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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

The JC Lit Reviews Special: THE CLONE WARS: WILD SPACE (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Havac , Dec 21, 2008.

  1. Manisphere

    Manisphere Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 25, 2007
    Thank you for stopping by Ms. Miller! Hope you do more than a driveby next time. :)
     
  2. KarenMiller

    KarenMiller Author: -Wild Space star 1 VIP

    Registered:
    Mar 6, 2009
    Jeff did an amazing job. And he's a really, really lovely guy. Dead sexy voice! *g* And if you could have seen me driving around the place listening to the audio version in my car, with the stupidest grin on my face. Every time they put in sfx I was giggling like a little girl! Totally surreal. This whole experience has been surreal. And thank you! I'll be starting the rewrite on Clone Wars #4 in a couple of weeks -- really looking forward to tackling it.
     
  3. KarenMiller

    KarenMiller Author: -Wild Space star 1 VIP

    Registered:
    Mar 6, 2009
    You're very welcome. And please, it's Karen. I've been a bit hesitant to raise my voice because, in the end, this is a fan space. And the last thing I want to do is make the regulars here feel they can't say whatever is on their mind about anything I've done, in whatever terms they feel they have to use. But then on the other hand, having dropped in to see how folk were reacting to Wild Space, and finding such thoughtful commentary, I wanted to say thank you for that. So, you know -- all new ground for me. If anyone wants to ask me a question, or to challenge anything I've done, I'm happy to engage. Or not. Like I said -- fan space. It's up to you guys!
     
  4. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
  5. Liliedhe

    Liliedhe Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 22, 2009
    Wild Space is one of my favourite Star Wars books. A major part of the attraction Star Wars has for me are the characters - and Wild Space focusses on getting under their skin, instead of trying to drown shoddy characterization with action and/or gore. I loved the beginning that closed the gap between the hangar on Geonosis and the finale of the movie (and I wish very much Ms. Miller's next book would do the same thing for TPM, showing the bridge scenes between the big fight and the end - hey, a girl can dream^^).

    The insights into Obi-Wan's and Bail's characters, but also the little bits from Yoda's and Mace's point of view were great. Also, the Jedi philosophy was well constructed, even though I disagree with some interpretations. ;) But, taking apart the Jedi Code or the interpretations of different authors is kind of my hobby, so I'm content with a new intellectual exercise. Zigoola was a very interesting planet, I liked that there was no real outward danger, it was just... dead. It provided no distraction to the real drama inside the characters' heads. Kind of like Malachor V in the second KOTOR game, where also the inside of the main character seems to be given physical form.

    When I read the cover blurb for this book, I was excited, but also very cautious. It sounded like the kind of book I had been wishing for for a long time - only to be disappointed. Well, Wild Space delivered. :) I'm very, very eager to read the next book by Ms. Miller, and I truly hope she will get to write more Star wars books after that.

    So, I'll give 9.5/10 points, because the ending felt a bit rushed. I'd have liked to have one more scene from Bail's POV in the end, maybe him telling the whole dramatic adventure to his wife or something - just so there's complete closure.
     
  6. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 228.55/28 = 8.16
     
  7. Obi Anne

    Obi Anne Celebration Mistress of Ceremonies star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 4, 1998
    It took me some time to get going with the book, but when it happened I just couldn't stop. This book had Bail (enought really to make me happy), a Padmé that showed some character instead of just moping about Anakin and Obi-Wan fighting the dark without a lightsabre.

    I try to hold my final score down a bit, I'm trying not to exaggerate but it still gets:

    9/10
     
  8. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    9.5/10.

    Not many of the moments that made Inferno a 10/10 for me, but certainly a wonderful book which had the initiative to touch upon what the entirety of the old Clone Wars continuity avoided - the consequences of Geonosis. Anakin has to recover his arm, Padme has to establish distance between the man she loves while he suffers internally and physically, and Yoda tries to keep everything together. Bail is incredibly well done, and the flash forward seven weeks, and the introduction of Ahsoka into this new world, is done exceptionally well.

    Made my life hell fitting everything from the old canon into those first seven weeks - but it was certainly doable ;) - and then the subsequent chapters that were dedicated to Obi-Wan as he dove in and out of the Grievous-Bothawui storyline was awesome linking. And then, and only then, did we arrive at Zigoola, which was tense, nail-biting, and impossible to not be worried for Kenobi about.

    And the two of them won, working together to defeat the Sith - to genuinely cost Sidious. :D It was exceptional. It even made me check Wookiepedia a few times for all the young novel references.

