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TLJ The Last Jedi clarification thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Sequel Trilogy (Released Films)' started by Artoo-Dion , Jan 12, 2018.

  1. vypernight

    vypernight Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    1. During the first lesson, Luke notes that Rey felt the dark side and immediately went to it. How does he know this if he cut himself off from the Force? I know he sees the ground crack, but that's no indication that she moving in the direction of the DS?
    2. On Crait, right before landing, Rey and Chewie can be seen in the cockpit of the Falcon from the ship's right side. For every other scene, Chewie is in the pilot's seat. Why for this scene is he in the back seat and Rey is in the copilot's seat? The only explanation I can think of is so they both show up on screen.
     
  2. Ricardo Funes

    Ricardo Funes Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2015
    The ground crack, and the other dark side physical manifestations that we as audience also watched.

    Rey is always on the pilot's seat, and Chewie is always on the copilot's seat.

    http://caps.pictures/201/7-swlastjedi/full/starwars-lastjedi-movie-screencaps.com-15902.jpg
    http://caps.pictures/201/7-swlastjedi/full/starwars-lastjedi-movie-screencaps.com-15940.jpg
     
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  3. TCF-1138

    TCF-1138 Porg of New Films & Fan Films star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2002
    Ricardo Funes likes this.
  4. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Because the people making these movies are scientifically ignorant and have no idea how space works.
     
  5. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2014
    That's quite the leap.
     
  6. Starkiller17

    Starkiller17 Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Jul 6, 2010
    They call it the Battle of Crait because it takes place on Crait. That's got nothing to do with "scientific ignorance."
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
  7. LukeLives

    LukeLives Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Apr 14, 2018
    This may be an odd question......so when luke "supposedly"died, ...why did the force projected Gold Dice hang around until kylo picked it up? Wouldn't it have disappeared as soon and luke was gone and until able to force project it?....or am I totally missing something? (Which is highly possible lol!)
     
  8. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2014
    I was thinking about this - I think it's just that the edit works better that way - but if an explanation is needed, either the projection takes a little while to fade, regardless of when Luke dies, or, given that the force is a mystical energy field, and Luke becomes one with the force, maybe Luke dying doesn't impact his ability to keep the projection going a little longer. I think it's one of those slightly hand-wavy things to be honest.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018 at 8:27 AM
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  9. LukeLives

    LukeLives Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Apr 14, 2018
    I can dig it. TY!
     
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  10. MyMotherTalzin

    MyMotherTalzin Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Apr 9, 2018
    A question about Paige Tico and the scene in the bomber. She's lying on some sort a gangway at the bottom of the bomber and all the bombs cascade down past her. It seems to be open-aired, there's nothing between her and space. But there's no oxygen in space, so how is she breathing? It's not a sealed of section of the ship. And it does not in any way appear to have some sort of force shield. Thanks for any replies!
     
  11. MotivateR5D4

    MotivateR5D4 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 20, 2015
    Why doesn't Luke tell Rey the full story right off the bat about what happened when he went to face Kylo? Why does he initially make Rey believe that Kylo was the aggressor and the bad guy, and then only fill her in on the rest when she comes back to him after hearing Kylo's version of events?
     
  12. Ricardo Funes

    Ricardo Funes Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2015
    Luke is not proud of being tempted by the dark side. But he resisted as he always does, so why scaring her about that anyway?
     
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  13. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2014
    I think there is atmosphere and gravity within the ship (fill in whatever tech is necessary to make that happen).

    As for why Luke holds back the truth - he lies by omission because he's deeply ashamed of the truth.
     
  14. MotivateR5D4

    MotivateR5D4 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 20, 2015
    It just seemed a bit manipulative to make Ben out to be the bad guy when Luke was equally at fault for the misunderstanding. At the least it was very short sighted of Luke, since it was inevitable that Rey would eventually learn the whole story from Kylo.

    And I feel bad for Rey for having to go back and forth like that and not really knowing who to trust or who is telling the whole truth.
     
  15. MyMotherTalzin

    MyMotherTalzin Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Apr 9, 2018
    I thought it was very manipulative and deceptive of Luke too. And when he confronts Kylo, he doesn't even attempt to try and apologize or redeem himself (or Kylo). All of his actions that we see towards Kylo throughout the movie are wholly antagonistic.
     
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  16. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2014
    Well, Luke had no idea that Rey and Kylo were in contact. You could ask why she wasn't honest with Luke - but she keeps that to herself because she doesn't want to risk further rejection from Luke. I like that it's messy and full of what I'd consider fairly relatable, but flawed behaviour.

