Speculation The Jedi in the Sequel Trilogy

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by LawJedi, Nov 1, 2012.

  1. Sum-Wan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2013
    star 3
    I hope they pick up the EU concept that Luke's New Jedi Order doesn't follow the no attachment rule of the old Jedi. It makes sense to not limit the amount of potential force sensitives to only those that spontaneously appear but to improve the odds of having more by allowing Jedi to have offspring, thus passing their force sensitiveness on to the new generation in a time when the Jedi are almost extinct.
    LawJedi likes this.
  2. bstnsx704 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2013
    star 3
    Since the 'Jedi Temple' thread was just locked (for going off topic, I guess?), I figured I'd make this thread to speculate on the specifics of the New Jedi Order that will presumably be established in Episode VII and beyond.

    Will Luke's new generation of Jedi follow the same set of rules that the Jedi of the Old Republic followed? Will the new Jedi serve whatever new government is in place in the post-Empire era as they did with the Old Republic or will they be a separate entity? Will they operate out of the Jedi Council on Coruscant? Will they be allowed to love and to marry? And so on and so forth...Discuss away!

    Mav Edit: There have been several threads on this topic. Please check if there is already a thread before posting a new one. Since this thread has gone to a few pages, I'm going to merge it with a previous thread.
    Last edited by mavjade, Mar 16, 2013
    TreborSabreon and Episode Swag like this.
  3. DARTH_BELO Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2003
    star 4
    Actually, I thought it might work well if the New Jedi Order were an organization that is completely seperate from the Senate. Almost in the way church is separate from state, but where the New Republic would sometimes call on the Jedi order to help them with things-sort of like special agents/protectors that are asked to accompany senators on more dangerous missions, and less missions for simply political/negotiating purposes. Their headquarters would not be Coruscant, but some other planet which is strong in the Force. Okay, yes-perhaps Yavin. They simply dedicate their time to learning the ways of the living force, and serve to protect the galaxy against any evils that arise-but they are not involved in any political endeavors, like the Jedi order were in the old republic. I always felt the old republic Jedi were to politically connected. They would simply serve as a completely separate entity, not so closely involved with the goings on of the galactic senate, like before.

    I do like the idea in the Thrawn Trilogy, about how the politicians of the new republic were reluctant to allow Luke to reform a Jedi order and work closely with the senate, given what has happened before. That could make for an interesting story element, but if Episode VII takes place 30-40 years later, it may be too late for that...
    thesevegetables and Episode Swag like this.
  4. Episode Swag Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 9, 2013
    star 1
    I'll support this topic considering I was looking forward to lurking the previous one. Here's my post from that one plus some extra stuff.

    Everyone here seems to assume that there will be a new Jedi order to begin with. But heck, maybe after the war people will still hate the Jedi. I'm thinking something akin to what happens in the Legend of Korra. Ie, people hate all kinds of force users because they blame them on all the previous wars that have happened. Which is kind of true, the Sith were behind the clone wars and the galactic civil war, but the Jedi fueled the fires. Because of this, maybe Luke won't want to train any more Jedi because they would just have to go into hiding.

    Yeah I know this is probably unlikely, but hey you never know.

    I think that if there is a temple it should be on a very remote and unknown world. One kind of like Pandora from Avatar in the sense that it's filled with peace and creatures. It would be a metaphor for the living force and allow the new Jedi to surround themselves with life. Also Luke and the Jedi should keep the location of the temple a secret in case another order 66 happened. With them being in a remote and unknown planet, it's safe to say their secret will be kept very well for a long time.

    Extra: I like the idea of there being only a few new Jedi instead of a lot of them. It allows for us to center on a select few awesome characters rather than us having a bunch of Jedi that we see but don't know anything about like in the PT.

    As for whether they should be able to marry or not, I guess it could really go either way. Luke does go against the orders of Obi wan and Yoda in Empire because he wants to save his friends. But his mentors argue that he should lose his attachments to those he loves. His very training also goes against the rulings of the council because he's too old to be trained. So like you said in the old topic, he does have the making to be more of a different leader of the Jedi than the old.

    Thing is, there are two big pros and cons for the whole marriage thing. On one hand, marriage and fear of loss is ultimately what drove Anakin to the dark side. But at the same time, there most likely wont be a lot of Jedi at this time, so procreation among them could be a good way to make more Jedi secretly. After all midichlorians are genetic, so this would make sense. Plus, Leia would be able to become a Jedi if marriage is allowed considering she probably married Han by now. Would Luke not teach her if he banned Jedi marriage? It's all a very interesting topic in its own right. I hope the movies don't mess this up one bit.
  5. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    The Jedi could be something that people no longer want in the galaxy, they could want Luke to move into the Courscant temple and make things the way they used to be. Its one of those things were both direction can be equally argued for.

