Characters The Jedi Way - Jedi Discussion Thread - Jedi and the Force in The Clone Wars

Wow! Those quotes are great. I haven't read them all yet, but so far, this one is my favorite: ?Even in the middle of a mission, don?t neglect to taste the pastries.? [Qui-Gon Jinn] ? page 92


Thanks for the work you put into compiling those quotes.

 

Thanks for that great work, sifting through all those books that are among my favorite reads

 

I know this isn't on topic, but I have to throw this out there to get your opinion:

Are the Jedi younglings and initiates sheltered? What I mean is, how much interaction do they have with the greater galaxy before being taken as a padawan. How would a new padawan react to mission in Coruscant's lower levels?

Is the insular nature of the Temple responsible for the perceived or not so perceived arrogance of the Jedi?

This came to mind when a plot bunny jumped about a young padawan witnessing a rather heinous murder. How would this affect him?

I'd appreciate any thoughts.

 

Let's see here...

I think that for the most part, Jedi before the whole Ruusan Reformation had some interaction with the rest of the galaxy, depending on the time period.

Reading further, it says that The Post-Ruusan Jedi as younglings/Initiates were kept in the temple until they were chosen to be a Padawan, if they were chosen that is. I think that it helped in the Jedi being cold and distant, as in they completely shut off contact with the outside world, and not interacting with citizens enough.

 

Thanks, Bane. But what about Culture shock. I guess that's what I'm getting at. It may help, in their purpose as diplomats, that they are unbiased observers, but what how is a young padawan to cope with the bbig bad world once they are thrown into it?

 

I don't know. I guess that they where taught with what was in the archives.

 

It's probably worth pointing out that after being chosen as padawans, Jedi children in their early teens (or developmental equivalent) are taken into situations that alarm or appall a lot of readers/viewers -- not that these situations don't already have kids in them, necessarily, but that is somewhat different from choosing to take in a child you're responsible for.

As there's probably a lot of variation based on cultural/situational views of what constitutes a normal level of danger and responsibility at different ages, I would imagine there are probably people in the GFFA who would accuse the Jedi of being irresponsible about child endangerment instead of accusing them of keeping kids too sheltered or isolated.

I can see arguing that the transition may be too abrupt. I would hope, actually, that there's at least something of a "breaking-in" period with introductory missions intended to be less hazardous, and I would assume there's a fair amount addressed in education regarding why Jedi keep going out and getting in trouble. I think some culture shock is probably inevitable, and would be even if they were roaming Coruscant.

There's some indication (Legacy of the Jedi at least) that older initiates are at times allowed to wander around limited parts of Coruscant without immediate supervision, although considering what goes on in that story it may not be a great idea, as IIRC they end up causing a considerable mess and some property damage for no really good reason. I'm not sure if Watson was actively trying to cause or indicate a public relations problem, and I don't have the book at hand to check whether such consequences are mentioned (or, alternatively, if I retained the wrong impression). I tend to be hesitant to blame the Jedi Order too heavily, in my stories, for things that I suspect were the result of carelessness with plot devices rather than deliberate explorations of problems. (It's an option, sure, take the consequences of people's plot devices and extrapolate into new and interesting dysfunctions; it's not my thing.)

 

No problem. I've been accumulating the quotes for awhile and posting them on a different website, but since it looks like the latest Jude Watson series is concluding and there likely won't be another (unless they do Clone Wars) then I could post all of them here.

For background for my fics, I assume that the day-to-day like of initiates is sheltered, but that they can go out of the Temple more as they get older. Very young children would be taken out on only a few supervised field trips, like to the Senate, museums and other Republic institutions.

As they get older they're taught about the neighborhood around the Temple and learn how to use the public trains. I imagine that GFFA younglings are taught how to drive a vehicle at around age 10, depending on the individual and species. They would also find out about popular culture. Their day-to-day lives would still be sheltered and their exposure to life outside the Temple would be blended in with their regular education.

The older initiates would have to have some type of survival and even combat training to prepare them for missions. I've never really decided on how severe that would be, but I would expect the Jedi Masters to be very aware of how far they may or may not push the kids; they do have the Force after all. And the kids have the Force as well, so they would experience hardship and learn to use the Force to deal with it.

