Reviews Books The JC Lit Reviews Special: SURVIVOR'S QUEST (spoilers)

Counting 12 reviews: 90.5/12 = 7.54

 

I give it a 7.5.

Overall it was a decent book, but it is also Zahn's work I like least.

I didnt mind the unanswered questions, as they will be answered in the other Outbound Flight novel.

I liked Luke and Mara. I loved how they were both written and how they interacted.

I liked Jinzler, I felt his story was interesting, and it will be cool to see Lorana Jinzler in the next novel.

I thought the foreshadwing to the Vong and to a clone of Thrawn was kind of interesting. I dont mind either. But I do hope the Vong do not play a part in the destruction of Outbound Flight. I dont think Thrawn would have kept something that big a secret. And if he didnt, I think the Vong wouldnt have been such a big surprise, at least to the Chiss.

Overall, I felt it was a pretty good book, but it could have been better, it definitely did not live up to my expectations.

 

Counting 13 reviews: 98/13 = 7.54

 

yes, cause we know Luke shaves with his saber

He's good enough that he could if he wanted to.

You were saying my saying he could do "delicate" work emasculates his style; your believing he couldn't do the above is disrespectful of his skill.

 

Just conjecture, but wasn't Mara trained by the Empire's best instructors, for most of her life?


Nope. That is revisionist history.

In the WEG TTT Sourcebooks, her weapons defense was like an 8. And then in the Revisionist Darkside Sourcebook (funny place to find an innocent, blameless non dark person) her defense was 22 (+13) or something, and Vader's was like 16. Shows what crap the revisionist version is.

Mara couldn't lift a rock in HttE. Period. She had a blaster. She didn't know how to wield a saber. I know retcons are popular nowadays in the Bush Era, where lies and coverups rule the day. But the truth is the truth, and the truth is, Mara was a weak force user, and had no saber experience. (Maybe she got knocked on the head at some point and forgot everything she knew. The force has nothing to do with learned martial skill, so no one can even use the "emperor died" excuse, becaue it doesn't wash.)

 

In the WEG TTT Sourcebooks, her weapons defense was like an 8. And then in the Revisionist Darkside Sourcebook (funny place to find an innocent, blameless non dark person) her defense was 22 (+13) or something, and Vader's was like 16. Shows what crap the revisionist version is.

okay. Just a quick RPG note, since I'm RPG-boy. You can't compare apples to oranges like that. It just can't be done.

I can try and come up with some approximation, but you can't just make those comparisons...

 

Uh huh. well, just as some say, what comes first is what is real. Just like some believe that since the HST came "before" the movie, AHN, so Bria is real, those stats came first and those the ones I belive. How can she be ten times better before TTT? It's impossible. It is revisionist.

 

Uh huh. well, just as some say, what comes first is what is real. Just like some believe that since the HST came "before" the movie, AHN, so Bria is real, those stats came first and those the ones I belive. How can she be ten times better before TTT? It's impossible. It is revisionist.

Actually, she's not. She's much, much worse in the WOTC system than she ever was in the WEG system.

I just checked.

Mara's stats in WEG (as of Dark Force Rising, the first appearance of her Force stats) are as follows:

Mara Jade, 34th Level (Scoundrel 24/Emperor's Hand 10), Init +3, Defense 29 (+16 Class, +3 Dex), Spd 10m, Attack +24/+19/+14/+9/+4 Ranged or Melee, SQ: Resource Access, Sneak Attack (6d6), Target Bonus +5, Deadly Strike, Illicit Barter, Better Lucky Than Good

Skills:
Slight of Hand +18, Knowledge (Alien Species) +19, Profession (Bureaucrat) +16, Intimidate +16, Knowledge (Planetary Systems) +10, Knowledge (Streetwise) +11, Survival +14, Appraise +7, Astrogate +19, Ride +12, Computer Use +20, Pilot +34, Diplomacy +14, Bluff +13, Profession (Gambler) +7, Spot +16, Move Silently +21, Jump +15, Swim +12, Repair +24, Demolitions +4, Treat Injury +7, Disable Device +16

