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Reviews Books The JC Lit Reviews Special: THE CLONE WARS: NO PRISONERS (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Havac , May 19, 2009.

  1. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 84.7/12 = 7.06
     
  2. Stymi

    Stymi Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2002
    I really enjoyed this one...much more than Wild Space. KT does an amazing job of writing military sci-fi and exploring the ambiguities of war.

    It was really interesting to see a younger Pellaeon.

    But the best part was the contrast between the Altis Jedi and the dogmatic Jedi Order.

    Not to mention that no one write clone troopers better than KT.

    8.5/10
     
  3. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 93.2/13 = 7.17
     
  4. Zebra3

    Zebra3 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 28, 2004
    I finished it earlier this week. First of all I need to get something out of the way

    *Ahem*

    Oh my god! Do we really need to hear about the morality of using clones in every single Traviss book in this era?!! It was in this book, The Clone Wars novelization, and ALL of her Republic Commando books!!!!! Yes, it is more than a questionable thing to do. I get it, really I do. Can she please move on? I'm getting tired of this broken record, broken record, broken record.

    *thank you*

    As for the rest, I have to say this wasn't my least favorite of the Traviss books. Even so, there were more than a few problems:

    -- I don't remember the name of that planet but I will forever think of it as "The Spit planet." Seriously, are we really supposed to believe that that's an interesting trait of the place? I was grossed out.

    -- What was wrong with Anakin? Am I really meant to believe that he's more worried about Rex and his clones rather than his own padawan? That's stupid.

    -- Hallena, she was a veteran spy? Really? She seemed like an idiot to me.

    -- There wasn't enough action. It just seemed to me to be mostly them moving from place to place. It was kind of... boring.

    -- This book was way too short for what we have to pay for it.

    That's not to say I completely hated it

    -- I rather liked Pellaeon.

    -- Seeing another Jedi sect. It's nice to see different force traditions every now and then.

    -- Um.... the cover was nice.

    All in all... like I said, this wasn't the worst Traviss book I've ever read, so I guess I'll give it a 6.
     
  5. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 99.2/14 = 7.09
     
  6. Valin__Kenobi

    Valin__Kenobi Author: Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Praji star 4 VIP

    Registered:
    Mar 30, 2004
    8.25/10, which is higher than I'd expected. I'm basically going to second Havac's review on the first page.

    Traviss remains the only author able to do anything worthwhile with Ahsoka. I enjoyed seeing Callista and Pelly again; they didn't get nearly as butchered as they might have, and Callista temporarily inhabiting the ship's computer was a genuinely cool foreshadowing. It was nice to see Djinn Altis for the first time outside of flashbacks/retellings, although the size and "heretical" nature of his sect was overdone for my tastes, considering it was only added as a passing retcon to explain the now-irregularities from COTJ. Yes, Djinn follows the TOTJ code, so noted, now let's move on and not pound The Message quite so hard, hm?

    Also on the plus side: there wasn't a single mention of Mandos, the clone angst was inevitably present but less obtrusive (except when Anakin dwells on it more than he ever did in any other source), and the anti-Republic wangsting was confined for the most part to Hallena Devis, an original character, so it didn't have to horribly distort the established cast. I wonder if Traviss got most of that anti-Jedi stuff out of her system with Order 66.

    Basically it was good in the ways I expected and was flawed in exactly the places I expected, but flawed only mildly at that. The plot itself was inventive, enjoyable, and moved at a breakneck pace. I burned through this in two days, which is remarkably fast for me considering I read three or four books at a time and alternate between them.
     
  7. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 107.45/15 = 7.16
     
  8. chiss_man

    chiss_man Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 1, 2002
    Quick and relatively inoffensive, No Prisoners read like a book that Ms. Traviss pushed out relatively quickly. There seemed to be a lack of enthusiasm in the whole thing, like it was a job, nothing more. It's unsurprising to me that this is her last Clone Wars book, as she seems to have lost much desire to continue writing these stories. Overall though, there was not anything terrible here. Pellaeon was written well, and was about what I'd expect from a young version of him. The stuff with Ahsoka and Callista's crew was genuinely interesting, but the overall story was rather simple (spy gets captured, she's rescued, the end). Still, there's nothing that really upset me here, and as such, I can safely give it a 7.5/10.
     
