operating under a page limit or something, but the book seemed to cram 100 pages of story into about 50 toward the endgame. Everything was perfunctorily wrapped up in a bow...a rather sloppy bow. For example, what the sith is up with Daala....or must we now call her Natasi? I like what her character has become over the course of Revelation and Invincible, but it seems rather out of the blue that the people of the New Republic would forget what she did in the past. I know the New Republic and later the GFFA accepted Imperial defectors into the military and political system, but the Admiral who was in charge of the Maw installation?? Well, maybe in the post-LotF novels it will make more sense.

    Moving on to Jacen, I'm SO glad that this is how he went out. As crazy as he was in Revelation, I honestly wouldn't have been all that surprised if he had died because he thought he was so powerful he could breathe vacuum and stepped out an airlock. Caedus here was a much more balanced character. His delusions of omnipotence didn't make him stark raving mad as they did in Revelation, and Denning finally managed to reconcile the "I love Allana" and "I must not love Allana" parts of his personality.

    Speaking of Allana, why did Tenel Ka give her to the Solos? I think the move has great potential, but I don't really understand why it was made...kinda bad for a book.

    The introduction of Tenel Ka's cousins was abrupt, makes good setup for future stuff but, rather like the Hallows in Harry Potter, not the kind of thing you want to dump on readers in the final book of a series.

    I'm so glad that the Mandos were finally used by someone else besides Traviss, but as much as I wanted to see them have weaknesses...its just really inconsistent. Traviss had beskar be the EU's version of Unobtainium, invincible and known only to Mandos. As overpowered as it was, that was how it was. Now with Denning describing beskar being breakable (not just by shatterpoint, but also by simple laser blasts, grenades, etc.) it just rather jarring.

    Shatterpoint was a great introduction, but seemed misinterpreted. I have NO problem with shatterpoint being used to break physical material, but there was only one throwaway line to shatterpoint being used on situations. Also, after Jaina learned shatterpoint, I don't recall her ever needing to use it. It would've been nice if in the final dual with Caedus if she had known the moment of the final strike because she saw the shaterpoint of the situation.

    Luke was...odd in this book. I like the direction his character is going, but the fact that he can casually say "Oh, by the way, I know shatterpoint...wanna learn?" was kinda Deus ex machina-ish.

    Speaking of Deus ex machina, how 'bout that nanovirus? So it has a 100% effectivness, can be tailored to species or individuals, can attack on a whim, and is irreversible. Also can be produced overnight. I think I've said enough on that.

    Great moments:

    -Luke letting Han vent on the Moffs
    -Jedi council already deciding that Jaina is the one that will hunt down Caeuds
    -Explanation of flow-walking

    Not so great moments:
    -Tahiri's seduction scene (I think Denning didn't do the math on Tahiri's age)
    -Daala becoming CoS
    -The endi

    (see what I did there?)

    Moments that should have been
    -Wrap-up on the civil war
    -Resolution with Tycho and the Antilles family
    -Mention of the One Sith

    My score of Invincible is a 6.75/10. A good book with some wonderful moments, but the abrupt ending, the plot points that weren't touched, and the number of "Bwuaaa?" moments drags the score down a bit. Also, I know this isn't Denning's fault, but the incongruity between the styl
     
  5. AnnLouise

    AnnLouise Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 10, 2005
    Could there be a thread rating the entire LOTF series; I think it'd be interesting, and wonder how the whole series would rate as opposed to single titles.
     
  6. NewStaryknight

    NewStaryknight Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2007
    How can Luke be acting inhuman and not be acting dark? I don't know why we're worrying about this. To me, Luke proved he still had his values in tact when he told Han that it wouldn't really do any harm to kill one or two Moffs, but then asked, "Will it make you feel any better?". Luke of course knew the answer but wanted to see if Han knew as well.
     
  7. Sauron

    Sauron Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 20, 1999

    I'll have to give this book a 3/10.