Force Skills (at various levels, subtract from above):
Heal Self, Enhance Ability, See Force, Enhance Senses, Telepathy, Force Grip, Move Object

Feats:
Weapon Group Proficiency (Blaster Pistols, Blaster Rifles, Simple, Vibro, Primitive), Lightning Reflexes, Run, Martial Arts, Iron Will, Starship Operation (Starfighters, Space Transports), Endurance, Force Sensitive, Six (6) Skill Emphasis feats of choice (each giving +3 to a non-Force skill above).

Force Feats:
Control, Sense, Alter, Dissipate Energy

Four (4) Extra Feats of choice

Oh yes, she also speaks, reads or writes 18 more languages than the Speak/Read/Write Basic and Speak Huttese that she knows.

So, say what you will, she was definitively nerfed down from her power level in the Thrawn Trilogy, given the conversion rules presented in the WOTC Original Core Rulebook (the rule set in place when the Dark Side Sourcebook was printed).

 

[HK-47] Statement: A meatbag's stats are of no consequence to the indifference of my care.

 

8/10

I'm really looking forward to the prequel to this novel. Hopefully it will explain some ambiguous things in Survivor's Quest. SQ was, over all, a pretty good novel.

 

Regarding Luke?s skills, I don?t see how he being the greatest lightsaber master of his time ? or even all time ? means that he has to be able to use it in the most delicate fashion. I?ll use two examples to try to show what I mean, one example concerning professional sports and the other concerning Dungeons and Dragons.

Take Wayne Gretzky. He was greatest scoring machine in the history of hockey, bar none. But he?s never had the hardest shot, or the most accurate. He?s never been the fastest skater. He?s never been the best at taking or giving a hit. He?s never been the best 1v1, or at taking face-offs. To say that Brett Hull has a better shot in terms of both power and accuracy than Wayne Gretzky ever did does not diminish that Wayne Gretzky was the better hockey player. Gretzky had an almost supernatural awareness of what was going on around him, had better understanding of the game than everyone else, and could put his not inconsiderable skills to use better than anyone else. Luke is in the same boat. Yes, some people might edge out his skills in certain areas. Mara might be more delicate and precise in her lightsaber work, Kyp might edge Luke out in terms of TK abilities, Leia might be better with the empathic qualities of the Force. But at the end of the day, Luke?s skills are broader than theirs, and overall he?s far more skilled and powerful.

My second example is from Dungeons and Dragons. Compare a level X Rogue with a level X Fighter. The fighter is going to have feats up the ying-yang, have massive hit points, and a high base attack bonus. The rogue is going to have a lower base attack bonus, and far fewer feats. In a straight fight, the fighter will win every time. He?s simply more skilled overall at fighting. But in one particular aspect of fighting, the sneak attack, the rogue is better than the fighter ? more precise. I look at the situation there between Luke and Mara to be much the same. Luke is obviously the far better fighter overall, but that doesn?t mean that in one particular aspect someone else can?t be better.

Given that Mara has had demolitions training that Luke hasn?t had, and given Mara?s more calculating nature compared to Luke?s more spontaneous nature, I think that it makes sense that this is one aspect that Mara?s skills are comparable or superior to Luke?s.

 

Uhhh DPM...

Dude, that's not even funny. First of all there are no characters above 20th level in Star Wars the RPG, second of all its WIZARDS OF THE COAST, and also Mara Jade gains Seven Levels in Jedi by the time of NJO

which brings her down to at least 13th level in DFR

Also something to note about her West End Games stats....

Mara Jade was a friggin TANK. She was like Thrawn some of the most overpowered, good with EVERYTHING characters ever written...and while Mara's abilities were low she still had as good a force skill as Leia who was hackin away in that book.

