The JCF Grammar Hotline

Okay, I'm a bit confused about proper punctuation in dialogue. If someone could please clear this up for me.

For example,

?I like having you here, Jaina,? Jacen said softly. ?You know that, but I think you need to consider why you?re really here.?

That was how I would write that particular bit of dialogue. Ending the sentence in the middle and starting a new sentence with the next sentence of dialogue. My beta sent it back like this:

?I like having you here, Jaina,? Jacen said softly, ?You know that, but I think you need to consider why you?re really here.?


Now, I used to write like this example, but then I had another beta correct me. Now I'm really just confused. Can someone, please, tell me the rule or whatever about all of this?

 

Jaina_Solo_15: In that particular sentence you wrote as an example, the first version (the one with a period) is correct. But in general, both ways are possible. It depends on whether the two parts of direct speech are one sentence or two. In your case, it's one. If you write it down as the character would say it, it goes like this:

"I like having you here, Jaina. You know that, but I think you need to consider why you?re really here."

However, let's take a look on a sentence like this:

"On a second thought, why couldn't we just sneak outside without paying?"

In a story it would read thus:

"On a second thought," said Han, "why couldn't we just sneak outside without paying?"

After "doubtfully" there's a comma and the second part of the direct speech isn't a new sentence.

Hope I made that clear enough. I'm not very good in explaining things...

 

On a second thought? Or on second thought? I haven't seen the former before.

 

Okay. I think that helps a bit. Thank you.

 

I'm going over an old story for things that need correcting and am finding myself confused on certain things...

Such as when to capitalize words:
is it the force or the Force?
Padawan Learner or padawan learner
Jedi Knight or Jedi knight


And spelling issues...
lightsaber or lightsabre? I've seen both.
Also, I think someone had previously told me that Jedi plural is Jedi not Jedis but I wanted to check on that with others before I changed anything.

Can anyone help?

sg

 

I'm pretty postitive that it is the Force and Jedi Knight, but I'm not sure about the Padawan one. I'm assuming that it is Padawan learner, though.

I've seen it spelled lightsabre too, but in the Lucas books it's spelled lightsaber.

And the plural form for Jedi is indeed Jedi.

Hope this helps!

JS

 

one thing I wasnt sure about is if it's Jedi knight in one instance... (ie "The Jedi knight ignited his lightsaber.") but it's Jedi Knight in another... (ei: "Jedi Knight Qui-Gon Jinn ignited his lightsaber.") or if it was always either capitalized or not.

thanks for the answers though, yes that helps.

sg

 

*bump* Anyone have a reply for me on the above question?

sg

 

I think it's usually Jedi Knight, as "Knight" serves as a title in the Jedi Order.

 

Okay, another silly question...

is it Ardees or ardees?
Jawa Juice or Jawa juice?
Youngling or youngling? (are they even called younglings in the EU? I notice the OS refer to the Jedi children as being in "clans")

sg

 

Definently a good question... I'm curious too...

I will also add a question of my own. I found this quote on a gramamr website: "The quotation marks are double apostrophes, if you will, and if you quote something inside them, you use a single mark. This follows the conventions of American printers, as opposed to British"

So what's the British way?

 

I believe the British use single quotations marks and then double for quotes inside them.

It would be like this:

British:
Obi-Wan turned to Anakin. 'Master Qui-Gon always told me, "dreams pass in time," and I believe that is so.'

American:
Obi-Wan turned to Anakin. "Master Qui-Gon always told me, 'dreams pass in time,' and I believe that is so."

 

Hmm, that makes sense... thanks!

BTW, sg, CUSWE says Ardees and Jawa Juice, but doesn't have youngling. I dunno how much one can trust that, though, considering how few words in the encyclopedia AREN'T capitalized... then again, it is a list of proper nouns...

Edit: whoops. guess you can't trust the CUSWE after all.

 

On a second thought? Or on second thought? I haven't seen the former before.

OK, well, I'm a foreigner. Geez.

 

Okay I thought of where to look - the OS.

From the databank section on "Dex's Diner":

"Here, hard-working laborers come for a quick and home-style meal or a cup of freshly brewed Jawa juice or ardees,"

edit: Okay and now that I've gotten off my duff and thought of where to check this, in the AOTC novelization both Yoda and the narrator do refer to the children as "younglings" with no capitalization.

sg

 

Sorry if this has already been addressed. If so, I didn't see it.

toward vs. towards

What are the rules?

TIA!

 

I ran across this the other day.

Toward and towards (pronounce them either TORD[Z] or tuh-WORD[Z]) are Standard and interchangeable in meaning. American English uses both, but toward more often; British English uses towards more.


American Heritage Book of English usage

 

Because this probably shouldn't get locked, I'm bumping it up. I'm sure that it will be helpful for others in the future.