    It was pretty obvious they rushed it out. I found a typo right in the first chapter. The whole LotF series felt like they had something more epic in scope, then it dragged right in the middle by making Jacen the main bad guy. The other Sith haven't even been mentioned in the last 3 books. This novel was really just one long, rushed ending, especially the epilogue.

    Fel being placed as leader of the Remnant makes NO sense, nor does Daala leader of the Alliance. Where are their credentials? Daala is a war criminal who has been in exile forever. Fel was just a line soldier; would have been much better for him to propose to Jaina and have them go off and live somewhere quietly.

    The fight between Jaina and Jacen wasn't very epic. I was just glad that he was finally dead in the end. I do not believe he redeemed himself in the end. One small act of goodness doesn't make up for a heart that was 99% evil. He had to die for the good of the galaxy.

    Tahiri has been TOTALLY out of character the last two books. She went to total evil in such a short time.

    What is the deal with the good guys not being willing to kill the bad guys? Ben should have killed Tahiri when he escaped her torture. She had just murdered his best friend and was trying to kill him. Why can you slaughter countless stormtroopers and others on the way to the enemy leader, but when you reach the leader himself you either have to capture him or LET HIM GO?!! This is WAR, people! Things don't happen that way in real life! We don't wipe out every terrorist in sight but take every possible effort to capture Bin Laden using non-lethal means. If we have a chance to take him out, we will take it! That is life!

    That goes double for the Moffs. They would have been captured by the Hapans and tried for war crimes, most likely executed. Luke yet again proves unable to do what is good for the galaxy.

    In a sense, the Light side is far more twisted and evil than the Dark side. If you let an enemy live and they go out and slaughter more people, then YOU are inadvertently responsible for their deaths. What, is the life of a Force-sensitive more important than thousands of other people? The Jedi think they are superior to normal beings? The Light-siders are just as cruel and evil in the end than any Dark-sider. It's all well and good if you're redeemed from the dark side, but you still have to pay for your crimes. The law is the law. Tahiri will be going to jail for the rest of her life, as will the Moffs - if they're not executed for war crimes.

    In all, a fast read but a disappointing end to a series that started out with lots of promise.



     
  8. NewStaryknight

    NewStaryknight Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Luke didn't really shake his head. He admired Ben for it. He's just doesn't think its possible for Jacen because he denies redemption multiple times in the previous books. Luke hasn't given up his old philosophy entirely.
     
  9. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    =D=

    That is what happened. It wasn't the back and forth between insane, it was Jacen crossing the threshold beyond madness and finding sanity. And that's terrifying, in and of itself. A Sith Lord that, fundamentally, loves. It's as if Padme never died, and Vader continued with her, alive, albeit not on his side.

    Here's my review:

    I agree with all the statements. It is rushed. Tahiri is yucky. It is a mildly confusing ending. Daala and Jag and the Imperial Mission are incredibly slapped on additions. 'Thunderous Applause' is worrying. The entirety of Luke's scene's are chilling. Jacen is downright unstoppable. His redemption hits a cold place inside your heart and makes it churn. The Confederation should have been explained. Niathal should have been in it.

    I'm surprised Bwua'ta, Darklighter and Celchu remained on Caedus' side. But, then again - I'm not surprised. Celchu was an Imperial. Bwua'ta made a vow. Darklighter has knocked heads with Jedi in the past.

    But, isn't the ending what LotF made it to be?

