Characters The Jedi Way - Jedi Discussion Thread - Jedi and the Force in The Clone Wars

Discussion in 'Fan Fiction and Writing Resource' started by The_Jedi_Index, Feb 10, 2008.

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  1. The_Jedi_Index Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2006
    So, I've been wondering what meditation really does do for Jedi....

    - getting closer to the Force
    - mental focus
    - discipline
    - stress reduction

    I generally assume that good mental focus and specific training is essential for a person recognize their Force capabilities, otherwise one might grow up with no knowledge of what they can do, like Luke. Without the right mental focus, force ability could be easily mistaken for just really good instincts and reflexes.

    And mediation might be like mental flossing for Jedi. They have to keep it up to keep a clear mind to use the Force. Clutter up your mind with the tooth decay to too much stuff and without good focus, the Force just slips away.
  2. The_Jedi_Index Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2006
    Hmmmm, meditation didn't really catch anyone's attention, so now I'm wondering......why do Jedi wear robe?

    On a broader scale, there seems to be some kind of dress code for Jedi. It seems to be informal and not very strict. But you don't see anyone wearing loud colors (unless it's the natural skin tone) or anything but symbolic decoration or jewelry. What would a Jedi dress code be? Could it actually be part of the Jedi code, or is it something unwritten or just traditional?
  3. karebear214 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 7, 2002
    star 4
    I would tend to lean more the unwritten tradition route than something actually codified - in one of my stories I explained the robe thing as being because "...the clothing was so plain that it could not possibly stand out, no matter where the Jedi happened to find himself. Missions were assigned with little to no notice, so extravagant packing lists and shopping sprees were simply not an option."

    It's hard to be offended by brown robes in the same way bright/loud/obnoxious colors or styles can draw negative attention. It also provides a sort of sight-see identification for anyone interacting with them "Ah, that's a Jedi.", that still allows them to blend in when the situation calls for it. I see it as similar to the way priests wear black shirts with white collars, it's a handy and practical identifier that's still comfortable to walk around in.

    Plus, brown robes are a dress code that works for the wide range of species and genders that the Jedi Order encompasses.
  4. GeneralKenobi7 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 18, 2009
    star 4
    Besides those robes seem to be comfortable:p
  5. ardavenport Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2004
    star 4
    Comfortable.......hmmmmmmm......woolly Jedi robe on Tatooine. Maybe not so comfortable. OTOH, we know that all GFFA clothes are make out of miracle material that can go from soaking wet to perfectly dry in less than 2 minutes. So, the robes could be make of wonderful stuff that is comfy in all weather/temperatures.

    I agree that Jedi dress is probably traditional. Along with the robe, the tabbards, obi, stole or apron that they all seem to wear has some significance to Jedi. That part of Jedi clothes perhaps has religious symbolism to the Force? Perhaps the variations are determined by species? Passed on master to padawan?

    I assume that they all wear belts because they need a place to hang their lightsabers.;)
  6. brodiew Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2005
    star 5
    Has any one ever considered the Jedi robes as a deterent to physical sexual attraction. They are quite baggy and attachments were forbidden. Some say sex was not, but for the sake of argument, I'll say celibacy is probably wiser. Thus, robes.

    :p
  7. Valairy Scot Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Talk about a plot bunny! Upon puberty, each initiate/padawan is gifted a robe, thus announcing what shall not be revealed. ;)
  8. ardavenport Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2004
    star 4
    Hmmmmmm, if that were the case then Aayla Secura must have skipped that day in class. [face_laugh] Does she even have a robe I wonder? And then there's Ahsoka Tano. Same problem. Perhaps they have robes stashed somewhere in their rooms and only drag them out for special occasions when they have to?