    I don't see having Jedi have children as a way to grow the order faster. They can still go out and find children to train without having them themselves.

    Who says Leia is a Jedi? Or maybe her and Han aren't married, at some point she had to choose and she choose the Jedi. Just another way the story could go.
    Episode Swag likes this.
  6. DARTH_BELO Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2003
    star 4
    Interesting idea, but I would have to think that Luke would be training more Jedi-he was told to do so by Yoda. And what would be the point of ANY Jedi, if there were always only going to be one or two?

    Unless the writers/producers would just have us believe and accept that Luke simply just went against Yoda's wishes, which doesn't seem to make sense to me.
    Last edited by DARTH_BELO, Mar 15, 2013
  7. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    When was Luke told to train more people by Yoda? And I doubt Yoda would want the training to be done half-assed. Jedi in the PT era trained for 20+ years before they were Jedi for a reason. I think its a little unrealistic to expect Luke to have more then a couple students 30 years or so after RotJ, if if takes 20 years for someone to become a Jedi.
    Episode Swag likes this.
  8. bstnsx704 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2013
    star 3
    Excellent ideas guys. I agree that it would be very interesting if Luke's Jedi were not as closely linked to the senate as the Jedi were up until their 'betrayal' and Order 66. Also, having only a few Jedi would be a very intriguing concept as well. From a filmmakers' point of view, because more focus can go into each individual, but also from an in-universe perspective. Seeing a new Jedi Order being built from the ground up, learning from the mistakes and failures and corruption of the previous one, would make for an awesome backdrop to whatever the main plot is in Episode VII.

    "Pass on what you have learned."
    Darth Chiznuk and Episode Swag like this.
  9. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    Pas son what you have learned is far from "establish a new Jedi order", which is what Belo was getting at.

    I do think, after seeing how old Obi-wan was in TPM and not being a Jedi. Seeing how long Anakin had to be a Padawan, seeing children training in the movies and TCW etc... that a lot of the audience would question things if Luke has more then a couple Jedi with him in the ST. I wouldn't be surprised if there is one other Jedi Knight and Luke is trianing Han and Leias kid - Luke dies at some point and that Knight takes over the training of Han and Leias kid.
    Episode Swag likes this.
  10. GODLIKE Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2012
    star 1
    I don't think there should a jedi order just a few jedi that have been trained by Luke living a normal life and really no knowing there are jedi in the galaxy. Maybe there are also order 66 survivors that have trained their own students and these jedi follow a different code than Lukes jedi.
  11. bstnsx704 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2013
    star 3
    Not sure how I feel about Order 66 survivors, since the films seem to imply that Obi-Wan and Yoda are the only two Jedi who survived the attack.

    I'd be able to buy that there were a few Jedi in hiding during the time between Revenge of the Sith and A New Hope that were hunted down by Darth Vader, but I think it is a bit far fetched to think that there were more Jedi around during the time of the Original Trilogy who just sat around doing nothing until the war was over. Obi-Wan and Yoda had the excuse of going into hiding to ensure the protection and eventual training of Luke and Leia; other survivors of Order 66 wouldn't have that excuse.
  12. LunarMoth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2012
    star 4
    For whatever reason, I am all but convinced that part of the storyline will involve a little tension between Luke and Leia that stems from Lukes desire for the Jedi to "not get involved" when it comes to government, while Leia wants the Jedi to have a role in the New Republic.

    Just thinking out loud......
  13. GODLIKE Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2012
    star 1
    There could of been survivors that just stop being jedi thats why they didn't do anything to stop the empire. They could of still passed on the knowledge though
  14. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    There won't be any Jedi left over from the PT's. We are told over and over against the OT that the Jedi are gone, to sudden have some back would undermine the OT.

    Whatever for the Jedi take in the ST, it will all come from Luke.
  15. Force Smuggler Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 5
    Have to agree with you on this one. Hate that part of the EU where several PT era Jedi pop up years later. OT era is fine and a bit after but not 30-40 years later or 130 years later.
  16. run_luke_run Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2004
    star 3
    I like your idea, LunarMoth...we seem to have a lack of credible points of tension and conflict, but I think yours was spot on there as a possibility.

    For one, I do not want to see any survivors that pop up. I would really like to see Luke and Leia be the re-birth of a New Jedi Order.

    The most significant difference in a new order would be getting rid of the Old Jedi Order's downfall; the idea that Jedi cannot marry/have relationships.
  17. MillionthVoice Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2013
    star 1
    Why does everyone have this idea? If anything, ROTS devotes valuable time to showing us Obi-Wan and Yoda returning to the temple and placing a warning against returning to the temple for any survivors.
    So to me this suggested that there might well be more surviving Jedi than we thought before ROTS. Why else waste screen time on it?