    In a Jedi Coalition made up of Daala's Maw Irregular fleet by circumstance and not choice, including the Co-Chief-of-State Niathal who deposed Omas and dutifully handed a Sith Lord the keys, and then of course involving Wookie's and Jedi, both of which are persecuted and on the verge of complete genocide at varying moments during this war -

    In a Confederation made of Corellians and Bothans willing to use secret assault fleets, condone assassination, condone a starbuster being used, murder a sovereign Queen and her daughter, engineer a galactic war to make themselves independent -

    In a Galactic Alliance which supports the genocide of the Wookies, the destruction at Fondor, and the command of a madman -

    With an Imperial Remnant led by Moff's whom we hate but are key to the entire entity not splitting off into a dozen civil wars that would make this war eternal -

    With the Mandalorians led by a ruthless Mandalore that is playing several tiers above his weight and expecting his pure ferocity and murderous objectives to succeed -

    With the Dark Lady of the Sith taking a genuine conflict and spinning it into a galactic war while training her apprentice to win it, but literally sacrificing herself in a completely opposing Sith mentality -

    How could the end be anything but confusing, and anything more than a resolution that simply said -

    We no longer want to fight.

    When everyone who did - Sal-Solo, Caedus, Niathal, Gejjen, Sadran, countless others - is dead?

    I can't argue with the characterisation, with the style, with the story.

    I'll admit, Star Wars should not have used syringes stuck in Jacen's face. It's too horrific to entertain. As is blood gushing from Jacen's arm, or the tendon on his leg being snapped bloodily, or Jaina's arm revoltingly snapping, or a cut releasing something from inside her she'd rather not think about.

    For the brutality of the book, and that alone, it loses points, but everything else is so uncertain, and so unpleasant, and so powerful, that it receives a 9/10. I hate the ending, and I love it entirely.
     
  10. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 277.74/37 = 7.51
     
  11. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Wow, so, yeah, just finished the book... I had to blurt out a loud "WHAT THE FRELL?!" at the whole Daala thing, and I'm a little disappointed Caedus doesn't live to be a threat or lost pentinent, but overall the book had a great pace and a very focused plotline. The majority of characters were done justice- even Tahiri's situation is starting to recover, even if her fall was unbelivable to me in Revelations.


    I think my only true disappointment with the book is that Niathal is kinda swept under the carpet after being built up all series-long and finally being somewhat heroic in the last book. But her forces are defeated in an offscreen moment referred to offhandedly. I was really let down by that. Also Daala didn't really play much of a role in this at all after her introduction last book, and I would have expected at least some Daala subplot to justify her COS appointment at the end- but her presence is sorta just outta left field. Poor Niathal. It just feels like there was a Niathal/Daala subplot excised from the story.

    Overall, like most of Denning's books, the pace and intensity make it a real page turner, so it's definitely a really good read, and it has several poignant moments...though it feels a bit anticlimactic, unfortunately. It's not a TUF. But still pretty solid, but I gotta deduct points for it's function within the series.

    However, [face_laugh] @ Battlesun Odyssey :D


    8.5/10
     
  12. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    I have to say, having some time behind reading it . . . I'm rather disappointed. The writing was enjoyable, it was a fun little adventure . . . but as the end to a nine-book series, it wasn't up to snuff. The Confederation . . . just not there. Niathal . . . just not there. The whole setup of the big picture in Revelation, with the Jedi joining Niathal's splinter GA was completely ignored. Niathal was utterly ignored. Daala was ignored until the complete WHAT THE HELL moment of her CoS promotion. Wedge was ignored. Instead of integrating the Mando-Verpine alliance as I expected for a satisfying role . . . they just kind of hung out. All the setup of an actual resolution was ignored so that we could have about three commando missions, a fleet battle, and then Jacen's dead and all magically turns to confetti raining down from the sky and the five or so factions just decide offscreen that ain't peace great. Total letdown.

    I'm not even sure what to think about Caedus's fate, so I'll leave that off. I liked the way he was written -- the scene where he confronts the moffs could have been Vader. He was great here. Ben was enjoyable, even if his being a knight was silly. Women hitting on him was . . . creepy. Not cool. Denning has too big a tendency to indulge himself with these sort of weird bits, and it just comes off as odd.

    So overall, a book that was fun to read . . . but just not very satisfying.

