The Jedi Council DID Insult Anakin By not Making him a Master....

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by obiwankoti, Sep 21, 2005.

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  1. Parparamia Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 17, 2004
    star 2
    The Council did not insult Anakin....though Anakin was insulted.....he was insulted...but not intentionally by the Council. It was showing Anakins slide to the dark side. Jedi do not practice their art for recognition but for the common good. Anakin was greedy and self centered. I believe that he was the only Jedi to talk about "His Powers"....and speak of them as if he owned them. Other Jedi see if fundamentally different, as the simbiotic relationship that it is. Anakin only wanted more....even from the beginning. A character flaw no doubt there by the will of the force ;).
  2. DUGGY Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2005
    star 4
    Oh now i get it. :p after 48 pages , it's all so simple. not.
  3. MOC Yak Face Moderator, Classic Trilogy

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2004
    star 4
    Considering Anakin's many un-jedi like character flaws, he should've considered himself very lucky to be given a place on the council at all. The fact that he got snotty about not being a master says a lot about his conceited, arrogant nature.
  4. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    It is that simple. Anakin's got pride and is greedy. He knows that he will not be made Master, but still finds himself feeling insulted, because of those things. Worse, he's jealous. All these things are unbecoming of a Jedi. Lucas makes it clear that it's simple. Anakin's too greedy and selfish in this scene. That's why he acts the way he does.
  5. Violetsaber Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 3
    [face_peace] Bingo!

    These things are just not as complicated as some people make them out to be.

    Violetsaber
  6. darth_frared Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2005
    star 5
    But he let go of his attachment to Anakin

    when does obi-wan let go? is it a conscious effort? because all i see is that he turns away from his friend and leaves him to rot. he's attached there, by your def because he cannot kill him.
    it goes against his jedi duty, doesn't it? it goes against the code of no attachments, doesn't it?
    it's called guilt.

    These things are just not as complicated as some people make them out to be.

    yeah, we just enjoy debate so much that we grab straws.
  7. jvberggren Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 4
    it certainly is simple.

    anakin was insulted, but lucas clearly tells us that his reactions were wrong.
    this scene is about anakin and his immaturity as a jedi -not about the council's inability to adapt to anakin's shortcomings or flaws as a jedi.
  8. darth_frared Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2005
    star 5
    this scene is about anakin and his immaturity as a jedi -not about the council's inability to adapt to anakin's shortcomings or flaws as a jedi.

    can we agree that it's about both and settle this?
  9. jvberggren Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 4
    can we agree that it's about both and settle this?
    that is something which i cannot do...

    at least not on the level some people are suggesting.
    the jedi did nothing wrong in addressing anakin in this manner.

    the additional scene where anakin admits he is the one who was out of place underlines who is the focus of this scene.
    it's all about anakin. but he does show wisdom and insight before saying goodbye to obi.
  10. darth_frared Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2005
    star 5
    the jedi did nothing wrong in addressing anakin in this manner.

    to me they did, but i guess we'll just have to disagree on this.

    it's all about anakin. but he does show wisdom and insight before saying goodbye to obi.

    yeah, he does show something.
    but does the council show anything. noho. :p
  11. jvberggren Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 4
    to me they did, but i guess we'll just have to disagree on this.
    i respect that. disagreeing is inevitable in this case.

    yeah, he does show something.
    but does the council show anything. noho.

    they show him the meaning of tough love, lol!

    seriously though, the way the jedi handle things might be criticised. i understand that of course, but in light of the fact that they don't know that there's another "teacher" corrupting what they have taught anakin for years, i don't see how the jedi can be blamed for not approaching anakin differently.

    remove sidious from the equation, and i believe anakin would've grown a lot more than he did.
  12. AnnLouise Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2005
    star 3
    =D=

    And it's not their job to cater to his ambition and make him a master.

    Even if they did insult him, so what?
    Grownups get insulted every day, and don't sell out their friends, kill children, and help enforce a brutal dictatorship as a result. Everyone in the working world has had a kind of experience where they feel insulted by a superior. What's important in that situation is not the actual insult itself, but how the injured person reacts and deals with what's happened. If Anakin had been using even a bit of sense he could've
    -talked to his wife to help understand the situation better
    -listened to the advice of his friend and mentor
    -looked at his future and perhaps changed his career plans in light of the incident.

    Anakin reaction is the crux of the matter. His reaction led to his seduction by the Dark Side.
  13. millenniumteacher Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2005
    star 2
    Anakin says that Palps has watched after him every since he arrived.
  14. voodoopuuduu Classic Trilogy Trivia Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2004
    star 5
    Oh now i get it. after 48 pages , it's all so simple. not.


