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Reviews Books The JC Lit Reviews Special: ORDER 66 (Spoilers!)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Master_Keralys, Sep 17, 2008.

  1. ezekiel22x

    ezekiel22x Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2002
    Felt like more of the same ? and this from someone who really appreciated the previous RC novels. Traviss once again shows she has a deft hand at crafting subtle moments of theme and characterization. A clone asking Skirata for money to buy candy at a time when many of his brothers are starting families nicely showed the ambiguity of age as it pertains to these unnatural yet human soldiers. Later on, the infamous "execute Order 66" moment happens when a clone is brushing his teeth, thus adding to the greater series framework that reduced all the Republic/Jedi posturing to rich men's squabbles that have little effect on the Every Man clones.

    And yet, by sticking to business as usual Traviss seems to have missed an opportunity to stretch her creative muscles and do something beyond voicing the same themes and plot-building style that have already been clearly articulated for the past two novels. Not having any of the major POV clones have to actually confront Order 66 and actively rebel against their slave-lords seems like a bit of a cop-out, an excuse to let our Mando protagonists slip away and hold hateful, murderous views without actually being depicted as hateful murderers. Indeed, this is becoming more of a problem for me with the more I read of Traviss-style Mandalorianism. It's all well and good to focus on extreme emotion and sentiment when it comes to how these characters view family, but all too often the key concept of Mandos being mercenaries ? killers, war-mongers ? is downplayed in favor of portraying how great these people are when it comes to love and acceptance. At times Traviss flirts with interesting conflict, like when Vau calls out Skirata for being an overly-sentimental old man (he does do a lot of weeping, doesn't he?), or when Skirata momentarily thinks that his role as Republic sergeant wasn't all that different to what the Jedi did as Republic generals, as at the end of the day even if he was loving these clones and calling them "son" he still went along with his orders to train them for and send them to war. Still, things feel a bit too cozy for what is supposed to be the darkest of times in the galaxy. Yes, Etain dies (in a scene where she shows a surprising level of hypocritical coldness after not viewing frightened Jedi children as anything more than The Enemy), but somehow I still don't feel an overwhelming sense of doom or even that much unease despite the fact that by novel's end the Empire is already swooping down to stake its claim on Mandalore. It's a nice tease for what might come, but based on this book I'm going to expect that the next volume offers an overdose of ner-voding and bear-hugging in lieu of a more potent picture of the messier side of sustaining a culture that is inevitably built upon a foundation of violence just as much as it is one of family.

    6.5/10
     
  2. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 182.5/26 = 7.02
     
  3. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Finally picked this up on paperback for a read-through. And I'll say this for Traviss -- things happen in this book. Constantly. It's a weakness of hers to put the plot in park while the characters angst about the same stuff for a hundred pages, but stuff is constantly happening here, real stuff and not just background noise to the angsting. So it's a moving plot, and generally it's an interesting plot.

    The problem is that Etain's death is impossible to take seriously. She's this close to getting out of it, this close to getting over to her husband and kid and family and escaping the death warrant on Jedi, and she's already decided, like a good Skirata-clanner, that she doesn't give a damn about anyone outside her family. She's willing to let the Jedi she thinks she knows die. Civilians are getting chopped up (because lol clumsy panicky Jedi Padawans are hitting civilians in the crowd like the CARELESS BASTARDS they are!) and she's still moving. Then some Jedi swings at a soldier, and Etain, with a laughably terrible internal monologue, leaps in front of him. Because. Just because. Maybe she's gone out of her mind. If she has, it's not apparent in the text.

    But it's just symptomatic of the general ridiculousness that pervades the book and undercuts it. Etain and Jusik, people who know better, are convinced that the Jedi steal kids. That if you take a Force-sensitive infant in front of General Zey, he will leap, snatch it away, and run off cackling to the Jedi Temple. Skirata is a trillionaire. Why? Because it makes him more uber. Because Jaing and Mereel can do whatever they want with computers, because they're Nulls, and even the faintest trace of realism does not apply to them. They're the greatest everything in the galaxy. Jusik, because of his compassion, consciously rejects an order that embraces universal compassion in order to join a group which he acknowledges doesn't give a crap about anyone not in the tiny circle. Oh, but they love the people inside it fiercely and will kill and torture to protect it, so it's OK and they're paragons of family excellence. Jusik notes a sane man in an insane asylum, and refuses to save him, because springing someone who isn't Uthan would raise too many questions and he can't risk saving this innocent man because too many of his clone brothers depend on Uthan. But in the same trip, he springs Arla Fett, for no other damn reason than that she's a Fett, completely without justification and taking just as much risk as he would have to rescue the guy who didn't belong in a mental institution. The whole perspective is completely screwed up like that, and everything in the plot is skewed and shuffled for the sake of fitting into the bizarre world these characters live in. The Republic Intelligence officer, some guy who tails Besany, is disrespectful toward clones. Why's he a jerk? I don't know, presumably because it makes it more sympathetic when Ordo puts a blaster bolt through his head for tailing people suspected of treasonous activity.

