PT The Jedi Code: Is it wrong to believe in these ideals?

Yet another case of demonizing a perfectly normal human emotion. Fear is part of care. Have you ever had children yourself? If so you might know that caring for a child always includes also fear of harm to him/her. No, not JUST fear, but INCLUDING fear. There is a difference! Fear is part of care, the other side of the same coin, you can't have one without the other. It is a basic human emotion. Without fear we would not protect ourselves from dangers. Why do you think evolution has allowed this one emotion to have survived so long if it were so evil? The primary function of fear is to protect. In the real world there is no such thing as "fearless". Everybody is afraid of something, whatever it may be. "If you are a Jedi you don't have a child"? But Jedi younglings have to come from somewhere right? Since they can't have relationships themselves they always have to rely on others to "donate" apprentices for them. They are DEPENDENT. If no one sacrificed their children to the order it would die out, simple as that. And what is behind children being born in the first place? Right, LOVE, sexuality and even ATTACHMENT, which for normal people is natural. So while they condemn these emotions they have no problems with taking children that are born out of just those emotions. Otherwise they might as well just clone or test-tube their babies themselves. Am I the only one who sees a contradiction there? The Jedi try to rid their apprentices of normal human emotions, which happen to include fear and attachment, yet rely on exactly those emotions to produce descendants to their institution to survive.

 

What's equally ironic, is that fear is the perception of danger. How do the Jedi percieve fear? Their perception is that fear is dangerous. In essence they fear these so called "negative" emotions, to such a degree that they collectively bully a little child for missing his mother.

 

"Fear is the path to the dark side"

"Anger, fear, aggression, the dark side are they"

Two quotes from the films that pretty conclusively condemn the emotions fear, and anger. While you might maintain the Jedi don't ban emotions, they clearly categorize them into "good" and "bad" emotions.

GL may have said many things, but in the end it's what's in the films that count, IMO.

 

IMO there is absolutely no reason for Yoda to believe Anakin's fear is out of control. Anakin was perfectly composed, more than you would expect from a child his age, being away from his mother for the first time, and on the other side of the galaxy. Yet, Yoda rebukes Anakin for having them. The Jedi don't just preach control of emotions. They preach fear, anger and hate are "bad" emotions that lead to the dark side.

The reality is that Anakin's fears were in control, until he started having dreams about his mother's impending death. Rather than rebuking Anakin for his fear, a fear that was justified, and one he was able to live with for a decade, they should have done something to relieve those fears. They left his mother in slavery, a dangerous situation, and expected their padawan to deal with it, with dire consequences. That is one of the less admirable realities of the Jedi philosophy.

 

So, why are you and "other people" right, and I and others who agree with my stand point wrong? Why would we need evidence, and not you? Some of us interpret the scene as a rebuke, and others don't. We have a difference of opinion, but your view is just as much an interpretation as mine. Also whether it was a rebuke or not, Yoda didn't preach about control of emotions (something that would apply to all emotions, not just fear and anger), Yoda condemned fear full stop. I reinterate: "fear is the path to the dark side". He didn't say "allowing fear to control oneself is the path to the dark side".

The Jedi knew Shmi was in danger, and left her there. I mean if she were to try to escape, they blow her up. How can not doing something about it not be malicious? They know Anakin has fears, he has exceptional powers, and has a cloudy future, yet they do nothing to improve the situation. To make matters worse, they let a rookie train this potentially dangerous "Chosen One". It was an accident waiting to happen.

 

I'd say the only reason we saw (few, the named characters) other Jedi experience the emotions that Yoda dismisses negatively is nothing to do with their beliefs as stated or that they can control them or anything like that, but a completely out-of-universe reason: to provide emotion in the film for the audience. In other words, it happens in order to provide engagement with the story. Discounting Anakin's more extreme emotions (violence, mass-murder, nightmares, arguing), everyone else experiences most of the same emotions and none appear to have any more control over them or show (most of the time anyway) awareness of their emotions in relation to what is stated in T.P.M.
Fact is that Yoda states that 'Fear', with no qualification given, is a bad thing that leads to the dark side.

 

Of course they are going to have these emotions. They are human after all. The Jedi wouldn't be the first group to preach one way, and act in another way. Mace Windu wanted to kill Palpatine, because he feared the senate would be to corrupt to deal with his enemy. However, their stance on the emotions of fear and anger are pretty clear cut, IMO.

 

No, they preach dualism, and view fear and anger are as bad emotions (which is IMO, what "fear, anger, aggression, the dark side are they" translates to). In essence they ironically fear these emotions, as they believe fear and anger ultimately lead to suffering.