    Yeah, because its page 58 on my screen. :D :D
  15. DUGGY Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2005
    star 4
    48 on mine. But nonetheless,

    It's so clear. I have seen the light Halleluyah! [face_dancing] . It's all Anakin's Fault. Praise the Force!. o_O NOT! :p .
  16. voodoopuuduu Classic Trilogy Trivia Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2004
    star 5
    48 on mine. But nonetheless

    Oh OK, thats easy to explain. Youre in a different time zone still on daylight savings time. :p :p Nah, Im just using the standard default of 25 posts per page, which I probably should change.
  17. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    He's left Anakin to burn. He will not survive. He has let go of the man who he once considered his brother and friend. He has accepted that he cannot turn him back from the Dark Side, nor will he make the effort on his own. He made up his mind when he says "Then you are lost."

    There is guilt, but also remorse. Obi-wan put too much trust and faith in Anakin, yet it blinded him to the truth. The boy was not mean to be a Jedi and he failed him and Qui-gon. Darth Vader is, for all intents and purposes, dead.
  18. Master_Shaitan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2004
    star 5
    Tony Blair of all people said something of relevance yesterday.

    "Sometimes its better to lose and be right (good) then to win and be wrong (bad).

    This to me is a good way of seeing what the Jedi do in ROTS:

    Had they not gone against their own code and asked Anakin to spy then they may have 'lost' but would be doing the 'right' thing. Opposed to getting Anakin to spy and 'winning' (or thinking they would win!) but doing the wrong thing.

    :-B
  19. Jedi-Queen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2005
    star 4
    "Had they not gone against their own code and asked Anakin to spy"

    That works for you if you believe in the whole going against the
    code bit. I prefer to think like some others; trying to gather counter
    intelligence was deemed neccessary.
    Anakin had no problem with spying on the Jedi b/c Palps worded it so
    Ani could not use that pea sized brain of his to read b/w the lines
    and see the request for what it really was - probably b/c as Obi-Wan
    said, he wanted it so it sat well with him.
    I wonder if he would have been as ticked off about spying on Palps
    if he was doing it as a Master and part of the council. I bet the
    request would have sat a lil better with him then :)
  20. Master_Shaitan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2004
    star 5
    That works for you if you believe in the whole going against the
    code bit. I prefer to think like some others; trying to gather counter
    intelligence was deemed neccessary.
    Anakin had no problem with spying on the Jedi b/c Palps worded it so
    Ani could not use that pea sized brain of his to read b/w the lines
    and see the request for what it really was - probably b/c as Obi-Wan
    said, he wanted it so it sat well with him.
    I wonder if he would have been as ticked off about spying on Palps
    if he was doing it as a Master and part of the council. I bet the
    request would have sat a lil better with him then


    YES! but we know what Palpatine is asking is wrong. Thats what Palpatine does. He's a sith. That doesnt make the jedi right about everything they do. Maybe anakin was stupid for not seeing it but would you if you were in his shoes? All Palpatine asked of him was to be the representave of the senate on the jedi council.

    But as i have said, this doesnt make the jedi right. It IS against the code. Anakin says it is and Obi Wan doesnt set him straight. So what the jedi are doing is against their code.

    Its very much like this issue with Blair and terroism at the moment. He's suggesting to lock up suspected Terroists without trial for up to 90 days. Now the outcome could result in a much safer society but is it not wrong to go against the core beliefs of a free country?
  21. Jedi-Queen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2005
    star 4
    "Anakin says it is and Obi Wan doesnt set him straight. So what the jedi are doing is against their code"

    Anakin says a lot of things that are incorrect and they're said to
    justify his actions or validate his behaviour.
    Obi-Wan was more concerned with consoling the poor misfit than
    arguing with him.
  22. Master_Shaitan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2004
    star 5
    Anakin says a lot of things that are incorrect and they're said to
    justify his actions or validate his behaviour.
    Obi-Wan was more concerned with consoling the poor misfit than
    arguing with him.


    So you are suggesting that at this moment Anakin is lying? I strongly disagree. Its clearly against the code. Do you think Anakin would think that he can just make stuff up in front of Kenobi and get away with it? Besides at this point Anakin isnt evil, he only begins justifying his evil after he turns.

    Spying on the chancellor, against a friend and a mentor is definitly against the code. I have no doubt of that.
  23. Jedi-Queen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2005
    star 4
    "So you are suggesting that at this moment Anakin is lying?"

    Not consciously, but he convinces himself so he can validate his
    behaviour. Especially considering the atrocities he committs.
    He needs to feel what he is doing is justified even if it's not.
    It has to suit his desire and agenda so he formulates reasons which
    support his decicions.
  24. Master_Shaitan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2004
    star 5
    So why didnt Kenobi pipe up and say - "Against the code? what are you on about?!"
  25. Jedi-Queen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2005
    star 4
    Not the time to argue. Obi was being fatherly and smoothing
    Ani's ruffled feathers.
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