I also remind you in TTT Mara uses Luke's saber several times proficiently

No retcon there

 

Uhhh DPM...

Dude, that's not even funny. First of all there are no characters above 20th level in Star Wars the RPG, second of all its WIZARDS OF THE COAST, and also Mara Jade gains Seven Levels in Jedi by the time of NJO

That's my point.

She was way, way, way more overpowered in the Thrawn Trilogy Sourcebooks (WEG) than she was in the WOTC sourcebooks.

So, if anything, they retconned her lower.

 

I thought this book was very good. Zahn hasnt skipped a beat when it comes to SW and it shows. Yea, I agree that he did take some liberties with Mara and a few others but I kind of expected that. Otherwise I thought it was a great read with an interesting plot and some great characterizations like Chak Fel, Drask, Formbi, Jinzler, and to a lesser extent, the 501st. Like the rest of you I wish that Zahn would have at least thrown us a bone or two in regards to the circumstances regarding the destruction of Outbound Flight and why exactly the Vagaari wanted both the Chiss and Jedi dead, but I guess we'll have to wait for the sequel for that.


Lastly, I agree that Thrawn needs to stay dead already. The ambiguity at the end was fine but lets just hope it stays that way. If I read about another Thrawn clone my head will explode.


8.5/10

 

Okay. Finally got around to reading the book yesterday.

The whole "delicate" situation bothers me not at all.

This was a good companion piece to Tatooine Ghost. I'm thinking Denning's main assignment there was simply to write a Han & Leia book, and Zahn's here to write a Luke & Mara book, and the rest of the plot basically grew from there.

I'm not a fan of Zahn's writing style. He's a solid writer, at least. Competent. I just don't much like his dialogue, with people "countering" each other every three seconds, and I don't like the constant "Ah" when characters begin to speak. How many people in an actual conversation will pause to say "Ah" for dramatic effect first?

Also, Zahn seems to think he's a lot more clever than we are. He seems to delight in setting up subtle situations and then, instead of letting the reader puzzle them out, go back and explain them away in detail. And speaking of clever, he alse seems to delight in coming up with clever little Jedi traps (this isn't necessarily a negative, just an observation). And, dammit, am I the only one who knew how the whole Geroon/Vagaari thing would turn out within a few pages after the Geroon were introduced?

The Chiss. This is the first time I've found the Chiss even remotely interesting. In the Hand of Thrawn books I couldn't have cared less about what we learned of the Chiss. In Red Sky, Blue Flame and later in the NJO all the stuff we learned about the Chiss society I found to be mostly pretty boring. Here I didn't mind them for once, and actually kind of liked them. However, continuity-wise (though I'd have to go back to some other books to confirm this), I'm not sure how well these events work. I got the impression from NJO that the NR wasn't in any kind of contact with the Chiss, that they were still an unknown, which doesn't make sense considering the events of this book. Also, Thrawn. He's not overtly here, thank goodness, but even to have the possibility brought up almost ruined the book for me. He was simply annoyingly omniscient in Thrawn Trilogy. By the time we'd gotten through Hand of Thrawn, I was sick to death of hearing about the guy and how he's smarter than anyone else in the Galaxy and was really a noble good guy and misunderstood and so on and so forth. When his name came up here, I simply groaned. He's gone from annoying to the worst joke in the EU.

I liked the 501st. Though I don't recall having heard of Chak Fel before, the scenes with him and Aurek-Seven were probably my favorite in the book. One thing that bugged me -- maybe the Empire of the Hand has developed new Stormtrooper armor, but I found it hard to swallow that while in the movies it takes one glancing shot to down a stormtrooper, here you've got a stormie under a sustained (albeit weakened) barrage from large numbers of enemies for quite a while at a time, and walking away from it.

Dreadnaughts are not a big threat, Mr. Zahn. Especially not ONE Dreadnaught. Eek.

Good opening. I liked it.