    6.5/10
     
  13. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 292.74/39 = 7.51
     
  14. WraithLead

    WraithLead Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2001
    I gave it a 7/10, so almost the same score, but for slightly different reasons. it makes me wonder how an overall LotF series rating affects individual feeling about the book. Like, if you loved the series, did this book being a letdown as you describe make you rate it lower, whereas I wasn't really into the whole series, so it not being satisfying wasn't a big deal to me, therefore, i can rate the book higher.
     
  15. Smin

    Smin Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    Just finished reading it. I'm going to have to go with the majority and say that even though it was an entertaining read, I didn't like how the ending was done. I was also surprised that there was no dialog between Jaina and Jacen during either of the fights. I thought he would be trying to seduce her to the Dark Side or something. I didn't find that disappointing, just surprising.

    Going to give it a 7.0/10
     
  16. SithGirl132

    SithGirl132 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 6, 2005
    I'd like to begin this review with saying I've never had such strong emotion overall about any book. And I've never cried so much over any book, either.

    I was very much anticipating Invincible, since it seemed that this would be the real action-packed one with all the surprises. Well, I was certainly surprised. Caedus' death was something that I knew was going to happen, but didn't want to acknowledge, and it was certainly terrifying. Daala's promotion to Chief of State was quite the bombshell; in the past she has stated she doesn't want political power, and now... oh well, it must be for the better?

    The ending resolved itself a little too quickly and cleanly. I don't like how suddenly, everyone likes each other now that Caedus is dead, and everything will go back to normal or some reasonable facsimile thereof. That could have been done better.

    I did like Denning's technique of making it seem like a character was dead and later re-introduces them alive. I was terrified that Allana really was dead, so it was a nice surprise to see her alive again at the very end. The general flow was great,a long with the constant tense moments.

    Yes, it could have been better, but LOTF was not the best of SW literature... 8/10.
     
  17. s65horsey

    s65horsey Otter-loving Former EUC Mod star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 24, 2006
    I loved the first 2/3 of the book. I thought it was well written, the characterizations were good. I loved seeing Artoo and C3PO back and involved in some capacity. I enjoyed the Jacen jokes at the beginning of each chapter and the contrast between those and how Jacen is now. That was an excellent tool used by Denning, imo.

    Leia/Jaina/Ben mission - enjoyed this part, though Ben still isn't acting like a Jedi completely which I guess makes him unique, but the hero complex in that respect is going to get old fast for me.
    Jedi Council - loved seeing the interactions between the characters. I think this was my favorite part of the book because Denning was able to incorporate a lot of characters for this part and the missions. It is always nice to see people mentioned who should be. (Minor complaint about the new "Derek" Jedi Knight, we have plenty of others who could have been used including Valin, Jysella, and the ones in Betrayal.) I like how the Council was shown to be wise and powerful in that they predicted Jaina's request and had already discussed things.

    Jaina/Jacen duel #1 - I thought this was good. I liked how powerful he made Jacen and I loved the idea of Luke using visions against him in order to bring him down. The technique of thinking he was fighting Luke was something different for the story (unless this has been done in comics, if so please tell me). Employing different tactics to bring down a Sith was interesting and needed. I do wonder why Jaina wasn't told about this though. Could she have ruined it if she had known? Was it necessary to keep a secret from her?

    Ben's Captivity - like I stated above, I hated this part. Tahiri was never a Sith, she was pretending, imo in order for the Anakin thing. Because of this notion, which was again reinforced throughout the book with her actions and hesitants, I don't think she ever should have tried to seduce a 14 year old. That sickened me while I was reading the book. I don't think I have ever been disgusted like that before while reading a SW book. I dislike Shevu being killed off as he was an interesting character and one of Ben's only friends. I enjoyed Ben's escape though.

    Leia/Han - loved them in this book. I think they were acting like they should have and I enjoyed their working with Luke and acceptance of what needed to be done. They have been written to be accepting of this for many books now, so I was glad to see that hadn't changed.