  9. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 144.95/16 = 7.18
     
  10. pronker

    pronker Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 28, 2007
    [:D] First off, I enjoy Traviss' writing. This book distilled her good points: the personality clashes of war's various 'types' that must cooperate or find chaos. Rex came off particularly well, his protectiveness of his Jedi Commander, Ahsoka, in the somewhat odd grilling by his troops on her stand on attachment sounding IC to The Clone Wars TV show's Rex. The Altis contingent was supposed to be THE correct Jedi path, yeah, I got it. Anakin's attraction to that path, very well done and his character's dissection, wow, that was great, as was Callista's plunge into the machine mind. Outstanding. The humorous touches, Altis as a befuddled old guy, Ahsoka told to wear protective clothing, that was cute.

    I enjoyed Pellaeon and his GF well enough; I'd read the books featuring him at first publication and don't really recall if he is true to that era of EU in this new book. All the characters were changed in a radical way, great: Anakin has food for thought, Pellaeon knows his GF is history, at least for now, and Devis has a new life with Altis. That is a good thing for an author to accomplish. I wish her luck in her new endeavors.

    Rating: 8/10

     
  11. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 122.95/17 = 7.23
     
  12. Rogue...Jedi

    Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 12, 2000
    Pretty good, but nothing really special for me. It was nice seeing Pellaeon, though his character seemed...odd.

    There are many, many SW books I will take ahead of this one, but that doesn't mean it wasn't still a good book.

    7/10
     
  13. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 129.95/18 = 7.22
     
  14. ProfessorWalsh

    ProfessorWalsh Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2009
    I got to give this a 1 out of 10.

    I didn't like it, I felt it was too short, and it was riddled once more with Traviss' personal opinions about the Jedi. She introduces a "Mary Sue" order of Jedi who can feel, and love, and yadda yadda, but they never fall to the dark side. Being a fan of the traditional Jedi and not being a fan of Karen's twisted view might lend itself to this. I found Captain Rex and the clone's behavior towards Ahsoka to be extremely over the top and out of character. I also felt that Traviss tried to inject artificial angst into the characters and that never works out well.
     
  15. Darth_Nihl

    Darth_Nihl Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Ah, the library. Every once in a while, I thank myself for not buying a Star Wars book. This was one of those times.

    Not to say that the book wasn't that bad. It was actually better than I expected it to be, seeing as I've completely avoided the RC series.

    The Good:

    - Ahsoka. Who knew she could be so... tolerable.

    - KT does know how to weave an excellent story. If she didn't have to constantly remind us of why her characters are better than others, she would be an amazing author.

    The Bad:

    - It felt quite rushed; one second Hallena is infiltrating the uprising sect, and the next it's a full blown revolt.

    - Djinn and his little band of "Jedi." Yes Traviss, we know you dislike the Jedi and that if you were in charge, this is what they would be like.

    - Pellaeon constantly thinking about how amazing the clones were, specifically Derrel.

    - Having every character wonder about who bought the clone army and where the money came from.

    The Ugly:

    - The Clones and Ahsoka discussing sex. Unnecessary.

    - Hallena. She was a completely pathetic and utterly incompetent character. I was thrilled when she got captured, and was wondering why anyone would bother saving someone so useless.

    I also had to laugh at how the clones were so obsessed with avenging Vere's death. They had known him for what, a week? I kept thinking to myself, "What? He was only a clone!"

    4.5/10
     
  16. GGrievous

    GGrievous Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2005
    I must say No Prisoners was completely out of character. It was, however, a good read and KT did a terrific job showing certain dynamics that the series never shows. While it had much needed character development for characters like Ahsoka, it did have certain issues that weren't needed and didn't fit right within the TCW story.

    When Pellaeon tells Ahsoka to put some more clothes on, i.e, "wear these scrubs due to hazards in the ship", that was a good part early in the book. I liked how she reacted. I never seen Ahsoka get annoyed by anything in the TCW series, and KT did a great job showing something like this in the tie-in novel to TCW. I wish they can actually show Ahsoka struggling with something in the series. The character needs a lot of development. And with Pellaeon saying "How come Skywalker never tells his padawans to put some clothes on," was fantastic for his character.

    For that whole dealing with Hallena, I didn't care for her character that much. I did like how she was the love interest of Palleon and how KT expands it throughout the novel, although it just felt too out of character.

    More towards the clones, I did enjoy that "sex/romance" talk that Ahsoka and the clones had. Again, Ahsoka seemed like she was annoyed during this. With Rex not involved with their immature discussion, it looked as if he was the mature one in the group and he knows what the "kids" are going through.