    Only negatives for Eeth Koth, which didn't make too much sense, really (-.25). And no Siri Tachi reference (-.25), which befuddled me a little. But those are editorial things, really. Hardly Karen's fault - she made an goshdarnit excellent nosedive into Star Wars, and I can't wait to see more from her. :D
     
  9. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 247.05/30 = 8.24
     
  10. kttch809

    kttch809 Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    May 28, 2005
    There was one in the last paragraph of page 23, after Yoda tells Obi-Wan to convince Padme to end her relationship with Anakin.
     
  11. Leto II

    Leto II Jedi Padawan star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2000
    I certainly hope it was hell. [face_mischief] ;)

    (And yup -- there definitely was a Siri-reference in there. Warmed the cockles of my heart that Karen worked in that nod to the Watson books.)
     
  12. KarenMiller

    KarenMiller Author: -Wild Space star 1 VIP

    Registered:
    Mar 6, 2009
    I'm about to get swallowed alive again by another major manuscript rewrite, so I wanted to drop in again very quickly to say, if you're not tired of hearing it, how much I appreciate the kind words. Seriously, guys, I'm not sure if I can convey how I feel about your generous welcome. It's a huge relief to know that what I tried to do mostly worked. And in the next book I think I've managed to address some folks' concerns about stuff that didn't work so well for them, too. I'm still very much on a learning curve and the all feedback helps me to grow as a writer. You rock!
     
  13. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    Then consider me bumping it up to 9.75. Havac, note that addition, please. :D

    And, Leto, look here for the new timeline. ;)

    It was good to see you, Karen, I hope things get lighter for you soon. [face_peace]
     
  14. chiss_man

    chiss_man Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 1, 2002
    For a debut novel, Karen Miller did a great job. I did not know what to expect when I went into this book, in fact, I bought it with some trepidation, due to my unease with the continuing Clone Wars era timeline shenanigans. But what I got was a great Obi-Wan book, which really scratched at the heart of what makes him the person he is. This was a downright brutal book at times, in the way it pushed both Obi-Wan and Bail Organa to the brink at several points throughout their journey to the Sith Temple. Speaking of which, Bail got some much needed fleshing out here as well, and it showed why he's the BA founder of the Rebel Alliance. Were this the extent of the book it would have been downright near perfect, but the Anakin/Padme stuff did drag it down somewhat. Their exchanges seemed forced, somewhat. I realize that that was the same in the movies, but sheesh! Also, the dating issues bugged me yet again, but I'm pretty used to that with Clone Wars era stuff at this point. Still though, a fine debut for Karen Miller, and I look forward to her future works in the Star Wars sandbox. An 8/10
     
  15. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 255.05/31 = 8.23
     
  16. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Amazing.

    I don't like LFL's mucking around with the Clone Wars timeline just for the sake of their new movie/TV project.

    I don't like the idea of Anakin Skywalker having a Padawan either.

    And this book about a mission to investigate the Sith, mixing as it does a fractious buddy relationship between ObiWan and Bail Organa....

    This book I should despise as a collection of cliches without any value whatsoever and yet....

    I love it. It's a brilliant book that works not because of some of the material it has to work in, but in spite of it. It works as a characer study, because that's where the real focus is and it has the nerve to delve into one of the biggest yet least explored faultlines in SW: The gap between those who can and cannot use the Force and how it impacts upon their perception of reality. Despite the best efforts of both to understand, both ObiWan and Bail come to accept there will be some things about each other that will be inexplicable, always.

    Yet even more impressive is Miller's take on the Sith: It should not really be possible for anyone to do anything new in regard to these bastards yet she has achieved the impossible. The idea of a Sith planet, armoured with weaponry that aims to possess then kill any trespasser is wonderfully vile but so very Sith. Although it mus be said Miller's take on the Sith only works to its fullest creepy measure if you accept the notion of an external dark side, as she takes the reader not only onto a dark world, but a temple utterly sodden in it. So strong is the darkness in the temple on Zigoola that Bail senses it, it quite simply screams wrong to him.

    Beyond this there is wonderful characterisation mixed with some real horror like a terrorist bombing of a skylane on Coruscant. Miller has a real skill for showing to us Jedi that are heroic yet flawed, possessed of powers beyond normal yet still all too human (as it were). At the same time she gives a truly chilling portrait of Darth Sidious and really emphasises what a duplicituous, lying psychopathic bastard he is. Finally, she does something unusual - I only notice it because others have drawn attention to it - but her characters converse at length, which is rare in a SW book. But it's so carefully crafted, you don't easily notice the art being displayed.

    9 out of 10.

    Get it, read it, enjoy it.
     
  17. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Discussion is for the discussion thread.
     
  18. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 264.05/32 = 8.25
     
  19. KarenMiller

    KarenMiller Author: -Wild Space star 1 VIP

    Registered:
    Mar 6, 2009
    A quick drive by post to say ... wow. Thank you, everyone, for your continued kind words. Jedi Ben, I'm blushing. But your timing's great *g* because right now I'm working through the rewrite on my next Clone Wars novel (soon to have an official title, I hope!). I'm having even more fun with this one than I did with Wild Space. My fingers are crossed that you'll like it, when it comes out next year.