    I wonder if the robes do have any symbolic meaning, like the lightsabers?
    Perhaps symbolizing humility? Lack of attachments? Anonymity? Or lack of fashion sense? ;)
  9. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    What I never will understand is how they manage to fight in all that mass of textile. I couldn't, that's for sure. [face_thinking] But they have the Force of course... :p
  10. ardavenport Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2004
    star 4
    Well, they do dramatically throw off their robes before the big fight with Maul and Obi-Wan tosses back his robe before he starts the fight with Vader. So, I suppose that when they're really serious they lose the robe. ;)
  11. Sebastian_Thyr Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2009
    It's my understanding that, because the Jedi originated in a monastic order in the way back, they probably had a "codified" set of dress robes for study and meditation. They weren't concerned with battle or anything strenuous at the formation of their order, they were studying this new "Force" thing and meditating. They presumably spent hours at a time kneeling or sitting on stone floors and in generally uncomfortable places. So a heavier and layered robe would have been a boon to these ancient scholars. Alright, let's fast forward a generation or two, the schism where both Dark and Light Jedi are "born". It's been long enough for traditions to be created amongst this Order and once a break has been made these traditions become even more important to the group who most feels they're staying true to the original intent of their formation. Thus the Jedi Order as we know it would have held very deeply to the original robes because it was a stylistic, visual departure from their dark brethren.

    Alright, let's push forward through time, right up to the known Jedi Order. Tradition still holds strong and all the Jedi have their own official robes. Of course with time and expansion they have accepted many new races and cultures into the fold and are less "monastic" in feeling. So Jedi are allowed to wear whatever they want (within reason of course) especially if the mission calls for something less bulky and less restrictive than their full formal robes. On diplomatic type missions the full robes, while not required, are probably preferred because they mark the desire to avoid conflict and, at least to us, are obviously Jedi in nature. With the fall of the Jedi Order and the rise of the Empire the remaining Jedi would have held on to their robes secretly, but probably tried to never use them openly lest they draw the wrong kind of attention.

    In Luke's New Jedi Order the tradition of the robes is brought back mostly through Luke's reverence for his old teachers I'd imagine, but for the most part I have the feeling that robes are not really a tradition for awhile. By the time we reach the Sith Empire during the Legacy era with Cade and Emperor Fel etc, there are some who hold on to the rapidly fading traditions and beliefs of the (now "old") Jedi Order and see it as a piece of themselves that they refuse to let go of. It's a part of their identity in a changing Galaxy.

    Ok...that was probably way more thought than anyone was looking for. But there you have it, my thoughts on the reason Jedi wear those particular robes. Umm...as a brief aside, does anyone know where I might find good information on pre-Empire Jedi Youngling training? I understand that the Younglings are placed into a clan between the ages of 4 and 8, and then at the age of 13, if they haven't been selected as a Padawan yet, they are given over to the Service Corps. Well what happens between 8 and 13? Are they still "learning the basics" with their clan? Or are they being utilized by the Service Corps until such time as they are chosen, and if they aren't chosen then the Corps has an idea where to place them? Any help would be appreciated, I like to get some research done before I write anything.
  12. ardavenport Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2004
    star 4
    For Old Republic Jedi information there is a 'Jedi vs. Sith' book out that seems to be a compilation of all Jedi/Sith canon history. I'd look for that for any information about training.

    Yep, I think, in the end it is tradition that keeps Jedi in their robe. It's either that, or they're just big security blankets. :)

    Oooooooooooooooh, we got some Jedi action in the latest Clone Wars cartoon. And elderly Jedi helps Ahsoka retrieve her lightsaber. Very nice lesson in patience. And not losing one's lightsabers.

    They should skip all this clone stuff and just do the cartoons about Jedi. I'd watch that. :D
  13. earlybird-obi-wan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 21, 2006
    star 6
    and robes should be proper for ceremonies like in the hall of fire

    [image=http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk124/earlybird-obi-wan/forcenetart/aaquilin15.jpg]


    or at the beginning of a tournament

    [image=http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk124/earlybird-obi-wan/forcenetart/aaquilin50.jpg]
  14. ardavenport Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2004
    star 4
    Yes, I think that Jedi would wear their robes for special/formal occasions, though they wear them all the time, too.

    But I wonder if Jedi really have tournaments? Would Jedi be very competitive?

  15. Jedi_Master_Cazz Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2005
    star 4
    I would assume the Jedi may have tournaments, between Youngling Clans and Padawans to further their rankings within their age groups, like a physical test. I think I read that saber tournaments were one of the ways Initiates were chosen buy a Master, but I may just be remembering somebody else's interpretation rather than remembering old canon or even 'sub-canon.'