I think that Coruscant is so large and populous that it could be a perfect training ground for teaching initiates all the highs and lows that they might encounter in the Republic. The populace of the city-planet would be used to Jedi popping up here and there. I suppose that the Jedi might think that this is interacting with the populace, but it would likely just make the Jedi look for isolated and aloof to the public.

So, I don't really think that the older initiates would suffer much from culture shock, since they would have been introduced to what Coruscant had to offer by their elders. The younger ones would be sheltered, but would they be any more or less sheltered than a rich kid on the planet? I doubt it.

And the Initiates would be taught that Jedi lead simple lives of service with no attachments and no possessions. The younglings would be well cared for, but they would not have any frills or privileges. No cable, only educational games and toys, only physical activities that fit in with their training, no fashion clothes and only controlled exposure to popular culture, if any.

I assume that the whole system works well for most people and they work things out for the few who have problems. When Palpatine came along the Jedi thought everything was working just great, which it probably was, for the Jedi; the Republic was beginning to fall apart.

 

Do Jedi ever take the equivalent of Driver's Ed in Speeders or Starfighters/ Do they have to have a license to do so/

 

I have two opinions on that, but am not decided on which is more plausible.

(1) - Coruscant is by necessity a very regulated environment. So, the Jedi, wanting to be humble and unobtrusive, regularly take packs of younglings to the Coruscant DMV to be tested and get their licenses (if they have 14 year-old queens, they can have 12 year-old drivers).

Once they qualify to local air space driving, the younglings can train for other types of transports and then ships and space transports. This would be more specialized training and the Temple probably has it's own licensed program for that. So, that training would be 'in house'.

(2) - The Jedi have been there long before Coruscant City and the Republic, so they get grandfathered into everything. The Initiates and Padawans get tested and approved only through the Masters in the Temple and if they get stopped, their Jedi ID gives them a pass for anything. (Recall Anakin shooing everyone away from the action in the sports bar by just saying 'Jedi business' in AOTC.)

So, if the younglings run amok in the traffic lanes the only thing the local authorities can do is complain to the Temple who will presumably stop it.

 

That would make sense though. They probably do have a structured DMV program like ours, where they would have to take classes, then they fly in a liccensed speeder to manuever through traffic.

Now, I've been noticing this lately, but I don't know if you woill agree with me. Do you feel that we don't know many of the Jedi personally? Like, what is Obi-Wan's favorite food, or How Shaak Ti's room looked, or if Mace Windu had male pattern baldness. We all know of their exploits during times of peril and warfare, but how were they personally? Were they Shy and Quiet? Loud and Outgoing?

 

The Jedi are presented as icons, ideal members of the Order, so there are not too many personal details, but some of them do creep in just from the movies (more show up in the EU books):

- Qui-Gon could be on the Jedi Council if he weren't always opposing them on things - he's not a conformist.
- Obi-Wan's mullet in AOTC probably means something, but I'm not sure what.
- Anakin was a rebellious teenager.
- Obi-Wan was a dutiful padawan.
- Neither Mace nor Ki-Adi Mundi would believe that Dooku could kill anyone until he started a war.
- Yoda giggles.
- Plo Koon is very conscientious of the Clones under his command (Clone Wars cartoons)

That's really pretty slim on detail. We really don't know about day-to-day likes and dislikes and we can only extrapolate on how they act on the screen (and books if we like).

And actually, I think that Mace Windu shaves his head, and doesn't have any male-pattern baldness at all. But that's just my opinion of the character.

 

So they're essentially robots with no personality?

 

Um, how did you get that from what she said? I never heard of robots giggling like Yoda. And Qui-gon's non-comformity is certainly not robotic.

Here are a few other traits I've noticed in the various Jedi characters:

Yoda is a prankster and uses a humorous approach to teaching... except for when seriousness is needed of course. He also has a fondness for younglings (perhaps because they're the only beings that don't tower over him seriously though I think it's because of the openness and flexibility of the young mind to accept new ideas).