    @MyMotherTalzin - Luke literally apologises to Kylo, and Leia, and explains to Rey his feelings of guilt, shame and culpability. And him showing up on Crait and giving his life is one giant act of redemption. Not forgetting the fact that the one genuine aggressor in the film - Kylo Ren - knows he's the one that needs forgiveness and saving, yet rejects all of it. He knows he can't save Kylo. And by confronting Kylo in the way that he does we may come to see that he has spared Kylo further damnation. Luke cannot kill his nephew (we see that when he cannot go through with striking him down in the hut) and he does not put Kylo in a position where he kills his uncle as well as his father and seals his doom even further.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018 at 9:43 AM
  17. MotivateR5D4

    MotivateR5D4 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 20, 2015
    Fair point. Because just as in real life, there are always two sides to every story.

    But this all only happens after everything gets revealed and Luke more or less has to do something like that. Remember, he didn't even know Han had died, which shows just how out of the loop he was.

    Whereas prior to everything coming out and being confronted with the facts, Luke seemed perfectly fine leaving out his own faults in the matter.
     
  18. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2014
    What he says to Rey is broadly correct, he just lies by omitting the crucial detail re the lightsaber. This is a mistake for sure. But even there, he makes it clear to Rey that while Leia blamed Snoke, Luke blamed himself. But his shame and guilt prevents him from facing up to or confessing what actually happened there. I think that's a very understandable - though of course flawed - thing to do. We know Luke is out of the loop though - his biggest mistake is cutting himself off and turning his back on the galaxy. He can't undo what he's done in the past, but he can start to make amends for it - so I don't quite get what the issue is there. Luke is forced to confront a painful past he has tried to bury. Luke's arc is framed by failure though - I don't think the film is saying Luke is right to lie, or to walk away, or to light his saber. But I do think there are understandable reasons (or more accurately, emotions) underpinning all of it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018 at 9:57 AM
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  19. MyMotherTalzin

    MyMotherTalzin Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Battle of Crait numbers:

    I was wondering if anyone had some more official numbers than what I could glean from my last re-watch.

    When the Resistance prepare for battle, in the trenches there's maybe a couple of hundred, if that?

    In the hanger as they escape there is only 14! So nobody in the trenches survived?

    Interestingly, I counted 8 women out of the 14, so for the Resistance, the future is female :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018 at 9:59 AM
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  20. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2014
    Seems like it's the people on the Falcon at the end, however many that is.
     
  21. MotivateR5D4

    MotivateR5D4 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 20, 2015
    @Satipo: I get your points. I'm not trying to tear Luke down or anything. I just haven't really gotten around to discussing it until now.

    But like I said, at the least, it is very short sighted of Luke to not realize that eventually the whole truth will come out. And for someone who has been there and done that the way he has, he ought to have known that, and spare Rey the turmoil of going back and forth the way she did in terms of who to believe.
     
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  22. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2014
    It's definitely short sighted. I think Luke is not thinking that far ahead. For me, his frame of mind is important and he's not "healed" for most of the film (if we think of him as the Fisher King). I think when Rey tells him she still has faith in him he goes and opens himself back to the Force, and in contacting Leia it really (almost literally now I think about it) opens his eyes. We know from the novel that he's running back to tell Rey he's been wrong (I thought he'd sensed the Dark Side and that Rey might be in trouble, but I think either interpretation works). But seeing Rey and Kylo opens up all Luke's old wounds and fears again. Had that not happened, and Rey just walked back to find Rey after making contact with Leia, they would have left, and Luke would have opened up on his own about the truth at some point. But that never happens so now it happens as it does - when he's pushed to it by Rey. I just think Luke is lost in his own pain. He's lost faith in himself and he's not making good decisions.
     
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  23. MotivateR5D4

    MotivateR5D4 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 20, 2015
    But it does make you wonder if this could be a reason for Rey to not trust Luke, since it is already proven that he didn't give her the whole story, regardless of what his reasoning for that might be. I wonder if Kylo will pull on that doubt in trying to bring Rey over to his side. That even the one she thought she could trust the most was dishonest with her. I think it puts Rey in an interesting position and leaves more room for her to decide which side she wants to be on. Since she's already somewhat gravitated towards Kylo anyhow. In any event, I think at this point Rey needs to stop implicitly trusting at face value everything she is told. That's at least one lesson I hope she takes away after the events of TLJ.
     
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  24. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2014
    Yes, I think that's exactly right. Luke's behaviour towards Rey helps create an atmosphere where Kylo's version of events is enough to put doubt in her mind - especially when she then sees Kylo turning and fighting with her in her vision. But I think once Luke tells the truth, Rey accepts his account. She just disagrees with him that there is no light left in Kylo (partly inspired by Luke's own example with Vader). It's one of the reasons the film works for me. I like that points of view are fairly fluid and impact on each other. No one is fully in the right or wrong in the film in thinking what they do (maybe Rose is in the right, and Leia, but pretty much everyone else is arguably making mistakes throughout - actually, Rose is wrong to go with the plan so it's just Leia - but she was wrong in TFA so it balances out ;) ).
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018 at 11:32 AM
  25. vncredleader

    vncredleader Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 28, 2016
    I like to think that none of them died, they just played dead cause they knew that some big heroic scene was gonna happen and did not wanna die
     
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