I really like the idea of having the Jedi face a droideka (although again, I knew how it would be beaten shortly after the fight started), but I found the execution to be a little slow and dull.

I think the most oft-repeated comment I've read here is about how many questions it raises. I agree, especially considering that nowhere in the book does it mention that it's going to be followed by a companion volume to answer those questions. Thinking about it, I've decided that it would have made a far better book if the Outbound Flight novel had been merged with this one. You know, have a segment of this novel, and then once they arrive at OF, switch back fifty years and tell the beginning of the OF story, and then switch back to the Luke/Mara story until one of the big questions is raised, and then jump back and continue on the OF story for a while. Granted, this wouldn't have made much sense for Del Rey -- they'll sell twice as many books this way than they would if it was all contained in one cover -- but I think dramatically it would have be

 

Counting 16 reviews: 121.75/16 = 7.61

 

I was debating whether or not I should even bother with Fools Bargain. Would you mind posting a brief synopsis/review, Mastadge ?

 

Fool's Bargain takes place an undetermined time before Survivor's Quest, probably a few years, and is about Aurek-Seven in the 501st on a mission. It introduces the character known as Grappler in Survivor's Quest (the stormie who's an alien), and tells how he joins the Stormtroopers of the Empire of the Hand. It's basically just a little action piece, not very well written IMO, not as much fun as Zahn's recent Yoda story (from the Hasbro thing).

 

Ok, cool. Thanks alot, Mas.

 

I would give the book a 9 out of 10. I love the books that add more than just your standard space battles, and light saber battles for that matter. The heavy dose of mystery was very refreshing, just as the heavy hand of philosophy was so refreshing in Traitor. I like to look at the books singularly, not always in the larger context. How can the author make this book fantastic? What plot twist will I add? Not how can I make sure everything fits as perceived in other books. I'm all for continuity, but I want the best reading experience I can get. I don't want the author to do a 180, but I don't mind him pushing the limits. And lastly, for those who don't like the book because of unanswered questions, that is rather like saying ESB isn't very good because we don't know what will happen to Han. Come on; Zahn had to set up the next book. Anyway, great read and a page turner.

 

Actually saying that it doesn't answer questions is a valid reason for not liking and for giving it a low score. This is suppose to be a single novel, not part of a predefined series. In order to understand things one is forced to read the prequel novel that will be writen. Storywise it seems that it doesn't to hold up well on its own and one has to read the other novel in order to get the entire picture. Now it might be better to judge this novel along with the prequel as a duology but it isn't setup like that. So one needs to judge SQ by itself on its own merits. Now if the story doesn't go anywhere and just brings up more questions then anything else I say its fair to give it a low score based on that. I mean seriously the event has already happen already. Being told what happen(which is what should have happen here) and actually watching it play out(the unreleased novel) is something different. In SQ things could have been told but in the other novel we could get the real story without all the mistakes and unsureness. To bad things don't seem to have been done this way.

If what I'm hearing is correct I think I'll just wait and pick up the the prequel novel by Zahn instead of reading this.

 

Actually counterpoint they're a bit exact because attacks in Star wars are the same no matter what weapon you use usually.

Thus in fact Mara didn't get better in battle, EVERYONE ELSE DID

 

If what I'm hearing is correct I think I'll just wait and pick up the the prequel novel by Zahn instead of reading this.

Well, what Zahn keeps on repeating now is that when the Outbound Flight novel is out, his books will indeed make up one septet (or septalogy, or whatever neologism he decided to use); one big story. Which I kind of see as balogna, because I guarantee that when he was launching Bantam's SW line with Heir to the Empire he was writing a trilogy complete unto itself and not envisioning writing Hand of Thrawn or Outbound Flight novels. But, whatever. It'll be interesting to see what he does with OF.

 

Im assuming that it'll be released after E3 so as to avoid any possible contradiction, right ?

 

I think it does come out after Episode III, but it takes place between TPM and AOTC.