    But actually, the Jedi Robes thing is something that's been on my mind, when we say 'robes' do we mean the brown robe or the whole outfit. Somehow I see it as the whole outfit. I really like what the Clone Wars has done in terms of Jedi dress, we see Obi-wan wearing what is essentially his usual robes (showing his more traditional side,) but with Clone armor, and Anakin in an entirely different outfit (which shows his more practical side.) I really like that they were dressed for the occasion, which is warfare. And as for Ahsoka, I believe (this isn't canon, and I think I may have picked this up from someone else [face_blush]) she wears (or doesn't wear :p) what she wears because of her species, The idea was that Togruta's have a higher body temperature than Humans, thus needing to expose more skin to regulate their temperature in a climate best suited to Humans, and I like this idea. Just as long as she isn't dressed they way she's dressed to be an out-universe sex symbol. I dunno about Twi'leks, I think it's likely culture. Togruta's have their cultured dress as well, such as the Akul teeth and the like.

    Having said that, I think Ahsoka would definitely have her own set of Jedi robes for formal occasions off the battle field. Shaak Ti did, even though she had her own personal, cultural flares, they were Jedi robes. (And to the outside observer, the difference is probably not that recognized.)

    If you look at the Council, they all wear formal robes, to a point, so, it's understandable that that's what Obi-wan would wear in ROTS when he is placed on the Council. Because Anakin is now officially assigned off the front lines and to be Palpatine's representative, he also wears formal robes as he is a Jedi representative being seen out and about on Coruscant and more importantly, in the Senate. As an unwritten rule, I think Jedi usually wore their formal robes on Coruscant as it's the Capital and they essentially are representing their Order. Same goes for the two of them in AOTC, they're essentially representing their Order to Senator Amidala.

    What I really wanna know is, are they're different types of formal robes that differentiate between a Padawan and a Knight? Because I really love this idea. If you look at the Younglings, they don't really wear robes, they've got a round neck long sleeve shirt and then one wrap around robe with an obi and a belt and suede sewn booties. I'm definitely toying with the idea that a set of full formal robes is yet another mark of an apprenticed Jedi. As one who has worn Kimono, I can tell you that keeping wrap-around collars all straight and tidy is a LOT harder than it looks, perhaps being gifted their robes along with their apprenticeship is another mark of discipline? The discipline of learning to wear these multiple layers, that very well may hold thousands of years of tradition and meaning, in a neat and noble fashion, presenting a crisp, clean-cut and efficient image to the public?

    I noticed that in TPM, Obi-wan's robes have a rounded shoulder, Qui-gon's did too, but in AOTC, Obi-wan had gained a very cool and fancy tuck in the shoulders of not only his robes, but also his cloak (One reason why I think Obi-wan had the coolest Jedi outfit of them all.) While this may be the simple refinement from movie to movie in the costumes, I love the idea of this being some sort of badge of maturity. The only problem being, Qui-gon didn't have this, and, seeing as how Anakin DID in AOTC, Obi-wan should have during TPM. I'm pretty certain it's the change in the construction of the costumes, in TPM the fabric volume and seam and hem weighting is a lot lighter and less full than in AOTC and to a greater extent, ROTS. The t
  16. darkladypurplepencil Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 16, 2006
    star 2
    A couple thoughts on the robes and other dress code aspects that Mast Cazz brought up...

    First point, having lived in the Northeast, Southeast, Southwest and Midwest, I've gotten quite accustomed to several different clothing tricks particularly useful when lacking central air.

    Someone mentioned wooly robes on Tatooine. First of all, the robes aren't necessarily wool. I'm fairly certain sheep only exist on Endor and Naboo, so wool as we know it is probably not very widespread. If the robes were made out of something closer to muslin/cotton, then having a few layers of that wouldn't be at all bad. In a desert climate like Tatooine, long sleeves are actually a good idea. They protect your skin from harsh rays; also, the moisture from your sweat clings to the fabric thus taking it longer to evaporate, keeping the skin cooler. In a more humid climate, having done some Civil War/Colonial reenactment in NC and VA (don't mock), I can tell you that the layers people wore back then were not just for modesty and style. The moisture from the air and sweat clings to the inner fabric and is then insulated by the outer layer, thus creating what is now a very complex body suit cooling system. As long as the fabrics can breathe, so your skin is not completely isolated from the air, you're golden.