    The book tries to be subtle and complex, talks like it's subtle and complex, tries to be subtle and complex a few times, but ultimately it's just not interested in subtlety or complexity. At all. Order 66, the title of the book, the thing the entire series has really led up to, the pivotal clone moment, is totally avoided. No subtlety or complexity for us, thanks. Zey gets shot up by some random clones, then runs in. Ordo doesn't give a damn one way or the other, and then Maze walks in and shoots him because Zey tells him to just end it. Nobody has to confront Order 66 head-on. They're all already well past caring about it. The closest we get to an examination of the orders-friendship issue is when Boss and Scorch talk for a second about whether they would have executed it if Etain had been there, and they shrug and say, "Eh, moot point, she wasn't."

    There are some nice touches in the book, I won't deny it. Great dialogue. Use of COMPOR as nutjobs even the other officers don't take seriously. Seeing Anaxes. The w
     
  4. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 187.5/27 = 6.94
     
  5. Todd the Jedi

    Todd the Jedi Mod and Loving Tyrant of SWTV, Lit, & Collecting star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 16, 2008
    I just finished the paperback, and I gotta say, it's an improvement. Let me preface this by saying that as a whole I have enjoyed the Republic Commando series. I like the characters that Traviss has created and enjoy their stories as a whole. I also enjoy her writing style; she lets the reader know exactly what is going on with each character, something that a few select authors lack. Tight 3rd person POV can sometimes get boring and repetitive, but Ms. Traviss is transitions well from character to character.

    And now on to the book itself. A little slow in the beginning, but then it quickly transitions toward the beginning of ROTS. After the last book I was glad to see Fi again and on the road to becoming his former self. I didn't too much enjoy the operation on Haurgab, but I did however enjoy Delta on Kashyyyk. Too bad we didn't see Chewie. As I said, I liked the use of POV and the intricate details during each scene.

    Now to the "major theme": mandos=good, Jedi=bad. I felt that although some characters uncharacteristically disliked the Jedi, Traviss did a little better at focusing less on it here than the last two Rep Com books. Still, I felt bad for poor Obi-Wan and Quinlan, everyone seemed to hate them, maybe even rightly so in some cases. And this book also seemed to make it appear that every Mandalorian in history has been and will be good, as if their actions during the Mandalorian Wars never happened, as if the Death Watch never existed. While I am looking forward to Imperial Commando, I hope that Traviss stops trying to make the Mandalorian a utopian society because they are not. They are the lawless brutes that the rest of the galaxy sees them for. Clan Skirata is basically one big crime family, no different than the Corleone family; sure they love each other and hold family values above all else, but they will always turn a blind eye to some of their shadier actions because it's all for the benefit of the family. I also have a feeling that Kal won?t survive Imperial Commando.

    As for Order 66 itself, I did like that Ordo was in the middle of brushing his teeth when he received it. It shows exactly what I suspect Traviss wanted it to show: that clones are just as human as everyone else. Granted, Ordo was just about to walk away from the army, but it shows a small flaw in Palpatine's plan: not all ARC Clones, Clone Commanders or Commandos were near Jedi when the order was given. Delta Squad was nowhere near any Jedi at the time, neither was Omega. This means that the clones that were assigned to a specific Jedi might not have been anywhere near those Jedi, and said Jedi would have a greater chance of escape, which some did. Anyway, I thought Zey?s death was well played out, and Etain?s was, for lack of a better phrase, off-putting. I didn?t think it was too out of character, but it seemed too contrived, like she had to die because she was a Jedi and they were all being killed. At least we know Jusik and Kad survive to LOTF, unless Traviss decides to change her own continuity, which brings me to my next point.

    Maybe it?s because I?ve never read History of the Mandalorians that I am not too upset with her changes to the stories of Spar and Fenn Shysa. As far as broader continuity there is little effect, so I?m ready to go along with it. I will give her credit for the continuity nods that are in the book; she seemed to do a little bit more research this time around.

