CT The Jedi Rule of Two in the OT

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by LunarMoth, Jun 2, 2013.

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  1. LunarMoth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2012
    star 4
    This always gets a rise out of people I discuss this with, but that is not the reason I am posting it here......

    As we await the ST, this comes to my mind as part of the "formula" of Star Wars, and what we might expect in the future.

    We all know the Rule of Two to be a Sith institution, but did the Jedi not use the same logic in the OT to overcome the oppression of Palpatine's Empire?

    For 1,000 years, the Sith were in hiding waiting for the time to strike. The time to reveal themselves to the Jedi. Timing is everything, right? When that time came, the Sith came out of hiding and the rest is PT history.

    Ep I gave us Sidious and his apprentice Darth Maul.
    Maul was killed and replaced with Dooku.
    Dooku ate it and was replaced with Vader.

    Only two.... no more, no less. One has to assume that there is a reason for this, and that reason most likely has something to do with alerting the Jedi of their presence.

    I have always seen the Jedi in the OT as doing the very same thing. Especially in ANH when Ben sacrifices himself for the sake of Luke and company's escape. He had introduced Luke to the ways of the force, making Luke a third to Ben and Yoda, one had to go or the Sith would become aware of their existence.

    When the time was right, the Jedi revealed themselves to the Sith.

    Further, Yoda, as old as he was, had to die because Luke was going to attempt to bring back Anakin, and when that happens, and only then, the Emperor would be defeated.

    ANH gave us Yoda and his apprentice, Obi-Wan
    Obi-Wan was killed and replaced with Luke
    Yoda, be it the Jedi Master in this case, has to go as Anakins return would out-rank Luke.

    The Rule of Two was alive and well with the Jedi in the OT if you ask me.......
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  2. SlashMan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2012
    star 3
    While it was true that only two surviving Jedi were planning for the resurgence of their order in exile, it was only by coincidence that those Jedi died at their particular times, and left only two at a time.

    Could be intentionally mirroring the tactics of the Sith, but I think it's just coincidence.
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  3. Darth Liberatus Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2013
    The Rule Of Two is intended to concentrate power, not to keep the Sith hidden from the Jedi. The Jedi don't intentionally follow the Rule Of Two, but as SlashMan alluded to, it could be an intentional parallel on George Lucas's part.
  4. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    ANH did not give us Yoda. Yoda was introduced in ESB. Nor was Obi-Wan ever Yoda's apprentice.

    The rule of two was as @Darth Liberatus said used to concentrate power, keep the Sith hidden, and stop them from infighting and destroying themselves by struggling for power.

    The Jedi do not have this problem as they are not elitist like the Sith, and Jedi do not inevitably turn on each other but rather work together as a family. The more Jedi there are, the more powerful they are, the same can't be said for the Sith.
  5. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    "Much anger in him, like his father."
    "Was I any different when you taught me?"

    AoTC clarified that Yoda teaches most (all?) young Jedi- but before the apprentice stage. Still- it was a logical conclusion at the time of ESB that Obi-Wan was Yoda's apprentice.
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  6. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    So essentially..ANH did not give us Yoda. Yoda was introduced in ESB. Nor was Obi-Wan ever Yoda's apprentice..
  7. LunarMoth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2012
    star 4
    Obviously Yoda was not seen by the audience until Ep V, but we now know he was alive. Obi-Wan may not have "officially" been his apprentice, but Yoda surely out-ranks Obi in the big picture, and he did have to teach him how to communicate with Qui-Gonn..... So for all intents and purposes, we was, at very least, apprectice like. Point is, he was still a student of teachings from Yoda.
    Last edited by LunarMoth, Jun 3, 2013
  8. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    Wouldn't even be having this conversation if things had gone differently...Ben wasn't originally written to die in ANH, and presumably would have been Luke's teacher all the way to ROTJ.

    In addition to putting terror in the hearts of Imperials facing General Kenobi. :p
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  9. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    Exactly. And we know by ANH that the Jedi were the guardians of peace and justice, which implies more than two.
  10. LunarMoth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2012
    star 4
    Yes, more than two at that time, just as the Sith were more than two at one point as well.
  11. SlashMan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2012
    star 3
    Your right in the fact that the Sith and the Jedi did this out of necessesity, as unnecessary recruits would bring unwanted attention.

    But with the Jedi, Luke was their last chance; they weren't waiting on anyone else (arguably Leia also had the potential, though).
  12. MOC Yak Face Moderator, Classic Trilogy

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2004
    star 4
    I thought the Rule of Two was to stop a mob of mediocre Sith taking out an exceptional one by weight of numbers and hence losing the quality operative. With the RoT the only way a quality Sith could be taken down was by a better quality one ... or killing him in his sleep ... Not so relevant for the Jedi as they weren't so prone to taking each other out.

    Re the RoT in the OT - I'd say not even thought of at that point.
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  13. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    So essentially the key to the dark throne is being able to stay up really late.
  14. TOSCHESTATION Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2003
    star 4
    :p
  15. MOC Yak Face Moderator, Classic Trilogy

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2004
    star 4
    Pretty much. Good at cackling, being British and superhuman powers of foresight also an advantage.
  16. Rachel_In_Red Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 12, 2013
    star 2
    I think you might be reading a little too much into it.
  17. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    BEN: There you will learn from Yoda, the Jedi Master who instructed me.
  18. MRCynical Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 2008
    star 1

    Obi-Wan's "reckless" stage was in his youth. So by asking "was I any different when you taught me?" he was clearly referring to his youth.
    Last edited by MRCynical, Jun 6, 2013
  19. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    Yoda: Remember, a Jedi's power flows from the Force.
  20. Master Jedi Macen Arren Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2013
    star 1
    No it was not alive and well, it was just mere coincidence. The rule of two was to stop the Sith from killing each other to gain power (and yes even that didn't stop them killing each other), But that was the reason it was implemented. The Jedi never had any intention of the rule of two before or after the OT.
  21. Michael McKean Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2013
    star 1
    It was only accidental that there was two Jedi to begin with in ANH - Yoda and Kenobi. Whereas the Sith voluntarily numbered themselves to two.
  22. LunarMoth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2012
    star 4
    I'm not so sure it was accidental. The saga is full of mirroring situation, and this would just be another. It would also be quite a coincidence for the progression of two to accidental fall in line. Not to say its impossible, but quite coincidental.

    I would not be surprised at all if in fact the two Jedi situation i the OT was actually the inspiration for the Sith Rule of Two when it was created by GL.

    Coincidence, perhaps. But you cant say its not there.
  23. Michael McKean Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2013
    star 1
    It is very interesting indeed. And you are right about the saga being filled with 'mirroring situations'. It perhaps goes to show that the apparent gulf between 'good' and evil' is not actually very clear and is perhaps contradictory. For example, in ANH the rebels are initially portrayed as dirty, informal (i.e the banter between Luke and Solo) and improvisational, but then that all changes at the ceremony at the end of the film where we see the rebels as highly organized, formal and ritualistic, quite similar to the Empire.
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