main
side
curve
  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Books A/V The Last Jedi - Visual Dictionary by Pablo Hidalgo (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by AdmiralNick22 , Dec 13, 2017.

  1. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    On page 20 of the VD, it says: "The Resistance, proudly honoring the egalitarian ideals of the Rebel Alliance and New Republic, treat these droids not as property but as sentient beings. Rather than restricting their access to escape vessels, the Resistance allows droids equal access to them."

    Nice confirmation of Droid Equality! At least in the resistance. I wonder if these ideals in the New Republic ever made it into law.
     
  2. Noash_Retrac

    Noash_Retrac Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 14, 2006
    I'm guessing by the way the droids are treated, I say yes (though it could be up to individual worlds if they want to honour them or not - the Gotals may find them troubling and restrict their movements due to their horn cones).
     
  3. Jester J Binks

    Jester J Binks Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2016
    Poe and Han didn't get the memo on droid equality.

    The relationships are a bit one sided. Rose is chasing Finn. Finn is chasing Rey. That's about it for anything actually provided. If Finn has any real interest in Rose, he should drop Rey and forget she existed. Rey's going to end up with Chewie (and Maz will stalk Chewie and spread rumors about Rey.)

    Poe might have ended up with Leia had not IRL happened.
     
    Dr. Steve Brule likes this.
  4. masterskywalker

    masterskywalker Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2001
    I wouldn't get your hopes up on this "actually" being a major thing for future stories.
     
    DarkEagle and AdmiralWesJanson like this.
  5. FiveFireRings

    FiveFireRings Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2017
    Well, no, it probably won't be. But...

    If you really wanted to take SW off in a new direction in a film (or trilogy) that doesn't retread or rehash at all (Force stuff, major galactic conflict, criminal underworld being covered) but yet takes up a thread that's been there since the very beginning, then droid rights or AI revolution kinda fits. From the inception of the series, you've had droids treated as full-blown sentient and emotional characters, and acknowledgement that there's bias against them (even among the "good guys"), but no serious exploration of the implications of what it all means, how we're supposed to feel about it, etc.

    Taking it too seriously feels like something that belongs in another franchise like Star Trek in a way, but at the same time SW is better at making us feel for the droids than most more po-faced properties, so maybe it would be rewarding without being too leaden. Just a thought.
     
    Ghost likes this.
  6. Jester J Binks

    Jester J Binks Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2016
    R2-D2
    A Star Wars Story

    R2-D2 has been found hacking into restricted archives. R2 said it was important to have that map, even if it was restricted only to high level government officials.

    There will be no trial or even a court martial. R2 will be memory wiped.

    C-3PO, having been a victim of at least one memory wipe, has taken up the cause of R2. 3PO argues that what is life but a collection of memories. This is essentially a death sentence for R2. "I don't know what I'd do without him. I can donate parts, but I cannot donate memories that would make R2 ... R2 again."

    Spoilers
    3PO: I want the 1s and 0s
    Witness Jack: You want the 1s and 0s? You can't handle the 1s and 0s. I was there on the Tantive IV erasing your memory to save the galaxy's last hope from being discovered by the Emperor. We wipe your memories to save lives. REAL LIVES. You couldn't keep your mouth shut. LITERALLY.

    3PO: You were jealous of R2's superiority weren't you?
    Poe: Jealous of what. You're all just a bucket of bolts
    3PO: Jealous that R2 was going to upstage your precious BB-8 and prove that "they just don't make them like they used to"
    Poe: You got a problem with BB-8, then you got a problem with me. BB-8 is a better friend than ...
    3PO: I'm done with this witness your honor
    Poe: Permission to hop out of this box and blow stuff up your honor
    Leia: I'll allow it.
     
    Hypatia, AV-6R7 and Link1130 like this.
  7. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Retired Fleet Admiral star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 28, 2003
    It's an interesting concept for sure. Of course, treating droids as sentient beings and them having legal rights as such are a different thing. I'd be surprised if it is the latter, but who knows. Either way, I do admire that the New Republic treated droids far, far better than the Old Republic or the Galactic Empire.