    As I said, this was a big improvement over True Colors, which was in and of itself an improvement over Triple Zero. I don?t think it tops Hard Contact though, simply because it?s nothing new, the end of a series rather than the beginning. This was a fun read, and once I got past all the evil Jedi and the super cool Mandalorians I found myself slightly satisfied. This book had a few more pluses than minuses, so I will give it a 6.5 out of 10.
     
  6. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 194/28 = 6.93
     
  7. DarthIktomi

    DarthIktomi Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 11, 2009
    I'll wait until I finish it to give my opinion, but it's so far pretty good. I like the idea of a Jedi falling in love with a clone, just because they end up on opposite sides. I've always been a sucker for tragedy; it's something I love about profic that you just can't get in fanfic.

    I love the idea of a flawed Jedi Order, as I've mentioned. The Jedi are still human (so to speak). They're simply a faction with psychic abilities that tries to steer the galaxy toward peace. Their biggest flaw is that in interpersonal relationships, they often seem like sociopaths; this is because, for the most part, the Jedi aren't allowed to fall in love or have families. Say what you will about Traviss; I wish more writers would recognize that the Jedi aren't perfect.

    Man, my semicolon key just got a workout.
     
  8. darthadimentsu

    darthadimentsu Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 24, 2007
    Okay, so it's ages since I've read this, but every criticism in this thread rings true, but I'd just like to add my own in the context of the other (original) Clone Wars novels and Republic (rather than the new generation TV series ones) - most basically involved a Jedi realising that clones were 'human after all', we had Bariss doing it in Battle Surgeons, the audience (+Fisto?) in Cestus Deception, Obi-Wan (and Anakin) with Alpha in the comics, Aalya with Bly in the comics, the original Hard Contact. Dark Rendevouz didn't really have clones, nor Jedi Trial all that much, so the only one with an anti-Clone point of view was the finale of Shatterpoint, because the troopers, as demonstrated by Order 66, can be used by the nefarious as tools. So if every Jedi we've met (and I'll wager Shaak Ti escaping from Dagu figured it out as well) has figured out that clones are people, won't Captain, sorry, Sergeant Amazing Skirata have picked this up on his 'intelligence'? Of course he will. I know that I'm getting towards anti-author stuff, but the truth is I really enjoyed the first two of RC. Triple Zero was an interesting look at the War on Terror, and Hard Contact was a standard Clone Wars novel. But True Colours lost it somehow (by being both dull and wrong), and I haven't found a Traviss novel I've liked since (though the new Clone Wars I have yet to have read).

    4/10 - Etain dying pointlessly suited her, and it was better than True Colours at any rate.
     
  9. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 198/29 = 6.83
     
  10. Valin__Kenobi

    Valin__Kenobi Author: Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Praji star 4 VIP

    Registered:
    Mar 30, 2004
    5/10

    Traviss continues to write very, very well, which makes it all the more unfortunate that she has little grasp of what makes the Star Wars universe tick, and all the more perverse that she remains willfully ignorant of same, after writing so many books in the milieu.

    The former is why I still read her stuff, the latter is why I just get them from the library ever since True Colors. If I can pick them up used for cheap, I will, but damned if I'm going to pay $15 or even $8 to be condescended to.

    Beyond that, I'll just ditto Havac's review (I know I keep doing that, but can I help it if the man is right 95% of the time? :p)
     
  11. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 203/30 = 6.77
     
  12. darthadimentsu

    darthadimentsu Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 24, 2007
    Oh, I hadn't read that liking Jedi= (or at least ~) Nazi thing:
    The Jedi didn't see them as Untermensch. And we don't, and we didn't before anyone had even offered Traviss a book contract (See my above post). And therefore I'm being called a Nazi for unjustifiable reasons. That's not very polite. And being English, that matters.

    And more to the point, I'd say the Jedis worth comes from what the Force teaches them, the wisdom they can discover thanks to their 'genetic' (hereditary, it might be epigenetic for all we know) blessing, their philosophy and their training. And the clones, (before Travissty) got names thanks to Jedi intercession - the Republic, and its citizens/government, were the villains seeing clones as slaves - the enemy was the common man unaware of war, and during wartime, who can blame the misled and propagandised civilians? and the corrupt/malevolent government.

    As far as I can remember, the clones, (most of them, including the more independent Republic Commandos/ARC/NARC/Clone Commanders, who are the ones focused upon, perhaps so they can object the war) at least had some intention to fight. It was a horrible situation, one designed to use the clones as slaves, one designed to destroy the Jedi - spiritually and then literally, but the design, the intentions: Palpatine and the Republic.