    Luke - I loved this mysterious, grandmaster Luke. I think he did well to respect Ben's wishes at being treated like any other Jedi Knight and trusting in the force that he'd be able to take care of himself. Luke showed great cunning and poise in the face of the Sith and was able to outmaneuver him with those ideas. I think before I would've been ok with seeing Luke step aside, but if he's continued to be written in this capacity then I want him to stay around. I've only skimmed a few reviews after typing this up, but felt the need to add that I find it interesting people don't like this Luke. I didn't like the whiny Luke, but a cunning grandmaster, oh yeah, this is what I've always wanted.

    Last 1/3 of the book was something else entirely and not in a good way:

    Jaina/Jacen round 2 - This is where the book falls short imo. This duel has been coming since book 1 when he court marshaled Jaina and possibly further back because the Vong wanted it during the NJO. I was disappointed at how short it seemed while reading the book. I also was disappointed that the entire rest of the book set out to show that Jacen was irredeemable, completely, totally, no questions asked and then at the last minute bobbled and made it kinda gray. I don't think Jacen was redeemed. I agree with those that say he was still somehow doing that for himself or out of selfishness. This ending almost ruined the book for me though. I was so excited about this book and hoping for a Jacen death and to have him be a bad guy, but in this capacity he's almost like Vader again, which I didn't want. At the last minute he sacrificed hims
     
  18. tjace

    tjace Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 11, 2008
    I liked this book. Within the first few chapters, Denning fixed all the characterization problems with Jaina and the Mandos. Jaina is wary of them, and does not take everything Fett says as true or right. The Mandos are portrayed as the mercenaries we always knew they were, and the Jedi do not idolize them. I was so tired of hearing about them, but when Luke, Han and Leia used the Mandalorians and talked back to all that "what about the clones?" stuff, I was relieved.
    Jaina is finally the Sword of the Jedi in this book. She is in no way equal to Caedus' power, but manages to keep attacking until Luke's help takes effect. The seduction scene with Ben was creepy, but he was a good character IMO, and not focused on for 200 pages. The battle scenes were good, and most everything was spot-on. Even the abrupt ending wasn't too bad because I was still dwelling on the fight, and Denning quickly wrapped up his ugly loose ends.

    The length was a small problem: this was supposed to be a grand finale, and while the 299 pages felt like it, it didn't bring everything from the whole series together. And while everyone else might automatically throw down their guns and sing kumbaya, the Corellians never would. They are one of the most stubborn cultures in the EU, and they are not about to back down and go peacefully when that same stubbornness was the reason they started the war. It should be easier to negotiate before the conflict than in the middle when it's at full swing. The death of one man, even a Sith Lord, should not be a deus ex machina in a cultural conflict like this. Also, the shatterpoint: while it was really cool, neither Jaina nor Caedus used it during the second duel, which left me wondering why Denning had her learn it in the first place.

    Overall, this was a very good read and I will give it an 8.5
     
  19. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 324.74/43 = 7.55
     
  20. King_of_Red_Lions

    King_of_Red_Lions Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 28, 2003
    I'll take Han and Leia's advice and believe that Caedus is not Jacen. My Jacen died fighting Omini. He was a hero. I love this character and his philosophy and his powers and I hate it that he devolved into a megalomaniac. I believed Lumiya's assertations and in the Truth of the Tassels and Jacen's grander destiny and the concept that a Sith need not be evil to rule. I suppose I was as naive as Jacen. Though Denning characterized him somewhat better in this novel - it is tragic what happened to his character. I wish it had been Jaina instead because the Solo name ends here, folks. Seriously, if I had been at the round table discussion batting around names of who should fall, I'd suggest Jaina - or another minor character.