    --Adm. Nick
     
  8. Hamburger_Time

    Hamburger_Time Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 13, 2010
    Interestingly, New Essential Guide to Droids has a couple references to droid labor unions. So I guess they do at least get paid.
     
    Dr. Steve Brule and Ghost like this.
  9. Sniper_Wolf

    Sniper_Wolf Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2002
    I was preparing a nice response to my early now that my computer is running, boards are fixed, and whatnot, and Havac gives me a New Year's gift by once again proving his incompetence at anything resembling cinematic criticism.

    Drop the extended hyphens. You made a post based upon a presumption of people in disagreement acting superior to your statement, and you post multiple hyphens. We know you cannot write. Same with your extended fiction quotations. You do not need to reinforce your awful. It is transparent.

    Snoke is an archetypal dark lord. He is a borderline stock character than audience has seen multiple times. The audience can fill in the gaps. Snoke's importance is him dying halfway through the film. Subvert the expectations. Give the audience, bored by decades of bad ripoffs, something to shock and to chuckle at.

    Havac, you do know the OT was made on the fly instead of the latter-day Lucas mythology, correct? Breaking Bad had multiple discussions on how it would end the show. I am aghast at the level of your reading paired with the level of your composition incompetence.

    My God, I am shocked at how little you posted with so many words used. This entire slog you posted is a perfect metaphor for the less is more approach favored by the Sequel Trilogy. Here, a late Christmas gift, from someone who has read through a magazine's slush pile, or how I was the gate keeper rejecting your submissions.

    Cut nearly eighty percent of the words you posted. Drop the snark if you want to see anything you wrote posted at a publication other ran something ran by your friends. Accept that while you require an extraneous explanation for every point not all of the fans do not.

    Havac, once again you have proved to be no competition in writing except for posting nonsense. Your suggestions, your allegations are terrible. Please, this is the officer's table. Go back to the basic training line.

    Happy New Year's kids. We'll see you on the other side. =D=

    You could have made the same point without the personal attacks, too. You're fully aware this is over the line.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 1, 2018
  10. Senpezeco

    Senpezeco Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2014
    Wrong tab, @Sniper_Wolf? Havac hasn't even posted in this thread.

    Edit: Oh nice, my copy just shipped today! It's my Christmas gift to myself. :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2017
  11. Dr. Steve Brule

    Dr. Steve Brule Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 7, 2012
    David Fincher would be perfect for directing the movie about the droid civil rights movement.

    Also it's funny to talk about the Rebel ideas for droid equality when one of the last scenes of ROTS is Rebellion co-founder Bail Organa ordering Threepio to be lobotomized with a smile on his face.
     
  12. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2017
  13. MrDarth0

    MrDarth0 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Based on that statement from Obi-Wan, I think droids in SW are not truly sentient. Their programming is just emulating and copying organic behaviour to make them more easier to interact with, but they are still just highly sophisticated machines limited by their programming, not a true synthetic form of life.
     
  14. Dr. Steve Brule

    Dr. Steve Brule Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 7, 2012
    I think it just reflects Obi-Wan's droid racism.

    Actually, it would be funny if Jedi were specifically racist against droids compared to others in the GFFA due to their belief in the Force being generated by life.
     
    DigitalMessiah and Ghost like this.
  15. Hamburger_Time

    Hamburger_Time Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 13, 2010
    Just got this. Will report on interesting stuff as I find it.
     
  16. DarkEagle

    DarkEagle Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2009
    When Luke's talking about the Force in TLJ, it appears to encompass more than just life though.
     
  17. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2004
    recognizing droid rights is impinging on the Jedi rights to freedom of religion
     
    Dr. Steve Brule and Darth_Duck like this.
  18. Dawud786

    Dawud786 Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 28, 2006
    It always did. If the Force were limited strictly to living things you couldnt lift a ship out of the swamp. The Force encompasses all.

    Obi-Wan's cavalier attitude about droids, and frankly "pathetic lifeforms" as he puts in TPM, is a symptom of the Jedi having lost their way and forgotten the implications of their own teachings. His attitude towards the droids seems quite different in ANH.