    This, and in ANH Obi-Wan says "now, the jedi are all but extinct".
    He also says "I was once a Jedi knight same as your father"
    So Jedi gone doesn't necessarily mean Jedi dead.
    Last edited by MillionthVoice, Mar 15, 2013
  18. bstnsx704 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2013
    star 3
    Its possible that a few Jedi other than just Obi-Wan and Yoda made it out alive, but they would have had to have been killed in the time between Revenge of the Sith and A New Hope. I wouldn't mind a spin-off film set between the two movies about the final days of some of the remaining Jedi; would be a cool way to bring Vader back in some capacity as well.
  19. darthtuttle Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2004
    star 4
    I could see Luke struggling to seek knowledge on how to run his order. He has very little to reference. His training was by two guys in exile. There was very little structure or reference. He would look at the history and try to understand what made the old order fall. He does not have much to go by. Force ghosts might be useful.
  20. GODLIKE Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2012
    star 1
    Im not saying actual survivors should show up in the movies what im saying what if there were survivors maybe they decided to build a new order in secret instead of going on to fight the empire. Maybe there are jedi in the new movies that were taught by survivors of order 66
    DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR likes this.
  21. bstnsx704 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2013
    star 3
    I understand what you're saying. I just find it very hard to believe that, if any other Jedi made it out of that incident alive, they wouldn't to whatever is in their power to assist the Rebels and go up against the Empire and the Sith.
    DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR likes this.
  22. Jedi with a TARDIS Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2013
    Well, much to learn I still have I guess when it comes to making a thread, but I'm glad it led to this topic. I'm guessing there will be little, if any, new Jedi by the time of Episode VI. The idea of Order 66 survivors appealed to me at first, it was a nice visual picturing any exiled Jedi returning to the Temple - sort of like the Lighting of the Beacons in Lord of the Rings - but now I think it would create more problems than anything else. They'd be trying to make Luke follow the old ways, and that's just a recipe for disaster.

    I'd like for Luke to just concentrate on teaching his kid(s) about the Force - and by route eliminating that stupid "no marriage" rule. The Jedi got pretty stupid in the PT (come on, at least Obi-Wan knew Anakin had the hots for Padme, but he lets him basically take a romantic vacation with her unaccompanied? Strong with the Force THEY WERE!) The trick is to find a balance between your attachments and your duty, which is why I'd like Luke to be able to do that with a family of his own. Basically, he'd be homeschooling as opposed to being shipped off to boarding school.
  23. DARTH_BELO Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2003
    star 4
    Yoda told Luke verbatim to "pass on what he has learned."

    I am having a hard time seeing any good reason why there shouldn't be more jedi. I didn't mean that within 30 years Luke has trained hundreds or thousands of seasoned Jedi masters, but there's no reason that he wouldn't have many students over the course of three or so decades-even if they are still students. All at different levels. Even if he didn't start gathering candidates for 5-10 years, it could still work. BTW, it didn't take until every Jedi was 30-40 years old to achieve knighthood at least, I'm sure-so even for fully trained Jedi, 30 years IS a reasonable amount of time.

    I never really liked the idea of having only Luke be a Jedi-or Luke and a couple others. Really? Only a couple Jedi to protect the WHOLE galaxy? It just doesn't seem like it would benefit anything. Sure not thousands, but what's wrong with 50? Or even a couple hundred? I would imagine fans in general would want to see a newly restored Jedi ORDER, rather than more of the same: One Jedi responsible for everything.

    Then again, what we actually will see is anyone's guess still at this point.
  24. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 4
    I liked that idea, but it creates the problem of why didn't they get involved in the Rebellion — and why didn't Vader or the Emperor, or even Obi-Wan and Yoda for that matter sense them if they were training others in the Force. It would have created ripples in the Force, no?

    Nah. I think it's fair to say the recalibration of the return home message was too late and that only Obi-Wan and Yoda had survived the purge. And if there were a few that survived Order 66? Well, I'm guessing Vader eventually found and destroyed them, too.

    But still, the notion of a secret Jedi Order in hiding is something I've never thought about before. It has enormous potential, but I can only picture it as a group with a different outlook on life as compared to what it was like before — maybe almost Sith like. Who knows, but maybe this is what they're aiming for in the Sequels.
    Last edited by DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR, Mar 15, 2013
  25. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 4
    Nah, guy. There were many reasons why they should have gone back. Just because they showed them recalibrating the message it doesn't mean it would have worked. They're Jedi. They had to try anyway, right? And besides, they needed to find out what really happened and who was responsible. And in doing so their purported deaths gave them the element of surprise, which they hoped that in a desperate last minute attempt to save the Republic would have gained them victory over the Sith. So you see, they had to get to the temple on Coruscant as fast as possible to find out details anyway, and so showing them in the Temple changing the message was only something they could hope to do at that time, but the real reason was to confront the Sith if they had revealed themselves.
    Last edited by DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR, Mar 15, 2013
    Episode Swag and Darth Chiznuk like this.