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Reviews Books The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: INVINCIBLE (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Havac , May 13, 2008.

  1. Kyptastic

    Kyptastic VIP star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 10, 2005
    I went into this book in a far different position from the other LotF books, being extremely far behind in my reading and having not read Revelation. I knew what happened, and had accepted it. I was mainly reading for completions sake before we move onto Fate of the Jedi.

    That said, I didn't expect to be moved as much as I did by Jaina's flashbacks of her brother, or moved by the jokes at the beginning of each chapter, or the sense of loss I felt when Jaina's blade pierced her brothers heart. Denning did a tremendous job of making you feel sorrow for what Jacen had become, and how excruciatingly hard for all of his family, and in particular Jaina, to come to the decision to end what he'd become for the good of the galaxy.

    This is also by far the best portrayal of Sith Lord Caedus in LotF. Disappointing as it is we had to wait until the clomax to get it, Invincible really gives you an idea about how far gone Caedus really is into Sithdom, with exceptional powers and insight, as well as an aura of menace.

    Jaina herself is presented brilliantly, as an extremely conflicted woman held together only by a conviction in her mission. You get the feeling that she could fall apart at any moment, and yet she conjures the strength to do what is right, and only then succumbs to her grief.

    Bens subplot was quite good. He's grown a lot in this series (literally and figuratively) and appears to be getting ready to assume the mantle of his father. His redemption of Tahiri especially, whilst not one of the more powerful ones in the Saga, is a good indication of this. He's also turning into quite the ladies man.

    As always with Troy, the fight scenes were superb. The fleet and ground missions weren't as well described, but due to the tight third person narrative, this doesn't bother me so much. Daala's CoS ascension again isn't a big issue with me - she's always been an oppourtunist and 30 years is a long time in history - there'd be plenty of people who weren't even born when she was considered one of the Republics major threats.

    I understand what people are saying about what was left out, and agree that this isn't what we're used to or expecting for the finales of series. However, due to the brilliance of what was present in the book, I'm giving it a 9.5 - not as good as Star by Star overall, but it really shows how Troys progressed at tightening up the action and prose to the essentials.

    -----


    As for LotF as a whole, I've enjoyed the journey. I disagree with many of the criticisms some have leveled at the series, and whilst I agree about others, I still feel as if I've got my money's worth. I look forward to Fate of the Jedi, but in particular Blood Oath, as I'm especially interested in Zekks PoV following this novel.
     
  2. Thrawn McEwok

    Thrawn McEwok Co-Author: Essential Guide to Warfare star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    May 9, 2000
    I loved it. 9.75/10. Full review here and at TF.N as soon as I can organize all the complicated explosion of wow! that I felt into linear and coherent prose.

    :D

    - The Imperial Ewok
     
  3. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 748.67/107 = 7.00
     
  4. Thrawn McEwok

    Thrawn McEwok Co-Author: Essential Guide to Warfare star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    May 9, 2000
    At last!! Review: http://theforce.net/books/reviews/r_invincible.asp#Paul

    [face_blush] :D

    - The Imperial Ewok
     
  5. Lord Bane

    Lord Bane Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 26, 1999
    I think that's far more personal commentary than we need. You can make a point without it.
     
  6. Teppler

    Teppler Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2006
    Irrelevant

    To me the only thing that made it worth reading was that it made Jacen/Caedus an interesting character again.

    Anyway, I'll give it a 3/10 for getting Jacen's characterization right.
     
  7. S1thari

    S1thari Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2008
    Agreed, the first few Caedus scenes were absolutely awesome. When he appeared on Nickel One and encountered the stormtrooper guard, and when he schooled the Moff Council after that, it made me wonder why it had taken so long to reach that point. The subsequent Mandalorian slaughter was probably my favorite action scene to come of LOTF.

    All in all, I'd give it a 6.5/10, which is pretty damn generous. Every Caedus scene was done very well, I thought.
     
  8. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 758.17/109 = 6.96
     
  9. GH-7

    GH-7 Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 7, 2008
    The arguments people often bring up when they complain about Invincible are that it was too short, that it featured too few characters and left too many loose ends.
    To me, that's part of what made it so damn good.

    A tight, focused, intense and emotional story. A hero and a villain who have a confrontation midway and a final duel at the end, like in the stories of yore. The war serves as a backdrop, as it should. Jacen is finally a compelling and slightly sympathetic villain, and his ultimate fate is true to his character. And though some things plot points are left unresolved, the themes of Legacy of the Force, of family, attachment and the futileness of war and trying to change the world, are wrapped up nicely. Most of all I dig the atmosphere of desperation and weariness that the book conjures, as it should after everything these characters have gone through. Ben' s storyline injects some fun and hope in a otherwise pretty dark book.