    The Jedi aren't superior beings. But they're better at the martial arts, at understanding the Force, and sundry other things.
    That's why a soldier's opinion on war is going to count. They know about it. That's why, when I'm thinking about who should be in charge of doing medicine, I think of doctors. Because that's what their combination of natural talent and training makes them best at? Is that Supremacist?

    Is that author-bashing? If so, then I apologise. That's not what I'm after. But the way you respond to True Colours and to Order 66 I think is inextricably linked to your response to the attitudes within, taken to their extreme by the Jedi essay.
     
  13. Lord_Hydronium

    Lord_Hydronium Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 11, 2002
    Let's keep general discussion to the discussion thread and leave this for reviews, please.
     
  14. cloneCommando1138

    cloneCommando1138 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 16, 2005
    Karen's biased attitude towards the jedi shows far too much in the novel. Other than that, a good basic plot.

    6/10
     
  15. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 209/31 = 6.74
     
  16. Stymi

    Stymi Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2002
    Fantastic read. Extremely well crafted. I'll miss the series after the 2nd IC book.

    10
     
  17. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 219/32 = 6.84
     
  18. Zorrixor

    Zorrixor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Well, at long, long (and I mean long) last, I have finally trudged my way through to the end of this since picking it up back when it was first released. I think I probably got to about page 60 back in late 2008, put it down, left it on my desk saying "I'll read that whenever I have five minutes to spare", kept picking it up, reading a couple of pages, putting it down again, but never really getting anywhere.

    Then I finally told myself "I. Am. Going. To. Read. This." back in October last year (so that's 2009 as of two days ago), and read five-to-ten pages a day until I finished it a couple of days before Christmas. And you know what? Oddly, I actually ended up enjoying it. After all the bashing I've read over the past year, I just kept thinking it wasn't ever going to be worth my time to give the book another try, but as strange as it now sounds, even to myself, I actually ended up finding it a decent read. By the time I broke the 150 page mark or so, it started to pick up a bit more, it got into the stuff that actually made me think "This is about Order 66", and I realised the characters seemed to have... something to them. Not necessarily something I find all that thrilling personally, but for what they were I found them well done.

    I knew about Etain's death before I went into the novel, so I'm unable to really offer much there, as to me it was pretty obvious she was going to die at that point. If I hadn't seen it coming? Dunno. Knowing it was coming, it was obvious. Not knowing? Would it have been "OMG!? WTK!?" shocking? Hard to say. On the whole, I felt it was pointless. Which, of course, is the point, but I still... I dunno. I'm generally against character shields, I'm generally against the main characters (especially in a book with this many) all living through. But... it just seemed so unnecessary. I get what it was there for, to show how pointless the war was, how sometimes people just die and that's it, but... I think I'd just much rather one of the other characters done that, or even Kal himself or something, given he was the "father" trying to protect his family and everything. For Etain to jump in front of a trooper just felt, well, avoidable. It could have done with more foreshadowing by having had Etain throw herself in front of things in the past, but I don't remember noticing anything earlier in the novel that suggested she was that self-sacrificing. I mean, sure, it may have always been some small part of who she was, putting the clones above her vows and own life and all that, but I feel it could have benefited (and seemed less obvious when it finally happened) to have had her doing similar things previously. That way I feel it may have made her seem more heroic in general, and less purely stupid in her final moments.

    And I wasn't even sure if she even saved the trooper or not. I mean, don't lightsabers cut through things? Wouldn't it just have sheared through the pair of them? I don't remember if it actually mentioned the trooper afterwards. My immediate thought at the time though was "Uh, girl, that isn't going to do anything."

    I suppose I'd feel differently if she didn't have a baby waiting for her. I get that it was to try and demonstrate that while she couldn't save all of them she was prepared to keep trying until the very end. But she's effectively a single-mother with a baby who has nobody else waiting for him at home. While soldiers put their lives on the line all the time, usually they have a wife or husband at home looking after the baby. Admittedly, I do know of couples who are both in the army and whose children are looked after by the grandparents. I also can perhaps see that as a Jedi who has grown up in a closed community, maybe Etain was herself still immature and not quite adjusted to the idea of being a mother and putting her child before everything else.

    This all said, I find it hard to hold this against the book until I read 501st, since at present I'm torn between "501st is going to be full of one dimensional male characters" and "501st will
     
  19. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 226/33 = 6.85