 

Unlocked and upped.

 

(Thanks for the unlock, Jade!)


I've got two questions / issues / concerns.



1) The proper use of the ellipsis (...)

Are there set rules? And do they differ in fiction? I know it's used to indicate if there's missing text. But I often see it used, and want to use it, to indicate that someone is slowing their speech, or thinking during dialogue. For instance: "Qui-Gon was a good teacher," Obi-Wan said, "he was always kind ... he never had a mean thing to say." Or something like: He was running ... he'd nearly reached the finish line ... just a few more steps ...

I also want to know if there's a difference between using an ellipsis and a dash to indicate unfinished dialogue:
"Anakin's a great warrior ..." Obi-Wan's voice trailed off as he heard a scream.
"Anakin's a great warrior--" Obi-Wan's voice trailed off as he heard a scream.



2) How to indicate a character's specific thoughts - use italics or not? I've flipped through some novels I have, but can't find an example. For instance, which of these would be correct:

Obi-Wan watched with pride as Anakin battled Dooku. The boy really has matured, he thought.
Obi-Wan watched with pride as Anakin battled Dooku. The boy really has matured, he thought.

Obi-Wan watched with pride as Anakin battled Dooku. You really have matured, he thought.
Obi-Wan watched with pride as Anakin battled Dooku. You really have matured, he thought.
Obi-Wan watched with pride as Anakin battled Dooku. You really have matured.

 

Happy_Hobbit_Padawan,

I am still unsure of the correct answer to your second area of concern so I won't answer for fear I may be wrong.

Regarding your question about the ellipsis, from what I remember:

An ellipsis represents deleted material in a sentence, such as speech trailing off as you mentioned.

Generally, even if the omitted material occurs at the beginning of a sentence an ellipsis is not used.

If the omission occurs within the sentence it is represented by three dots and has a space before and after it.

If it occurs at the end of a sentence it is represented by four dots and is not spaced before and after it.

For a strong break in the structure of a sentence, such as an abrupt halt in speech, break in thought, or a sudden change in tone, the em dash is commonly used and has no space before or after it.


I hope that this helps.

 

Even on the chance of sticking out my neck to far, I think if it's actual thoughts of a person you use italics.
So the second version would be correct.

Whereas constructions like 'Obi-Wan couldn't help thinking he really had matured' would be plain.

At least that's what my master gives me back for corrected.


On 'lightsabre' and 'lightsaber', the first is British Englisch, the second Amreican English. there are a lot of nasty, though tiny, differences between the two.

 

I'm looking for opinions on misplaced modifier phrases(participle, prepositional, whatever). I generally go by the rule that the modifier should always be as close as possible to the word it is modyifying, just to be clear about what if being modified.

But apparently there is some wiggle room to this rule? Such as, if it's really, really obvious what the modifying phrase is talking about, it doesn't have to be next to the modify-ee?


This one is obviously wrong.

Hiding in the crawlspace, the troop of clone troopers terrified him.


But is this one clear enough to pass, even though the 'beginning' phrase is next to 'salute'?

He lifed his lightsaber in a salute, beginning the fight that would decide his fate.

 

He lifed his lightsaber in a salute, beginning the fight that would decide his fate.

This probably would work. I've always been a fan of bending that rule as much as possible. If I was beta-ing and you were uncomfortable with it, I would suggest:

He lifted his lightsaber in a salute to begin the fight that would decide his fate.

or

The lift of his lightsaber into a salute signaled the beginning of the fight that would decide his fate.

 

This is not so much a question as a discovery, when I was getting a story reviewed, about when to use commas between adjectives.


Coordinate vs. Cumulative Adjectives

A "coordinate" adjective is one that modifies the noun in the same way as another adjective.

A "cumulative" adjective is one that requires a particular ordering to make sense.

Commas go between coordinate adjectives. They do not go between cumulative adjectives, nor between coordinate and cumulative adjectives.


So....

"He shut down the gleaming protocol droid."

....would not have a comma between the adjectives becuase you would not say....

"He shut down the protocol gleaming droid."

The adjective 'protocol' is treated as part of the noun 'droid'.


However....

"He never wanted to see that dry, dusty mositure farm again."

....would have a comma between the adjectives that can be interchanged as in....

"He never wanted to see that dusty, dry moisture farm again."

....BUT you wouldn't say....

"He never wanted to see that moisture, dusty, dry farm again."

....so there is no comma between 'moisture' and the adjective preceeding it. The adjective 'moisture' is treated as part of the noun 'farm' when placing commas.


This might a judgement call....

"Die, you little green troll."

....depending on whether you would say....

"Die, you green little troll."



Commas are often a problem for me, so I look for rules about when to use them.