    The low scores that some people throw around just because they didn't like what happened seem ridiculous to me.
    This a damn good read, true to Star Wars and at the same time with a whole different feel.
    Definitely my favorite EU book.


    9.6/10
     
  10. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 767.77/110 = 6.98
     
  11. mikal768

    mikal768 Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Mar 8, 2008
    This book fails for one simple reason only:
    Daala is the NR Chief of State.
    Daala.
    Daala

    *shakes head, gives 2.0/100, or a 0.2/10.0

    What a waste of a series.
     
  12. Stymi

    Stymi Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2002
    Just finished the paperback.

    While I thought I would enjoy it more than I did, it was still pretty damn good.

    The Daala thing worked, even if the readers disagree. It's plausable b/c politics actually do work in that way.

    What disappointed me the most was the last fight between Jaina and Jacen. Loved the brutal and horrifc viloence of it, but I expected it to be more...epic.

    9
     
  13. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 776.77/111 = 7.00
     
  14. TKeira_Lea

    TKeira_Lea Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 10, 2002
    9.25/10

    Just read the book again after hearing an interview by Denning, and I got even more out of this book. Personally I think many of the low scores here reflect a dislike of the outcome and not the book or the craft that went into writing it. People using this review thread to decide whether to read the book should take that into consideration.

    Denning is a talented author, who has an amazing ability to write crisp, movie-like books. Every word, turn of phrase and nuance is carefully thought out. For instance, some have wondered about the point of Jaina's learning the shatterpoint when she doesn't use that in the battle. The scene wasn't about a way to defeat Jacen; it was about showing that one, Luke's powers are vast (Dude, he can do anything!) and two, that Jaina has the same raw potential as her twin. Luke taught Jaina the shatterpoint to give her confidence, not because she would use it in her battle with Caedus.

    The length of the book is short, but I found the pace and emotional energy gave this book the weight of a much longer book. I'm glad the story wasn't weighed down by introspection or emotional unwinding after Caedus' defeat. The series was about Jacen's fall and Denning delivered an action-packed finale.

    Some noted that Jaina and her parents didn't do enough hand-wringing, but one small scene of Han and Leia coming upon Jacen lying dead in her lap brought tears to my eyes. It was more than enough without being overplayed and overly angsty IMO.

    This is still a story about redemption, but I think you have to look harder for it in this book as opposed to what SW fans are used to from say RotJ. There is no happy ending and Ewoks celebrating around the campfire, but there is a message of hope and inklings that Jacen's dream of a united, safer galaxy might come to pass.

    The one thing I took away from this book was the question - what makes a great Jedi? Is it raw power? Or submission to the Force? Is it using the Force to bring about peace no matter the cost to your soul? It seems by the end we're given some of the answers to that question, but I think the Jedi will be asking this years into the future.

    Why to read this book? Denning is a great writer, period. He loves his characters and it shines through, especially with his portrayal of the Solo family. Sometimes, he's a bit too smart for his own good and perhaps should beat the readers over the head to get some of his points across, but I won't hold that against him. This is a powerful, turbulent, gut-wrenching book about a sister finding the strength to do the right thing for the rest of the galaxy, even if that means killing her own twin brother, and her knowing that the twin she loved would want her to do just that.
     
  15. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 786.02/112 = 7.02
     
  16. S1thari

    S1thari Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2008
    Mind if I ask for a link to this interview, or is it an older one? Either way, I'd Love to hear more of Denning's thoughts on this novel, especially a few months after its release. Thanks!
     
  17. killfire

    killfire Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 6, 2001
    I ignored LOTF after Exile and ordered Revelations and Invincible just because Daala is back.

    I didn't like invincible. IMHO it was too focused on Jaina bringing down Jacen and I didn't Luke at all because he is always hiding something:
    - he had already decided that Jaina would go after Jacen
    - he already new that ben would be captured (Myrkr anyone?)
    - he had decided that my favorite clone Jag would become Super Moff
    - I wouldn't be surprised if Daala as COS was his idea as well

    What I liked about Invincible was how it mirrors some of Legacy:
    - Jaina gets permission to kill Jacen by the Jedi Council compared to Cade asking support to kill Krayt (I wonder what the council reaction in Legacy says about Jaina's future ...)