    I believe there will be consequences of the Council's decision to murder Caedus. Jaina, especially, is in danger of falling - her Manalorian training skirts awful close to the dark side. The body count around Jaina's mission to assassinate Caedus was impressive. She sliced four innocents in half with one swipe of her saber on the Anakin Solo. She slauhtered one dozen Stormtroopers while infiltrating Nickel One simply because it was necessary to ensure the secrecy of her mission. Almost on the same page, she rationalizes sparing a squad of Mandalorians because it is not Jedi-like to kill people because their presence is an inconvenience. Where was that Jedi-like mercy on the previous page? She killed guards and soldiers without a second thought. Wake up, folks - who killed more people in this novel? The evil, maniacal Lord of the Sith who cannot be allowed to live? Or the self-righteous, hypocritical Sword of the Jedi?

    Fett is banned from Mandalore? Priceless. Karen Traviss must hate that - along with some of the other things Denning wrote about Fett, i.e, being out of his league matching wit and cold calculation with Luke Skywalker. One question about the nanovirus - Wouldn't it kill anyone with Jango Fett blood? There are probably many descendents of clones in or around Mandalore, including Venku. And what keeps it from hopping aboard a spaceship and spreading across the galaxy?

    Hard Covers in the NJO were epic: SBS 600+ pages, TUF 500+, DW 450+ - This book was too short and had an incomplete ending - there was almost no resolution except personally between Jaina and Jacen. Denning's previous effort in the LOTF series, Inferno, was also very short. Is this the same man that brought us SBS?

    Jacen dying near an incinerator created an opportunity for a traditional SW-funeral pyre - Denning did not take advantage. I especially enjoyed the imagery of the dark and light portions of the room and Jacen and Jaina dashing and dancing between the two. I for one couldn't tell you which of the yin-yang twins was the light-sider and which was the dark-sider.

    I am fascinated by the Tatooine Ghost vision and what it means, exactly.

    I believe Tahiri should have ran.


    Daala is guilty of more atrocious crimes than Caedus but the general population - including the Jedi - accept her with open arms? Because she can't use the Force doesn't mean she should be trusted with the reins of the galaxy. And the Correlians give up just like that? Caedus wasn't the driving force behind the war. The war came first. His death does not change the principles behind which Corellia and her allies defected in the first place. I don't buy the peace.


    There were many things I was disappointed in and surprised by in this book. Overall, I had a great time reading it despite its shortcomings as a finale. It was written well like all of Denning's SW novels.

    6.5/10
     
  21. canadianjedimama

    canadianjedimama Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 28, 2008
    I've been trying to write a review for this book for close to three weeks, but I just can't figure out what to say or exactly how to say it.

    I just want to give Becca's review a huge =D= . I feel very much the same way, although I'll never be able to express it so well.

    But it bugs me that I haven't typed this up every time I flick over to Lit, so here it goes:

    I LOVED this book. And I hated it. It shocked me, made me laugh and made me cry. I finished it and just sat there holding it, wondering WTK?

    And that was awesome.


    THINGS I LOVED: Jaina's newfound sense of maturity. It was nice to see her actually act like a 30 year old woman who knew what she was about, instead of a spoiled selfish teenager.

    Leia was just totally badass in her undercover mission with Ben and Jaina. It's taken 40 freakin' years, but she's finally coming into her Jedi heritage. Praise the Force!

    Jacen, still insane but not crazy. That coupled with his truly frightening repetoire of Force Tricks was absolutely fantastic.

    The Jacen/Jaina duels were absolutely wicked. The ferocity with which they were written is chilling. There is no doubt at all from the first line that these are battles to the death. My mouth was literally hanging open reading them.

    Luke Skywalker's badassery knows no bounds. I love that he's not wallowing anymore. Yee Haw!



    THINGS I HATED: That all that space battling and political intrigue from the previous novels was dropped like a hot potato. Dammit! Why did I have to read all that if it was only going to be a "Oh well, this is what happend" line in the final book. A bit of a "grrrr" moment for me. And I'm not even a Fleet Junkie.