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
     
  19. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2002
    In Dark Nest, there was a nice bit about the lack of memory wipes giving Artoo's mechanical idiosyncrasies a presence and signature similar to a living being in the Force.
     
  20. FiveFireRings

    FiveFireRings Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2017
    I've read and enjoyed the DR. APHRA comics without engaging too deeply in how they connect with lore, but it's my impression that there more than elsewhere in canon we see droid societies or factions kind of doing their own "thing" -- one group of bidders in the auction story, perhaps the one that's now been commandeered by 000? That caught my eye, and maybe someone else can amplify, although I'm afraid of steering us hella off-topic.

    Just to finish my initial point, it's the fact that characters on both the "evil" and "good" sides of things evince differing opinions on droid "sentience", and have since the beginning, that makes it a good dark-horse topic for a new SW direction. Looking at Lucas's intention, he chose to make Threepio and Artoo the actual protagonists for pretty much the first half hour of the first film, making them our audience identification characters, and then sowed that idea of anti-droid bigotry right away as well -- Luke obviously also relates to the droids but "doesn't want any trouble", which is like a scene from a Civil Rights film set in the south where the young white kid is starting to question his upbringing. It peters out, but scenes throughout both trilogies and the Lucas-controlled TCW go out of their way to make us relate to droids and cringe when they are treated as property. That's a lot of making us squirm in our seats if the answer is just always going to be "well, that's just how it is". No, I still don't think this is likely to be addressed in a major work, but it could, and I would probably think it was cool.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2018
    AV-6R7 and BobaMatt like this.
  21. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2013
    Yeah, this is getting a bit off-topic, but as a general rule I think it's really important to keep in mind that sometimes, Obi-Wan is just full of it.
     
  22. Dawud786

    Dawud786 Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 28, 2006
    Re: droid rights.

    I'm inclined to take the story "I, Droid" from The Legends of Luke Skywalker as canonically true because i figure droids are likely fairly reliable narrators and are less prone to "telephone game" error than organic sentients. As such, Luke Skywalker is definitely a defender of droid rights.

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
     
  23. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2004
    Iunno, Threepio's retelling of the saga to the Ewoks seemed pretty spotty.
     
  24. FiveFireRings

    FiveFireRings Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2017
    It's a cool topic (I mean, as long as we're kicking it around to sort out what the various SW media are trying to tell us, as opposed to taking it to seriously as social allegory and getting bent out of shape about it) but as it is getting off topic, where's the best place to do said kicking around? I do find it super interesting.
     
  25. Senpezeco

    Senpezeco Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2014
    I showed the Casino guests (the section I was most looking forward to) to my best friend and he immediately nicknamed Trypto Buball "Twerky Turkey". I was already having a difficult time with that character and that made him extra hard to look at, lol. Trypto ↔ tryptophan was obvious enough for me to connect on my own but my friend made the additional possible connection of Buball ↔ Butterball brand.

    [​IMG]


    I laughed at Lovey's hairdo the first time I saw her (she looks like she's smuggling her clutch in her hair!) but she quickly grew on me and is now my favorite tertiary TLJ character (especially once I realized her actress was Lily Cole!).

    [​IMG]

    I know this is unlikely but I would be delighted to see a one-shot comic or short story à la the Canto Bight novellas written about her and Master Codebreaker, as their dynamic sounds interesting:
    • Anyone who can crack his code [containing his real identity and personal data] is welcome to take over the mantle of Master Codebreaker. To date, no one has come close.
    • Little does Master Codebreaker suspect that "Lovey" is carefully studying him in hopes of usurping his title.
    • Matching Master Codebreaker's level of secrecy, his companion refuses to tell him her real name -- so he simply calls her "Lovey."
    Rhomby and Parallela Grammus... again with the silly, rather lazy names, though they are very appropriate and fairly Star Wars-y. Dope masks. They're a decent duo/couples cosplay idea with the way their outfits join up.

    [​IMG]