    I'll give invincible a 4.5 out of 10 (2 for Daala as COS and 2.5 for Jag as Super Moff)
     
  18. carr3107

    carr3107 Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    May 8, 2008
    Link. The interview is actually from May, but it just went up on podcast last week. You need to make sure to download the "I Love Star Wars" One. (Click on Episode CXLIII, not the one on the top of the page). The Denning interview starts at about minute 31.

    I think it's very interesting, and he does address the Why Daala question.
     
  19. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 790.52/113 = 7.00
     
  20. DARTHJOESITHLORD

    DARTHJOESITHLORD Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Feb 10, 2009
    5 out of 10. I love Star wars as a whole and i really like Troy Denning but I really didn't care much for this book.
    Pros
    Luke was actually acting like the super powerful Jedi Grand Master that he is.
    Jaina was kicking butt.
    Ben has grown up.
    Darth Caedus was at long last the ruthless and clever Dark Lord of the Sith.
    Tenal Ka's cousins were interesting, possible romance for Zekk with Taryn.
    Mandalorians were FINALLY smacked down! YES! YES! YES!
    Shatterpoint was brought back into the Jedi Order.
    Warfare was more realistic then in any other novels.
    Caedus was not redeemed. It just seems rather stupid that people can kill hundreds of thousands of people and come back forgiven just like that, cough,Durron,cough
    Cons
    Daala became COS
    See above.
    Caedus was defeated a wee bit too easily in that first duel for me, I mean he was supposed to be the second best swordsmen in the universe with force info from the Sith Jedi and dozens of other groups!
    Han Solo was out of character at the end of the novel.
    Death of Caedus removes a male lead character from any future novels.
    Confederation was just brought back to the GA with no problems.
    Rushed ending.
    Daala is still alive.
    Fett is still alive and whining about the Jedi, they called his dad. SIXTY YEARS AGO!
    Luke was unable to fight Caedus again, I was hoping for a rematch.
    Niathal's death wasn't seen, I for one was hoping to see more of her.

    In closing it was an ok novel but it had some big gaps.



     
  21. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 795.52/114 = 6.98
     
  22. Darth_Zandalor

    Darth_Zandalor Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 2, 2009
    My Review 6/10
    definitely not the worst book I have read, but not what I wanted it to be.

    Daala needed to be in this book more. She is one of my favourite pyschopathic warlords in all of star wars.

    While I can understand Denning's reaction to Karen Traviss's mandalorian thingy, the debate between Fett and Leia ticked me off.
    Leia just goes out and says that the clones didn't deserve respect because they were blindly obedient. She never stops to consider, hell, did they even have a choice?! They were bred for that, it wasn't their decision. Leia seems pretty snappy about this considering she wasn't even there.

    The Mando backlash was acceptable to a certain degree, but when it just went into outright hostility against them, I got mad.
    I can see Mandos getting smacked down by jedi, seeing as they haven't fought jedi for years, and it was fun to see them blow a whole room of stormies to bits, I was very mad when Denning randomly decided to kill Mandalore with a nano virus. Bye bye to any surviving clones jerk. didn't sit well with me, considering I really like mandos.

    Being a mando guy, I rate this book lower on my own personal bias. Needs more ship battles too.

    6/10
     
  23. Obi-kokey

    Obi-kokey Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2005
    The LotF series as a whole has come very close to killing any enthusiasm I have towards Star Wars literature. This final installment wasn't the worst part, but it was still very poor, and suffered from what preceeded it (the worst of which, I felt, was the failure to build Jacen into a credible villain).

    Beyond nonsense like Daala's inexplicable credibility, what really bothered me was the depiction of the Solos. Jacen was written pretty well here by the standards of the series, unfortunately the previous books undermined him too much for it to matter. Han & Leia, were written poorly and in what should have been a key moment in their lives were essentially marginalised. Jaina and her perspective was ghastly, I now despise her character. This should have been the greatest challenge, emotionally and physically the character could ever face. We get numerous scenes of her admiring her parent's relationship, and the same old nonsense with Jag and Zekk - while we get told how awful the characters feel about Jacen's path - I certainly didn't feel it, it was shallow and unconvincing. Furthermore, the un-Jedi like approach taken by Jaina (and approved of by ALL the other characters) really didn't sit right with me.

    The war with Corellia seemed to have been largely forgotten, and while I loathed Traviss' Mandobation Denning compensating for it here really highlights how badly these authors meshed.

    The book was boring and predictable, rather than tragic and thrilling, which this storyline had the potential to be.

    2/10
     
  24. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 803.52/116 = 6.93