Fanclub *The Knights of Darkness* The Official Sith, Dark Side & Knights of Ren Fan Club Version 3.0

This thread needs bumped up big time, so I will make a contribution to your wonderful topic, DarthIshyZ It isn't much, but here we go...

So, what you say is the Sith can not be humble. I agree with you here. The Sith historically are always reaching for more and are never satisfied, but they shouldn't be. A humble Sith would be weak and therefore not worthy to hold the mantle.

 

Humility is a jedi trait. 'Humble Sith' is a contradiction in terms and such a being would not last very long in sith society.

 

I agree. The point of the quote is that the act of being angry at people every day weakens us. By that logic, being Sith, and therefore not humble, weakens us from the very start.

 

I see that as what drives us. Anger is a passionate emotion and passion is a very integral part of the Sith and the very Code they live by.

 

It was that high level of 'passion' that kept Darth Maul alive even after his critical defeat in Naboo, at the hands of Kenobi. Passion, transformed Anakin Skywalker into Darth Vader. Even Mace Windu recognized its merits.

 

But can a Sith exist without anger? Can other "passions" supplant anger and a Sith be just as powerful?

 

You take a disappointingly narrow view, High Lord.

For my part, I view humility not as contentment with one's place, but instead as understanding of one's limitations. Palpatine lacked the small amount of humility it would have taken to understand that his hold on Darth Vader was not such that he could openly attempt to replace him, and then torture his son to death in front of his face without reasonably expecting interference.

Lack of the right kind of humility, something resembling cautiousness, is what has condemned generation after generation of Sith to failure. The assertion that an individual with humility would not last long in Sith society is a moot point - *Sith society* doesn't last very long in Sith society because it's inherently chaotic and destructive - and perhaps even because awareness of one's limitations; humility, is a rare trait.

To be Sith, in truth, is not to adhere to a cookie-cutter personality type. It does not require arrogance, and it does not even require anger as a constant. It requires self-determination and a willingness to embrace one's inner darkness. Anything beyond this is incidental.

Individuality is the very *essence* of Sithdom, High Lord Manticore. One may be humble or arrogant, benevolent or pernicious, but as long as one seeks ultimate rulership over oneself, one is Sith.

 

Hatred actually works better in the long run. Anger have an tendency to disappear after you have realised it; hatred, properly nurtured, can go on forever.

 

EDIT: Nothing to see here. Move along, move along.

 

Well presented Lord Wanderguard, I could not have said it better myself. I'm glad my efforts to promote discussion was successful.

 

Greetings all! This thread has been quiet, not silent, for too long. I'm going to be organizing more regular weekly discussions.
The next discussion will start today and will be presented by Anedon. If you are interested in leading a discussion, please PM with your topic and I
will let you know when your turn is.

 

Hey guys
I though we should discuss the most well known Sith of all time today:
Darth Vader who we might see on the big Screen again in a few months if the new Rouge One Trailer is correct with that.
I want to discuss Vader´s journey with you. From Anakin Skywalker to Vader, from Jedi to Sith. What do you think of it? Do you Thing his motives to become a Sith where understandable?
Or do you think he acted purely out of selfish desires and didn´t deserved the redemption he got at the end?

 

It was absolutely selfish. All of his motives to join the Sith were choices made out of self-centered desire. He was passionate, and passion is selfish by necessity. Desire is selfish by necessity. This would be why Yoda advised him to let go of his attachments, not to want, not to yearn. It is impossible to act on one's desires and not act in selfishness.

Even his choice to kill the Emperor and to "redeem" himself was profoundly selfish and not altogether very redemptive. He saved Luke, sure, but what did he do for the galaxy he helped to plunge into darkness (if you buy that anti-imperial narrative - I'm not sure I do)? His actions had little bearing on the outcome of the battle. He ensured the continuation of the Jedi by saving Luke, but that's arguably not even a good thing for the galaxy anyway.

 

The Sith seem to be served by a "Dark Church of The Force." Members include Yupe Tashu, Mas Amedda, and perhaps much of Sheev's family.

 

His motives for turning to the Dark Side were selfish but then again, us Sith are selfish. I'm looking at you Darth_wanderguard.
Anyway, he obviously thought he was doing the right thing because he would be able to save his wife. He was so blinded by hatred for the Tuskens for killing his mother and for the Jedi "holding" him back. There was so much building up inside that he broke. When he turned, I sometimes wonder if he even loved Padme anymore. He was obviously so absorbed in his hatred that he didn't want to listen to her pleas. I think he is a good villain though. I don't think his redemption was selfish. I truly believe he was doing it for Luke. He saw himself in Luke and realized it wasn't good. He knew he was dying and wanted to die good. I guess. I wouldn't say he didn't deserve the redemption though. Anakin was a kind person. He loved his family until Sidious came along and shoved his nose into people's business. Anakin was a great kid and he was a pretty good teen and adult so I think he did deserve to be brought back. He realized he was wrong. He wanted to turn back to the light.
Althogether, he was selfish but at the end, he did get redeemed and I think it was worth it.

I am excited to see what they are going to do with him in RO.

 

Well as a person who always enjoys story of heroes turning into villans I would say that Vader was pretty selfish and I've seen far more sympathetic person getting denyed the redemption Vader got.In the fanfic I'm writing Jacen Solo wonders at one point if the Jedi have spared him because of the one good action he committed shortly before his death (saving Allana by warning her) and comes to the conclusion that one noble deed can't make up for several evil ones and he might never earn true redemption. While Vader basically got it and judging the smile on his face shortly as a ghost he seems quiet pleased with himself. So has Vader eraned his redemption? Probably not, but on the other hand he has at least tried to. For a christian is basically enough, true remorse and the will to make up for ones mistakes.

But returing to SW I would have liked the idea that Vader didn't went to hell but also didn't become one with the force. Instead he is basically sent into a purgatory where he is punished for his crimes before finally becoming one with the force. (That's btw the fate I think happened to Jacen after what I read about his appereances in FoJ.)

 

I definitely think this is the case. He never displays any anxiety around loosing his mother before he leaves Tatooine. He may have even saw the mother figure he never had in Padme. I suspect that this is why they waited until Luke was an adult to train him. Anakin wasn't too old, but rather was too young. There's a reason 9-year-olds don't join the military.

 

Hey guys,
I'd like to sign up for this thread please

 

I have no doubt the sith archivist shall add your name to the roster. Do take a look at the opening page for details. Welcome, Darth Rozic.

 

Vader was... troubled. Certainly. I don't think he knew just how troubled he was until he'd already pledged himself to Darth Sidious. He made a bad decision and felt he couldn't come back from that. He turned to the dark side in an effort to do good (for Padme). Even when he didn't have that reason to keep this up, he didn't shirk the responsibility he'd taken on. He did as his master said... fear based response? Anyway, he kept this up until he had reason to believe it was possible to do otherwise.

One of my favorites of the comics was a battle staged by Sidious and the acolytes of the Dark Side. Maul was reincarnated and pitted against Vader. Vader eventually defeated Maul. Maul was incredulous and said "what could you hate so much that you could defeat me?" Vader simply responded, "Myself."

He was ashamed of his actions. He was bound to his master, though.

 

DarthIshyZ

I believe I have that comic somewhere in my extensive archives. That was a great day for all Vader & Maul fans. ( like myself )