    When Ahsoka and Callista were having those "girls talks," it lagged the story a bit. I can see Ahsoka was dealing with her emotions, learning of attachments, because of the Altisian Jedi; though, sometimes it did get out of line. On Palleon's ship, the two girls did have some sort of "girl talk," however, KT thankfully did not write it. That would be way out of character and unnecessary for the story. On JanFathal, before the droid attack, Ahsoka was challenging Callista with various questions about why does she have a boyfriend and Jedi attachments. I liked how Callista described Ahsoka a "just a kid" and she doesn't know what love is yet, but that dynamic is not for TCW.

    Overall this novel is one of KT's best. While it has more of a mature tone to it, some dynamics (Some per mentioned above) aren't for TCW. I can't see how they will take Ahsoka's character to some new "unexplored" territory, while they haven't fully developed the movie/series TCW Ahsoka.

    5/10
     
  17. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 140.45/21 = 6.69
     
  18. MistrX

    MistrX Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 20, 2006
    An all right book, with its share of flaws and the usual strong opinions, though okay. Just okay. For one thing, with the length and the single dominant setting, even its 250 pages hadn't really felt like a novel when I had finished. It's novel length and yet it felt more like a short story or novella. Maybe that's the pacing, moving the story along, but it still felt like it came up a bit... short. At least for a novel.

    It's not a terrible book, but I'm not sure the fact that it's meant to be a tie-in really helps it. Details between it and the show seemed to clash at times, and that bothered me really more than it should have, even though most of them had perfectly reasonable explanations. Things like Ahsoka wearing her usual Padawan two piece while Anakin for some reason is in the usual Jedi robes (which actually fits better with the rest of the CW material, not having the armor outside of the new series). Anakin flies in a Torrent for some reason since his usual fighter must have been in the shop. War and all.

    The characterizations worked for the most part though some were often way off. Anakin is written well, the rogue Jedi with the secret wife meeting the rogue sect with whom he might have belonged. He's still very much the Jedi general hero we know, but he's also the young late teenager unsure of himself when he finds something new. Ahsoka was... I want to say more compliant, maybe submissive than I'm used to, though I continued to like her dynamic with Rex, something I don't think the show has carried over from the movie quite as much as it could. Speaking of Rex, I'm torn with him. Parts feel perfect and others... not so much. He just seems off at times, but usually I think Traviss nails it with him. Although he calls the droids "tinnies" here (which I think he may have done in the first CW book) rather than the show's "clankers". So there's definitely some disconnect between this and the product into which it's meant to be tying.

    Then there's Pellaeon. Well, he is a young man here, 30 years before his first appearance we had of him. He's got a lover and according to Rex he doesn't give a care about protocol. So apparently age and years with the Empire made him the complete opposite of his portrayal in this book. There are even plenty of hints of his later nature since he believes himself to be a stickler for procedure. Sounds a bit schizo, but for the clones, it wouldn't surprise if he might act a little differently.

    Altis' little sect definitely brings up some of those questions and doubts many had with the Prequel OJO, though I'm not sure how I feel about them. They clearly aren't quite the paragon light side Forceness, but then no one really is. They bring up the questions Yoda's don't address (along with the ones we've seen many times before a.k.a. clone army). At the same time, I couldn't help but laugh at some observations, such as any time the Republic falling brought up considering the government that replaces it. And, of course, there are Altis' thoughts at the end of the book, about the galaxy needing more attachment and love, something that, from a certain point of view, is the very basis of the OJO's philosophy of service and compassion to the people of the galaxy. So, I'll give this to the book, it's ideas make one think.

    Does that make Altis' people likable or interesting? To an extent, I'd say. Altis is fun to get to know as the experienced but still conflicted master. Callista certainly gives us the hints of what's to come with her and her thoughts on battle droids and their status is one of the most interesting things I've ever read in Traviss' Star Wars books. It's nice that some non-droid is considering it, even if Callista chooses to ignore it. Geith is, well, rather contentious and a little too sure of himself and his ways. And it's here we see some close-mindedness isn't exclusive to Yoda's group.

    Some good ideas, a bit short, a bit thin, and sometimes a little unfocused. Not a bad read, though. 6.5/10
     
  19. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 146.95/22 = 6.68
     
  20. cdgodin

    cdgodin Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 9, 2009
    7.5/10
     
  21. sakar_echani

    sakar_echani Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jul 21, 2009
    I won't beat around the bush. No Prisoners is absolutely horrible on many fronts. Now, I also want to say that my negative review is not preconditioned on a personal dislike of Karen Traviss. I mention this because many threads about her writings fall dangerously close to being overtly personal. I never met the woman and I've never talked to her. However, she wrote a piece of commercially available fiction. In doing so, she opened her work to critical review and I will attempt to analyze and evaluate her work, not the author.