    Of course, in a more frigid environment, the layers insulate the body from the cold rather than insulating the cold in. So, the robes work for most climates.

    Next, I have to disagree that the robes are meant to be a device meant to blend in. The robes are meant to set them apart. In an extraordinarily modern society like on Coruscant where everyone is dressed in futuristic clothing, people will notice something so monastic as Jedi robes. The Jedi in the Old Republic were revered. They were the peace keepers. If someone wanted to do something illegal or morally questionable but saw someone walking around in the crowd dressed in the iconic robes, they would be deterred from doing so, at least for the moment. In the NJO books, I can't recall a lot of mention of robes when the Jedi were out and about. I suspect this was probably because of the Yuuzhan Vong reaction to the Jedi. Not that I think that the Jedi were scared to stand out and be found, but it certainly would not ingratiate themselves to the people they were protecting to be loudly proclaiming "Hey, I'm a Jedi, come get me" when being caught with a Jedi by the Yuuzhan Vong or Peace Brigade members would mean death even more assuredly than if not. The Jedi of the NJO didn't wear their robes because they wanted to actually blend in. We also see Jedi in the Fate books lose their robes when they abandon the order or go "barvy" to avoid detection either from the public or the "impostors." Just like if a Jedi were to go undercover, they would wear something to match whatever the people they were trying to blend in with were wearing.

    Finally, Master Cazz's discussion of the hairstyles of the Order members (humans at least) reminded me of medieval facial hair styles. In medieval epics/narratives/romances, great warriors, knights, kings, etc are described as having "flowing" beards a lot. Like a lot. It's probably the most used physical description across the board for the heroes of the stories to have. This is because if a warrior was able to grow his beard long, that meant an enemy had never been able to rip a chuck out of it or shave it off completely during a capture. Now, most likely warriors actually kept their beards well trimmed a la Alexander the Great to avoid giving enemies the opportunity to rip out their beards, but it's an important symbol none the less. The Jedi beards that we often see in Knights and Masters (humans of course) could be a way to say, "hey, check me out, I'm really good in battle" or "hey, check me out, I'm a representative and don't have to worry about fighting and its effects on my awesome beard action."

    Anyway, those are my thoughts on the subject.
    Cheers,
    DLPP
  17. Jedi_Master_Cazz Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2005
    star 4
    Lady Purple, I liked what you said about the beards, makes perfect sense. I always wondered why Jedi on the front lines were able to keep their beards though? Like Obi-wan, I assume it would be a bit of an occupational hazard, getting caught in all the shrapnel or your headset if you're in a crash, but then I suppose Jedi Mullets would do that too. I think the Jedi are somehow exempt from this, seeing as how the Clones are all clean shaven with crew cuts. Out-verse, probably because the Jedi look cooler on screen with their cool golden headsets and their robes, where as the Clones are all suited up ah-la ANH Red Squadron. In-verse, how come all the Jedi with their flowing hair and beards aren't sporting big chunks or singed hair, I doubt their talents in the force can allow them to walk free unscathed from a crash etc, etc.
  18. darkladypurplepencil Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 16, 2006
    star 2
    Well, traditionally speaking, clean shaven is a relatively new concept. In fact much of the clean faced, shaved heads we see in modern military is just as much for uniformity. I know from my brothers' love of facial hair that both the Army and Marine spec ops allow for beards. Also, I mentioned Alexander the Great; he developed a dress code among his men that allowed them to keep their beards, a sign of virility, as long as the enemy would not be able to grab a good fistful of it, so a well trimmed beard would be acceptable. We know George's many interviews that much of his original inspiration was from classical society and stories. Everything about the Jedi is from world traditions like the chivalric code, the samurai, and classical mythology and heroics. However, the Clones are modern; they are the new society of the "uncivilized age." I think the costuming differences, which includes hairstyles, is meant to reflect this.

    As for why in the movies, the Jedi have flowing hair and beards in the middle or aftermath of a battle... they probably borrow whatever special Elfish shampoo and conditioner Legolas was using in the Lord of the Rings movies to keep his blonde hair golden and flowing even in the worst of frays.

    Cheers,
    DLPP
  19. earlybird-obi-wan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 21, 2006
    star 6
    I have OC's with all kinds of hair styles and beards.