     
  20. NelanisGhost

    NelanisGhost Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 24, 2006

    Thank YOU, Karen Miller. Most of us have been SW fans all our lives and I am no exception.

    In the words of C-3PO, I think I speak for all of us here: Wonderful! You are now a part of the tribe.

    [face_dancing][face_dancing][face_dancing][:D]

    Welcome! Don't doubt yourself! And don't worry, you're adopted. Thank you! You've given some of the more shining moments in the EU in a while....
     
  21. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Wild Space does some things very right and is deservedly praised for it. I'll get to that in a bit. But it does so many things so terribly wrong that I'm shocked no one has brought it up yet.

    The most important thing to know about Wild Space is that it's a horrifically extended hurt/comfort fanfic. EVERY SINGLE SCENE involves someone suffering overwhelming physical or emotional anguish. It's just obscenely melodramatic. You think I'm exaggerating. I'm not. The entire plot is centered around battering the characters. We see the fallout from Geonosis, with everyone aghast and suffering. Obi-Wan's stab in the leg? UNGODLY DREADFUL CRIPPLING WOUND. Then we fast forward. So that Obi-Wan can get hit by a bomb and suffer HORRIFIC INJURIES COMPLETE WITH GROANS OF TERRIBLE PAIN. And Anakin, distraught, rushes to his aid, filled with OH WHAT ANGST AND MENTAL ANGUISH YOU COULD NEVER COMPREHEND. Then we get to the main plot, which revolves entirely about an ENTIRE WORLD OF SUFFERING and all the DREADFUL WOUNDING AND UNBEARABLE EMOTIONAL AGONY inflicted thereupon. It's constant nonstop angst and suffering for every single character all the time. Everything is the cause of incredible, romance-novel-level melodrama complete with ridiculous melodramatic prose. The only breaks are when someone holds a sobbing friend and grief is abated through comforting each other.

    "With a shaking hand he retrieved the beeping comlink and acknowledged receipt of the communication. The beeping stopped. His apartment fell silent. So silent he could hear his hard-beating heart. Sweat prickled his skin. His breathing felt ragged. A spike of pain between his eyes woke to stabbing life."

    That's Bail Organa answering a comm call. What's driving this melodrama? I DON'T KNOW! It's late and he's tired. That's it. Where the hell does the head pain come from? It just makes the whole book a ridiculous, soppy, trashy mess.

    That's the book's overwhelming flaw, the one that makes me desperately want to WHTTATWJS it and put the YJK to shame. But there are others. For a book so intensely focused on characterization, I can't say the characterizations do anything for me. Bail Organa doesn't particularly feel like the Bail Organa we've been led to believe existed. Everyone's a bit too hard, too cold, too jerkish. Obi-Wan, Anakin, Yoda, Bail. Even Padme. I value adding some tension, not showing people as perfect, but it just rings rather hollow. The characterizations just plain don't click. The plot is equally unspectacular, featuring a sort of long muddling-about until they actually go off to Zigoola, which features a nonsensical bit with Sith artifacts taking over Kenobi's mind. Really? Get near the planet, and wow, those Sith are just taking you over? It's just obscenely melodramatic. Allston hit things about right with Ziost. This is way, way, way over the top, and is far too great a threat to be believable, especially in a wider EU context.

    That's not to say the book is bad, or Miller holds no potential. Some of the fanfic sensibilities are good. A greater look at the fallout of events -- I can't believe it's taken this long to get a look at the direct fallout from Geonosis. A focus on character interaction, on emotion. There are some things here which are valuable additions to the EU. But they're just drowned out by the horrible, horrible hurt/comfort melodrama. Miller absolutely, completely, without question, needs to tone that down. It's way, way out of hand, and it makes the entire book read like a Twilight fanfic (saying bad Twilight fanfic would just be redundant). The terrible trashiness needs to end, the characters need to stop all being hard-edged jackasses, and the plot needs to be stronger. I'd like to hope Miller can pull that off. Because there is something very valuable buried in here. But at the moment, it's buried deep.

    3/10.
     
    Valin__Kenobi likes this.
  22. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 267.05/33 = 8.09
     
  23. Topper_Harley

    Topper_Harley Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Aug 30, 2008
    I rather enjoyed it.

    8.1/10
     
  24. Point Given

    Point Given Manager star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 12, 2006
    I always like seeing more of Palpatine but Bail was annoying and Obi-Wan seemed like he was in a slash fiction half of the time. Anything else has been covered by Havac.

    4.8/10
     
  25. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 279.95/35 = 8.00