    First, the plot and pacing of No Prisoners is flawed, disjointed, uneven, and sometimes downright boring. The idea of Pellaeon in the Clone Wars is by itself, a reasonably interesting plot point or background story but not enough of a story to carry a novel, which becomes painfully clear anytime he is the POV character. He commands a ship, so most of the action is constrained to him standing on the bridge having internal monologs as his crew performs their dangerous or difficult duties.

    It's not too great an expectation that a scene where Pellaeon's cruiser is racing at high speeds to pick up a Jedi and his clone detachment coming straight at him on another ship while Pellaeon is simulataneoulsy being chased by two Confederacy ships would make for an exciting read. However it takes nearly an entire chapter for this to occur losing all sense of momentum and excitement as we constantly break for Pellaeon's thoughts on the situation.

    Conversely, at other times the plot moves ridiculously fast, Hallena infiltrates a people's revolutionary group. going from complete stranger to trusted confidant in about 5 pages covering a time span of hours. Months of establishing cover, and proving worth and value to the organization is simply ignored for the plot's sake.

    No Prisoners was marketed as providing an interesting pairing: Rex and Ahsoka without Anakin. Unfortunately that dynamic is never thorougly investigated. Ahsoka quickly becomes extraneous to the action of the story and she is separated from Rex. When she does make an appearance she does not have her typical youthful energy. Secondly, the professional interactions between Ahsoka and Rex are horribly skewed, as highlighted by the previous commenters regarding Ahsoka, Rex, and the clones discussing sex. Additionally, where does a clone captain, get off calling a Jedi padawan "littl'un"? She is his ranking officer.

    Although, the plot was weak and characterizations were sometimes counter to already higher-canon established relationships, the story was effective in bringing the larger EU into the story. Unfortunately, the utilization of those EU elements was severely problematic. Djinn Altis, Callista, and Geith, seem only to exist to provide an example of a Jedi lifestyle that can easily encompass attachment and create a relationship to the force that is always rainbows and sparkles. In the highly repetitive conversations that Ahsoka, then Pellaeon, and then Anakin have with the other three Jedi, a very black and white dichotomy is created: Jedi Council with is dispassion is bad, Althis with his passion is good. It is difficult to accept that nobody could voice a question or two that would have found some fault or failings with the Altis teachings. Conversations were not had; lectures were heard

    Lastly, I found the sexism within No Prisoners to be completely appalling. The GFFA is often portrayed as a universe of gender equality. The various characters within this novel seem to exist outside of that. And what makes the sexism worse is that many times, the female characters, themselves, are expressing such thoughts. Here are several examples:

    A) Anakin, during a domestic scene with Padme as she's making caf, comments on how it would be nice if this could be a typical day in the life for them with "Padme as a Coruscanti housewife". Not Coruscanti nurse, not Coruscanti middle manager, not Coruscanti executive vice president, but a housewife.

    B) Padme, a Galactic Senator,
     
  22. jmf4

    jmf4 Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2008
    One of the dullest Star Wars books I've ever read. I napped my way through the entire thing way back in June and it still puts me to sleep when I try to think about it. 2/10
     
  23. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 157.45/25 = 6.30
     
  24. GrandMasterKatarn

    GrandMasterKatarn Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 8, 2008
    Karen Traviss remains one of my favorite authors (next to Michael Crichton and Timothy Zahn in general). Her writing was excellent for the story. Pelleaon seems kinda off, but when you think about it, whoever behaves the way they do at one age and 30 so years later? No one.

    Loved the entire book.

    10/10
     
  25. Kaxs

    Kaxs Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 28, 2009
    I had a problem or two with this novel:

    1) Pellaeon. Sure, great written, but there are a few continuity issues with the Thrawn Trilogy. For one, it is stated in Heir to the Empire, IIRC, that he thinks clones are mad. Besides, he is rather strict with protocol. None of these seemed to apply in No Prisoners.
    2) Er... well, it was way too short. That's the only other real issue I had with this novel.

    Other than that, it was really a great novel - one of Traviss's best, in my opinion. It was a nice mix of her very "military-style" writing and more tradional, "Zahn-style" Star Wars. There was a reasonable amount of good action in it, and the rest was fast-paced enough to keep my interest. Seeing Pellaeon with a lover was a great surprise - but not a bad one. Anakin and Ahsoka's respective feelings for Altis's Jedi sect were both nice and plausible. The Leveler's role? This adds some (if only very little) depth to its appearance in Hard Contact.