    One is inspired by a fire chief here in the Netherlands with his big moustache

    [image=http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk124/earlybird-obi-wan/forcenetart/aaquilin70.jpg]

    and another by a comment from AzureAngel2 that he was looking like Catweazle

    [image=http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk124/earlybird-obi-wan/forcenetart/aaquilin32.jpg]

    Obi-Wan is nice looking with a beard of course

    [image=http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk124/earlybird-obi-wan/forcenetart/faltears7.jpg]


  20. Yodasbadgirl1 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2009
    star 5
    I agree, they look like big P.J's. If anybody gave me permission to wear my night cloth's all the time, I would.:)
  21. ardavenport Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2004
    star 4
    In TPM Qui-Gon's robe had straighter sides and came down to just below his ankles. Obi-Wan's was fuller and would drag on the ground if he bent his knees at all. This would tend to make Qui-Gon look taller and Obi-Wan shorter, and younger. I think they did that to just emphasize who the master and who the padawan was.

    The don't think the robes were meant to make Jedi stand out. Otherwise Obi-Wan would have been crazy to wear his on Tatooine after ROTS with him being wanted and the whole galaxy out to kill Jedi. A plain brown robe is probably worn by all kinds of species in a galaxy that big.

    I don't have any problem with flowing hair or beards since Jedi wear those flowing robes and tunics. Have you ever tried to reach for something across a table wearing one of those sleeves? The Force would be very handy to have to float things to you instead of dragging your sleeve through the potato salad.

    And I've made multiple Jedi robes. You can hide all kinds of pockets and things in that fabric. But those hoods were designed to look good in movies, not to be worn. The slightest little breeze will push it right off your head. In some scenes, Qui-Gon is holding the edges of his robe, a very stern and dignified posture, but what he's really doing is keeping that robe from flying back.

    I think that masters and padawans wear the same things. And it is quite possible that Jedi don't have any type of formal robes. Noone was wearing anything different for Qui-Gon's funeral and there was clearly plenty of time to get dressed up.

    I imagine that Jedi 'dress codes' are very general. Do the obi and tabbards signify anything? They don't have any obvious practical purpose. Those parts of Jedi clothing might be meant to make Jedi stand out. And all Jedi wore clothes made from coarse, simple cloth types. Nothing fancy, except for things that looked like they might have cultural/species significance, like Shaak'ti's apron.

    I assume that Torguda(sp?), at least young ones, do better with minimal clothing. Otherwise I can't explain why Ahsoka is wearing that outfit. Or perhaps it's traditional. Shaak'ti is completely covered, so I don't think they need to have bare skin all the time.

    I'm sure the braids, colored bands and the locks of hair on back mean something. I just don't know what. It is possible that it is a specific tradition, passed on, master to padawan, and who knows where it started. It has to be species specific since lots of Jedi don't even have body hair.


  22. Jedi_Master_Cazz Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2005
    star 4
    What I mean is, what if what they wore throughout the TPM are formal robes? Qui-gon and Obi-wan are being assigned as representatives of the Jedi order after all. For all intents and purposes, they're being assigned to a tricky political environment that just so happened to get ugly. Of course the robes would have to be function-able if any Jedi were caught in a situation where they'd have to go to town.
  23. Valairy Scot Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Finally SOMEONE came up with an in-universe reason for Ahsoka to be so teeny-bopper dressed.

    There are a few of us who argue that the in-universe explanation (honoring of cultural traditions) is a way to try to explain in-universe female skimpy clothing that is there for out-of-universe reasons.

    I still argue for an in-universe cultural reason to see Obi-Wan in a loin cloth to make things even. [face_talk_hand]
  24. The_Face Ex-Manager

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 2003
    star 5
    because the Council keeps vetoing the open-Hawaiian-shirt/jean-shorts proposal
  25. Jedi_Master_Cazz Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2005
    star 4
    How about some sort of ritualistic, primitive hand-to-hand duel on some unknown world, Dathomir style? Then you could get in some serious dominance games too!:p

    Heck, the EU had Ahsoka wearing a Fifth Element costume when she was impersonating some Princess-turned-slave.:rolleyes:

    [image=http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081213002838/starwars/images/5/52/AhsokaSlave.jpg]

    ^ Totally do not approve.
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