    The whole Ben/Tahiri...thing. I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that it was nothing more than a ackbasswards attempt to showcase the depth's of Ben's moral centre, how he was never in any real danger of fall into the darkness, but sheesh...I can't read the bloody thing without hearing "Mrs. Robinson" playing through my head. And that just ain't right. I think I would have preferred Ben back in the Embrace of Pain than that...but meh.

    Luke Skywalker's badassery knows no bounds. Yeah, you're reading this right, I both hated and loved Luke in this book. I'm glad he's not all emo anymore BUT I find it hard to reconcile the farmboy from ANH to the coldly calculating and manipulative Jedi Master we have here. The ruthlessness with which he just...decides...how the galaxy should be run. A tiny bit too much like old Palpy for my taste. Only without the wrinkles. *shudders*

    The Death of Jacen Solo. Yeah, you're reading this right, too. I didn't want Jacen to die. I think it was a huge cop out on the part of the editors to do this. There was soooo much more potential in leaving him alive. Stripped of the Force, vulnerable, badly beaten, incarcerated...whatever. But ALIVE. Was it too much to ask? Apparently. *sigh*


    WHAT SHOCKED ME: The graphic nature of the duel scenes. Denning is a master of writing the fight scene in Star Wars. Hands down. But Jacen springing up like Hellraiser during the final fight with Jaina. Dude...I almost tossed my cookies. I don't think that was quite necessary. Unless of course he was trying to match Jacen's outward appearance with the state of his soul, then well...okay. But I think that I'm probably reading too much into it there.


    WHAT MADE ME LAUGH: Leia "charming" her way through the crowd during the Coruscant mission. And Jaina wondering what her sixty year old Mom has got that she doesn't...how long a list do ya want, Jaya?

    Jaina propositioning both Jag and Zekk after her head injury...priceless.

    And the Battlesun Odessy reference...very funny.


    WHAT MADE ME CRY: The little jokes of Jacen's and the flashbacks to the YJK were poignant and heartbreaking. How far he's fallen...broke my heart. Jaina, realizing at the last second, that he'd stopped fighting, he'd given up trying to preserve his own lif
     
  22. bkbva

    bkbva Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2005
    First time reviewer, just felt I wanted to add a thought or two.

    As a stand alone book, it's not bad. It's full of action and it's a very quick read. That's good.

    As the ending of a nine book series of a few thousand pages, I ask, exactly what's the payoff of the last two years of reading? I think this is a bad habit of Denning's -- he gets the action going real well, but when he gets to the climax and denouement, he's lost. It was this way at the end of Dark Nest, too. "Oh, you mean I need to write an ending?"

    I won't go into the details; others have done that much better than I could. Many of them have gone into incredible detail of what they find wrong, and then give what appears to me to be an inflated score.

    This book is nothing more than average. And I'm probably being generous.
    On a scale of ten, average equals the midpoint of:
    5/10
     
  23. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Dark Nest'S ending could be written off as "a setup for LOTF", but as the end of LOTF, I do agree the lack of resolution in some areas is...irritating, especially given how enjoyable a read the book is overall.
     
  24. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 344.74/46 = 7.49
     
  25. LordRevan19

    LordRevan19 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2005
    I just got done reading the book. As I was walking into Borders I was expecting to pick up a hardcover book that was about the same size as Betrayal if not more, and was disapointed to pick up 299 pages that was supposed to be the finale of a 9 book series. But, as the old saying goes don't judge a book....In the end, I liked it. I loved the fight scenes between Cadeus and Jaina, especially the last one. It was a good book, but I was left wanting more but I guess the author did his job then. I was happy that Allana and Mirta didn't die. One of my favorite parts of the series that I really enjoyed was the Boba Fett/Mandalorians story. I felt like we didn't get any closure with Boba, just that he can't return to Mandalore and we didn't see his reaction to Mirta still being alive. All in all, great series and a good ending. I don't feel too robbed or anything, just not enough Boba Fett lol Can't wait for the new Millenium Falcon book.
    7.5/10


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