 

With all due respect, but this is exactly the point DrDre and others are trying to make. We agree that fear should not overwhelm all other emotions or be the guiding force behind our actions. But that is not what happened when Yoda questioned young Anakin in TPM. All there was was a 9-year-old kid that not only got separated from his mother but thrown into a completely new environment with all kinds of things that might intimidate a kid that has never left his home planet. ANY normal kid would have been overwhelmed by what was going on around him. In no way was Anakin "dominated by fear" then. In fact I felt Anakin dealt pretty well with his situation for his age. So yes, he admitted to missing his mother, perfectly normal, and was criticized for that by Yoda. To be frank, I felt Yoda in that scene pretty intimidating, to a young child even threatening, only reciting Jedi dogma and not giving Anakin the least bit of real advice or showing any kindness. The Jedi are supposed to love all beings, even the enemy? There was a lot of love in Obi-Wan's sarcastic "another pathetic life form" or Yoda's relentless questioning, sure. Sorry, I don't see much of the Jedi's legendary "wisdom" anywhere in TPM, or AOTC or ROTS to be honest. They come across as judgmental, arrogant and emotionally aloof. I'm not sure if that was the image Lucas was trying to promote. They are not the wise and noble knights we had envisioned in the OT. I'm not condemning the PT or anything, in fact I'm a PT fan myself. But I think the Jedi have been intentionally portrayed as less than perfect, having flaws and weaknesses. I can't understand why there are so many Jedi apologists who try to defend the Jedi's every single action as wise and noble and beyond all criticism.

 

No, it's not good to let any emotion control you. There's nothing innately worse about fear and anger, than any other emotion. Any emotion can be used in a good way or a bad way. Should we not be angry at those who abuse children? Should we not fear for people in a war zone? Should we be happy when our competitor is murdered? It's not the emotion that is "good" or "bad". It's how we act on those emotions, that's what's important. This is why, it is difficult to understand Yoda's criticism of Anakin's fear for his mother. His fear comes from the love for his mother. This fear can be used for good. It can be a catalyst for Anakin and the Jedi to free his mother and others from slavery on Tatooine, yet the Jedi council appears more preoccupied with the Jedi dogma of the relation between fear and suffering, than the actual suffering on Tatooine.

 

What do you suppose they do in tatooine? Its way more complicated then just going on a crusade to free slaves

 

Nobody said that it was easy. However, I'm sure the Hutt's would be open to a deal, if it was profitable to them. In any case, the Jedi weren't very empathetic with this young former slave, who was forced to abandoned his mother. All they had to offer, was a cold and distant lecture on the danger of Anakin's fears.

 

Hard to empathize with something so foreign to their own experience.

 

People who dislike TPM are defending and sympathizing lil Ani, while the people who love it show that the jedi aren't rebuking anyone, revealing that their ideals aren't wrong.

Strange right? Just as what I expected out of you guys

And that is the reason!

That is why the Jedi said "NO" to Anikan! The reason this whole situation is so muddied is because of Qui-Gon..

That's the funny thing, most of you, are all right in a sense.

The Jedi understand more than what Anikan follows. Yoda knows of this occurrence of "Love and Fear". They know what path that leads to...

Did you know that fear is also bad for you? And fear is just a double bladed sword? Fear can help people realize certain things around their surroundings. But Anikan's Fear, was sensed by Yoda, much deeper..

There is a reason why Yoda and the Jedi said they will not take children from their parents...Everything in that scene explained it to us clear cut.

 

Perhaps, but a Jedi youngling is going to bond with his master in a similar way, that a child bonds to his parent. It was pretty obvious that Obi-Wan, who was ready for his trials, feared for his master when he was facing Darth Maul alone. It was equally obvious Obi -Wan attacked Darth Maul in anger after his master was stabbed. So, I don't see how that is any different.

Also, Luke was much older than Anakin was, when he was trained, and was prone to anger like his father. Yet, he made some very different choices that saved the galaxy in the end. So, apparently someone's destiny is not solely determined by their fear and anger at a very young age.

 

I can see where you are coming from, but Obi-Wan IS in a life OR death situation. He must use his surroundings and focus on the moment at hand...

Plus, the Fear did not overtake him Dre. Of course he was fearful, but it didn't consume him..

It's a bit different when it comes to Anikan's fear..

 

I don't see that it is very different. What I see is a boy with a natural fear for losing his mother, who is in a hairy situation. What I see is a boy, who subsequently controlled those fears, despite the Jedi doing nothing to help his mother, to become Obi-Wan's bright if somewhat arrogant student. What sets Anakin on a path to the dark side, is the trauma of losing his mother. This is something that could have been prevented, had the Jedi acted earlier, and brought Shmi to safety. The consequence of all this is, that Anakin is wrecked by guilt for not helping his mother, while he had to power to do so. So, while it's easy to blame Anakin for his predicament, the Jedi are also to blame. When they accepted Anakin as their student at that age, they should have taken responsibility for the protection of Anakin's mother as well, and not left her to rot.

 

Ah...How the Jedi should not have listened to Qui-Gon...

Of course it could have been prevented....By Anikan when it comes down to it..

Stated by Lucas in fact!

Not really...Even during the movie he still had fear of his mother. He didn't control it. He never controlled it. It was slowly overtaking him at that point.

The Jedi, and I say this again, superheroes. The whole political situation of saving people from slavery is not possible because tatooine is out of the jurisdiction.