CT The Lapti Nek Controversey

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by SlashMan, Jun 11, 2013.

  1. KilroyMcFadden Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 3
    Original Yuzzum:
    [IMG]
    Last edited by KilroyMcFadden, Jun 13, 2013
  2. Jarren_Lee-Saber Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2008
    star 4
    This is the one place where I say the original is better than the SE, but only barely. Both songs are absolutely horrible, and I would have them cut from the film if it wasn't for the importance of the Oola part.

    Song: Lapti Nek > Jedi Rocks
    Video: Jedi Rocks >>> Lapti Nek
  3. EvilQ Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 8, 2013
    star 1
    I like the Ewok song because it reminds me of a little ditty we sang in school to the same tune:

    Muammar, you've gone too far;
    Planes have been sent to drop bombs on your tent!


    That's about the only reason I like it, though.
  4. SlashMan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2012
    star 3
    I actually only realized that after watching the documentaries (as he's barely visible in the original movie). Though it's at least nice that they decided to give life to an undeveloped creature, as opposed to throwing in one that doesn't belong.

    Interestingly enough, his species was supposed to make a noticeable appearance on Endor. Except only one model was made, and they could not articulate him (budget issues). Curious how they restored him in Jabba's Palace, but not on Endor.

    Also, someone's made an interesting edit to the scene on YouTube:

    Obviously the cuts are pretty rough, but it's nice to see a route they could have taken with the Special Edition. If they had to edit the original scene, I'd prefer it be a little more subtle like that.
  5. KilroyMcFadden Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 3
    That would have been great!
    EDIT: This IS great!
    Last edited by KilroyMcFadden, Jun 13, 2013
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  6. FRAGWAGON Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    Dammit Kilroy, I'm agreeing with you.
  7. Thoix Heoro Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 1
    They should re-edit the scene again to be shorter, keep most the SE visuals, add more of Oola dancing, andkeep Oola's new rancor pit scene entirely. You're abosutley right about the fact Oola's fate being important enough to keep the whole scene in.
    Jarren_Lee-Saber likes this.
  8. BigAl6ft6 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    I will say, the addition of Oola freaking out in the rancor pit is an awesome addition. Girl sells the scream too (or at least the start of it). You get more of a tease of the rancor than it was originally.
    Last edited by BigAl6ft6, Jun 14, 2013
  9. Blur Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 1999
    star 4
    Definitely - the added Oola scenes to the '97 ROTJ SE (using the same actress, who looks exactly the same as she did in the original film) are excellent & subtle additions to the film. They fit seamlessly into the original print of ROTJ - so seamlessly, in fact, that if you hadn't known about this change you would have thought it had been in the original ROTJ back in '83...
  10. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2009
    star 4
    It wasn't dated back in 1983, though, it was just bad, as it was attempting to be contemporary (as opposed to the cantina band playing 1940s Glen Miller-style stuff in SW/ANH).

    Jedi Rocks is a hundred times worse, being far more in your face. It's the "big musical number" GL wanted to do, rather than just incidental live music. No thanks, you had your fun at the start of Temple of Doom, let's just leave it there.

    (The eerie opera in ROTS as a backdrop to Palps' seduction of Anakin was great, though)
    Last edited by Darth_Nub, Jun 16, 2013
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  11. darth ladnar Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 20, 2013
    star 3
    I thought the original song was pretty terrible. It starts off okay but it just turns into noise by the end. What makes it fit a little better is it just seems like background music. I thought the puppetry of Sy Snootles was pretty bad too.

    "Jedi Rocks" is pretty awful too, though I do like the part the little brown guy sings. I think his name is Joh Wohzah. What's a little weird about "Jedi Rocks" is that it's this big number that just starts up out of nowhere. With the old song, it's just weird background music. Why all of sudden does this band just start to jam when the creatures are just hanging out? I think the CGI looks better than the original except when we see a close up of Sy Snootles' lips and down Joh Wohzah's throat. Those shots also seem out of place in Star Wars. One other thing I like about "Jedi Rocks" is how it ends with Sy Snootles noticing Oola falling down the rancor pit, and saying "oooh, uh-oh!'

    The added stuff with Oola also adds a little.
    Pensive Padme likes this.
  12. Pensivia Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2013
    star 4
    ditto...
  13. Vthuil Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2013
    star 4

    You know, that's a really good way of putting why "Lapti Nek" comes across as better than "Jedi Rocks" even though they're both pretty dated. "Jedi Rocks" is literally in your face, while "Lapti Nek" is just part of the background. After all, the important part of the scene is establishing the rancor's existence, not the musical number that happens to be playing.
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  14. Grand_Moff_Jawa Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2001
    star 5
    Jedi Rocks was one of many arbitrary changes made to the OT. And like most of those, it doesn't work.
  15. EHT New Films Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2007
    star 6
    Lapti Nek was a silly, cheesy song... and it fit the scene perfectly. Jedi Rocks is a horrible song that also happens to not fit the scene at all, and the added CGI images make it even worse.
  16. Hutch23 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2006
    star 1
    Lapti Nek sounded so much more "alien" to me than Jedi Rocks. The latter is much more like something out of a musical. I also don't find Jedi Rocks transitions well into Oola's struggle and ultimate fate.
  17. Mr. K Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    I remember being a little 5 year old in a dark theatre feeling the music of Lapti Nek rumbling under my seat and feeling like I was witness to a rauscous party in the depths of a gangster's Tatooine citadel. It was perfect.

