Amph The Land of Middle Earth: Lord of the Rings & The Hobbit.

Discussion in 'Community' started by JediTrilobite, Jan 3, 2006.

  1. Jeremyguy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 11, 1998
    star 4
    I was going to comment only on the books but, after seeing some of the comment about the movie version of TTT, I have to agree that, of all the changes, the absolute worst was screwing up Faramir's character. Horrible, horrible, horrible! He's one of my favorites in the books, and all fouled up in the movies. AAAGGHAHAGHAAHHHGGGGH!

    Okay, out of my system.

    I have read The Hobbit and LotR countless times since I was in 6th grade or so, and The Silmarillion a number of times as well. This winter, I started teaching 7th grade English and I decided to read the books again. I have found a whole new level of appreciation, as I have been teaching a lot about sentence structure, themes, author's purpose, and reading strategies. Reading the Lay of Earendil in FotR, for example - it was as though I had never read it before, like discovering an entirely new work of poetry. I was fascinated at JRRT's intentional use of language to create setting and mood, and I have marveled at the language throughout all the books.

    The Children of Hurin was great, too, but as it's an expansion of a part of The Silmarillion, I opted not to re-read it at this time. I'll get through a few other books and then revisit Middle-Earth over the summer - I've never read the History of Middle-Earth books before.
  2. Count_Doodie Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2006
    star 2
    i just finished children of hurin. loved it. bit confused by the end tho. can someone help me out?

    does this mean that Turin did not see her the way everyone else saw her? she appeared to him in the image of another woman? was that Morgoth's doing or Glaurung's? or have i missed the plot completely?

    -doodie
  3. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    Turin simply never recognized that she was his sister. I suppose he felt a kinship with her, soul mates if you will, that initially attracted him to her.
  4. Count_Doodie Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2006
    star 2
    i'm not sure that's the case. if you compare the two descriptions they are clearly talking about differant looking people.

    that's what's confusing me.
    -doodie
  5. Amon_Amarth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2005
    star 6

    You would probably love Lays of Beleriand then. The 3rd of the HIstory of Middle-Earth books, it sums up two epics Tolkien wrote but never fully published whilst alive - Children of Hurin and Lay of Leithan (Beren and Luthien). They are simply a beautiful piece of art, especially the second one.

    [face_thinking]
    That is quite strange. I'll re-read it again, or even better, try to find her description in the original Lay.
  6. Jeremyguy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 11, 1998
    star 4
    Amon_Amarth - I'm looking forward to it! Thanks for the recommendation.

    (I'm also hoping to get to JRRT's translation of "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight.")
  7. Independence1776 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2006
    star 3
    Wow... hard to believe I just now found this thread. I read the books before the movies came out, though it took me a while to read RotK because I had convinced myself that Frodo was going to die. I've read them countless times (literally) since.

    My favorite book is The Silmarillion. I love the language, including in the first two chapters. My suggestion: try reading parts of it aloud. You truly get the beauty of Tolkien's writing then. It's prose poetry.

    My favorite chapter in LotR is The Council of Elrond. Of course, Elrond's my favorite character, so...

    As for the movies, I have a love/hate relationship. I love the visuals- New Zealand was the perfect choice. Many of the changes I don't like, but there are a few I do. But Peter Jackson will never be forgiven for massacring Elrond's character. The changes made to Faramir run a close second.

    I'd love to read HoME, but I don't have all of them and the ones I do are packed in a box in another state. It's really aggravating because I need Morgoth's Ring for a fanfic.

    Of course, I'm such an LotR geek that I'm trying to learn Sindarin. :rolleyes:
  8. Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2000
    star 7
    Of course, I'm such an LotR geek that I'm trying to learn Sindarin.

    I used to know a bit, but I've forgotten most of it.
  9. GreenLantern_Jedi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2007
    star 1
    I'm just about finished Vol. II of 'The History of the Hobbit'.

    I'm going to post a detailed review over at theonering.net - but if you guys want, I'll post it here too.

    It's a great study of the Hobbit, made up almost entirely of previously unpublished texts. It sometimes veers too much into the realm of a reference book solely for Tolkien scholars, but casual Tolkien enthusiasts will enjoy it as well. But I'll save the details for my review.