Mace has a dark streak within him and he uses it in his fighting without letting the darkness consume his path.

Plo Koon exemplifies compassion in his dealings with the Clones.

Qui-gon would have many pets in the Temple if he were allowed and had the time to take care of them (missions and all would make it unfair to the animal to even have one pet).

In AoTC Obi-wan seems to be overwelmed sometimes with the big brother/father/master role he has with Anakin.

There is so much more to all of their personalities, but that's just a sampling.

 

That does get me thinking.....

How do people picture Jedi life? The variations I remember seeing are:

1. It's a job: Jedi live normally in and out of the Temple, probably similarly to how other people in the GFFA, except that their job has good fringe benefits, place to live, vacations, apartments with kitchens and furniture and stuff. The pay probably isn't too great, but they're Jedi 'cause they love it.

2. It's an adventure: All the things in (1.) apply, but being a Jedi is more like being in the military, or Starfleet, which is a very familiar fan reference.

3. It's a lifestyle: Similar to (2.) but being a Jedi is more intense, more like a calling.

4. It's a life: Jedi live very monastically, no possession, no lives other than being Jedi.


Any opinions? I lean more toward (4.) in my fics. I pretty much take Anakin's statement in AOTC that possessions and attachments are forbidden to Jedi.

 

I'd say all four.

 

I'd say 4 for the Old Republic, and 3 & 4 (depending on the person) for Luke's generation.

 

Thanks for compiling all of my favorite quotes! I've been trying to gather them myself, but haven't gotten very far.

I think that 2 applies mainly to Padawans and the outside population. They all crave the adventure that comes with the job, but as they go on more missions, reality hits, much like in the military I suppose. I remember a passage in JQ 10: The Final Showdown, where Obi-Wan stopped and reflected on how much the times had changed them since the four teams first mission together in The Way of the Apprentice. I think it even mentioned something about how the adventure had somewhat left or something that can be translated along those lines.

I think number 1 is to some extent, but since they've grown up with it and it's all they really know, they lean more towards 3 and 4.

 

Your welcome on the JA quotes. They were fun to collect. One of my favorite parts is those little bits of Jedi sayings.

I hadn't really thought about there being differences between age groups for the different choices for Jedi lifestyle, but they would be different. Younger children would have more toys and games and activities that would not be obviously directed toward Jedi training (though were likely subtly educational in that way).

And yes, however the Jedi lived during the Old Republic, the lifestyle would have been looser in the New Republic. For starters, most of the Jedi being trained would be adults, or maybe older children. They would all come in with their own lifestyles and the Jedi would have to adjust to that.

 

This is something I've pondered for fics....

Is the Force better than sex?

I assume that it is. And while it's generally not the topic of my stories, I keep it in mind as back story. It is the only way I can see why the Jedi Order can have such a low attrition rate (20 'lost' Jedi in 25,000 years). The Force is just more spiritually, mentally and even physically fulfilling.

Any opinions?

BTW, I do assume that Anakin's big attraction to Padme was emotional attachment, coupled with Anakin's assumption that he could have Padme and the Force. The sex, and resulting children, were a bonus. But in the end, Anakin did choose the Force over Padme, too.

 

For most Jedi the Force is better but there are Jedi - the Corellian Jedi most notably - who value both. For instance Nejaa, his son Valin and Valin's son Corran Horn.
And we see Obi-Wan and Siri attracted to each other but that's the Jedi way of selfless love.

 

Shmi Skywalker certainly seemed to think so.

 

For species propagation, sex is better. Not to mention, more fun if with the right partner.

 

I hope not. That wouldn't really be FAIR now would it?

 

Now there's a topic to get people's attention .

I think that to say that the Force is more fulfilling than sexual intimacy suggests that the Jedi make the choice by personal preference, and I don't think they are. Rather, I think they their lifestyle as a necessity. Desire is a form of attachment, and attachment leads to suffering and poor judgement. Their profession gives them too much responsibility for them to afford clouded judgement.

So I don't think the Force is better than sex, but that sex is one of the many things Jedi have to sacrifice.