    14 years later, I cringed as soon as that Yuzzum started in. No comparison.
  18. Mr. K Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    ...and Boba Fett never looked cooler!
  19. Darth Fuji Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2013

    I think the real reason is because Lucas was backed into a corner to change something, anything, in ROTJ to complete the Special Editions, and there wasn't too much to change with Jedi. So we got musical numbers and smooth jazz end celebrations.
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  20. Blur Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 1999
    star 4
    This is possible, but I would think the ROTJ: SE end scene celebrations & the other subtle additions/changes (herd of Banthas, additional Oola sequence, the smoother movements of those walking on top of the Sail Barge, and the Sarlaac beak) would be enough changes to the film.

    And, remember, ESB had even less instrusive changes than ROTJ did, even if they had kept the Lapti Nek sequence & just made the other ROTJ: SE changes.

    So, it seems to me that for some reason, Lflm. decided that the Lapti Nek sequence didn't "work" for some reason, and decided to change the whole scene - despite the fact that the new scene is awful.

    At some point in the not-too-distant future, what I envision is something like a "Purple-Ray" DVD that will enable the viewer to pick & choose amongst what changes they want to keep & discard in the films. Re: ROTJ, I would keep Lapti Nek & The Sebastian Shaw ghost from the original '83 version, and keep the other Tattoine changes, as well as the ending celebration music - I actually felt the SE ending music & scenes were more epic.
    Last edited by Blur, Jul 1, 2013
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  21. Beru'sBlueMilk Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2013
    I always loved the ''Lapti Nek'' sequence from the original Jedi, it had a rawness about it that fitted the rough and ready atmosphere of Jabba's chambers. ''Jedi Rocks'' on the other hand just kills the film dead for me, it doesn't fit, it's too CGI shiny, it's too long (maybe not but it feels like it goes on for ages watching it) and it just feels like a toy commercial plonked straight into the narrative. I found on YouTube a few years back a guy who tried to combine the original ''Lapti Nek'' straight off the movie with the score soundtrack version and come out with a cracker of a version, I got a nefarious friend to download it for me and burn it and it's the closest I'll ever get to having the original (it's always annoyed me that a discofied orchestral version appeared on the soundtrack instead of the raspy, raw original)
  22. Sarge Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 1998
    star 4
    Remember all the controversy when someone was selling copies of Titanic with the sex scenes edited out? I expect if someone did a professional job of editing together a version of the OT that combined the best of SE and original versions, they'd sell by the ton. I'd buy one. I wonder how LFL and/or Disney would react. Sadly, probably something along the lines of, "Wipe them out. All of them." :(

    To get back on topic, I agree with all of you who say Jedi Rocks is too obtrusive and polished for the scene. Musically, I think I'd prefer to hear JR just to listen to; it's got a catchier tune to my ears. But Lapti Nek is a better background for the drama we should be focusing on in the throne room.
  23. Blur Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 1999
    star 4
    Yes - perfectly stated. The Lapti Nek song definitely adds an appropriately sultry/seedy vibe to the whole scene, and really fits in with Jabba's Palace. The song is perfect, and if you read the English lyrics, it adds another dimension to this. Sy Snootles is the SW equivalent of a blonde lounge singer performing @ midnight in a dark, smoke-filled club in the "bad" part of town, while assorted gangster-types half-listen to her, all the while plotting nefarious deeds ;)

    Conversely, "Jedi Rocks" is too clean, too polished, too crowded, and, IMHO, isn't even that great of a song. It's one long cartoon. In fact, IMHO replacing Lapti Nek w/Jedi Rocks is as bad as having Greedo s. first in the ANH: SE (and, in the 2011 Blu-ray, this Greedo sequence doesn't look as bad).
    Last edited by Blur, Jul 1, 2013
  24. SlashMan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2012
    star 3
    The shots of him watching from the shadows with other shady figures was perfect. Also, there was almost too much Fett when they went back with the SE (A New Hope would have been fine had Boba not turned and looked directly at the camera).
    You may want to check out Star Wars: Revisited. Regardless of if you agree with his changes or not, a lot of time and money goes into these edits, which are available at no cost. I was blown away by all the continuity errors he's fixed.
    Last edited by SlashMan, Jul 1, 2013
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  25. Vthuil Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2013
    star 4
    I've said it before and I'll say it again: Star Wars Revisited is not an appealing option for people who just wanted the O-OT restored, because the guy who made it just had to insert any number of other changes as well. Dumb as things like Jedi Rocks are, at least they're actually from the person who created Star Wars.
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