    Apart from Tolkien's 'Beowulf' translation, 'King of the Green Dozen', and maybe the unpublished letters, I can't imagine that there's much left in the Tolkien 'attic' to exploit. Maybe facsimiles of the original handwritten pages will begin to be published, who knows? This is all getting so anal that a scholar is working on a book about how Christopher Tolkien assembled 'The Silmarillion' - hmmm, didn't CT already publish 12 volumes of 'The History of Middle Earth' and 'Unfinished Tales' to cover that ground...? Oh well, it's all cake for us Tolkien fans.
  10. Amon_Amarth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2005
    star 6
    Jeremyguy, Count_Doodie - Luthien's description in the Lay of Leithian:

    "Her robe was blue as summer skies,
    but grey as evening were her eyes;
    'twas sewn with golden lilies fair,
    but dark as shadow was her hair.
    "
    26-30

    However, Christopher Tolkien put a draft for Leithan in the book as well. He describes it as an early sketch which Tolkien then partially rewrote after he gave it to C.S.Lewis for reading. Anyway, the earliest version is:

    "Her robe was blue as summer skies,
    but not so blue as were her eyes;
    'twas swen with golden lillies fair,
    but none so golden as her hair."
    12-15

    But in his comment on Canto I CT says that in the Tale of Tinuviel, her hair was "dark" and the initial description doesn't match with Luthien making a robe of darkness from her own hair.

    Sorry it took me this long to post it, but I couldn't find my book sooner.

    There used to be a special thread here for the Silmarillion and other Tolkien's work. http://boards.theforce.net/science_fiction_and_fantasy_books_and_comics/b10749/22779015/p1/?165
    Locked, unfortunately.

    QFT!
  11. NYCitygurl NSWFF Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2002
    star 9
    Desire and ye shall receive ;) Seriously, any time you want anold thread unlocked, just let Raven or I know :)
  12. Jedi_Drizzt Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2006
    star 1
    I agree. There's olny one thing to say: Elves in Helm's Deep! :rolleyes:

    That stuff from "Lay of Leithan" is great. Thank you for quotes, Amon_Amarth. :)
    I was about to mention Robe of Darkness when I started reading thi page, but yeah, you beat me to it.


    O, please do. I think I have a topic for that place, but last time I check it it was old.

    Edit: ^^ please ignore that. I just now saw that you did unlock it.
  13. Amon_Amarth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2005
    star 6

    Yeah. It looked good in the movie, and it's always amazing seeing Elves fight, but it was just wrong, an unnecessary change of the book.
  14. Count_Doodie Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2006
    star 2
    cheers for the response. i'm glad i sporadically check this thread.
    so she had blue eyes and gold hair just like Mablung says. which brings me back to my original question, why dos Turin see her as with dark eyes and dark hair?
    -doodie
  15. yankee8255 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2005
    star 6
    I really don't have that big of a problem with elves at Helm's Deep per se. My problem, is why would they fight at Helm's Deep but not Minas Tirith. And why did they all basically vanish after Helm's Deep. Were they all killed?
  16. Raja_Io Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2005
    star 4
    You've got me confused here. Wasn't the initial discussion about Nienor's looks and how Turin may have seen her differently than other people? And Amon's quotes from the Lay of Leithian describe Luthien, not Nienor.

    Somebody please explain.
  17. Count_Doodie Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2006
    star 2

    oh yeah! in my hast i seemed to have got luthien and nienor mixed up. back to square one?
    -doodie
  18. Tooqui_The_Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2003
    star 3
    Has anyone but me read the Simarillion?

    It was a hard one to stick with, but its got the history of Man, Elves, and Dwarves encased within
  19. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    I think the Elves were supposed to be a replacement for Halbarad and his company. They arrived too late to help at Helm's Deep, but they did help Aragorn steal the corsair ships. Halbarad died in the fighting at Minas Tirith in the book. I would guess that in the movie version, all the Elves died at Helm's Deep.
  20. NYCitygurl NSWFF Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2002
    star 9
    Not all the elves, but the leader did, in a very sad moment :( Can't remember his name right now.
  21. yankee8255 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2005
    star 6
    It's the elf they first meet in Lothlorien, who has some tense words with Gimli. I forget his name too.
  22. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
  23. NYCitygurl NSWFF Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2002
    star 9
  24. SoA Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2008
    star 3
    I usually don't like it when movies go and add things that weren't in the book I loved, but the elves at Helm's Deep were an awesome addition. It wasn't a huge plot point, but it really added to the aesthetic and intensity of the battle.
  25. AquaRose Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 6, 2001
    star 4
    Can I clarify?

    Luthien has raven black hair, like the night sky and eyes that are blue like a deep pool of water.

    Luthien + blonde hair=frightening glitch somewhere.