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Lit The Last Jedi - Visual Dictionary by Pablo Hidalgo (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by AdmiralNick22 , Dec 13, 2017.

  1. Chris Werms

    Chris Werms Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Aug 2, 2017
    Since the film was pretty vague in why the rest of the systems did not respond, I figured that gives us enough wiggle room to assume Bloodline is still in play. Maybe sending out Leia's personal code was a mistake since she had been disgraced by Casterfo and Carisse. The systems ignored the distress call because Leia was putting it out, and they still did not trust her enough to go and try and fight for her.
     
  2. BeesInABar

    BeesInABar Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2015
    One of my pet peeves - the “more successful New Republic” of Legends collapsed 6 years earlier after decades of nearly constant warfare. It feels more durable because we all experienced it throughout the 90s and early 2000s while the canon New Republic got knocked out the first time we saw it. But people underestimate the scale of Mon Mothma’s achievement in canon. Three decades of peace and economic recovery! That’s more than Palpatine can claim for his Empire.

    I would expect if you were to compare the life expectancy and median income of a New Republic citizen who hadn’t experienced Thrawn’s campaigns, World Devastators, all the **** the Maw put out, the dang Krytos virus, and the Yuuzhan Vong invasion to their Legends counterpart, you’d find someone pretty happy to live in this continuity.



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  3. blackmyron

    blackmyron Force Ghost star 6

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    Oct 29, 2005
    Strictly speaking, the GFFA - lacking anything saying otherwise - had 80 years of peace in the galaxy.
     
  4. BeesInABar

    BeesInABar Jedi Knight star 1

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    Sep 20, 2015
    This is where my ignorance shows. I never really caught up on what I missed between Destiny’s Way and A New Dawn. (I should at least go back and finish the NJO, right?) The GFFA is to be commended for its longevity!

    I went a bit far afield from the Visual Dictionary, though. Sorry!


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  5. Noash_Retrac

    Noash_Retrac Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 14, 2006
    The gap between FOTJ and Legacy? How do we know that wasn't filled with twice as much chaos as before. The galaxy in Legends seemed to be on the pinnacle of war all the time and who knows who was responsible. Don't forget that the Sepan Civil War restarted sometime before Gar Stazi's time as a young officer in the GA military.
     
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  6. Hamburger_Time

    Hamburger_Time Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 13, 2010
    Also, have you noticed TLJ dropped a metric ton of unidentified aliens on us, possibly the largest such group ever? This book gives names to a lot of them, but not all, and few species names either. Now, knowing Star Wars, all this stuff will probably be revealed in intricate, nigh-uncomfortable detail later on, and as a SW alien enthusiast I'm chomping at the bit waiting for that day!
     
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  7. blackmyron

    blackmyron Force Ghost star 6

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    Oct 29, 2005
    We don't... just as we don't really know what happened between the abrupt end of the Galactic Civil War in the New Canon and the rise of the First Order. OOU, it really depends if stories are set in the time period - if they aren't, then it's probably peaceful. Until they are. ;)
     
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  8. Hamburger_Time

    Hamburger_Time Jedi Master star 2

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    Dec 13, 2010
    Given both typical human lifespan and the prophecies concerning this specific character, I like to think that the FOTJ-Legacy era was one of near-total peace and prosperity, ending when Allana Solo died.
     
  9. The_Four_Dot_Elipsis

    The_Four_Dot_Elipsis Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 3, 2005
    I think "for many years there was balance" is shorthand for a fairly quiet period
     
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  10. TheRedBlade

    TheRedBlade Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 17, 2007
    Logistically, it also would have been VERY hard for allies to get to Crait in time. Assuming that Leia's message included coordinates to get to a previously unplotted system, ships still need to be crewed, fueled (!), and armed, while dealing with whatever First Order incursions they had in their own systems. Not giving her a call back was rude, but I would totally understand if the other allies were too busy to drop everything and head to Crait.
     
  11. Noash_Retrac

    Noash_Retrac Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 14, 2006
    And how do we know that Allana even ascended the throne. We're just speculating on that aren't we?
     
  12. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    To push back on this -- there was a pretty brutal hot war on Coruscant, a lot of large-scale fighting in the span of a year across the galaxy, and Operation Cinder this time around. The Empire was beaten back pretty quickly, but also the galaxy was atomized: there isn't the New Republic of the EU as the pan-galactic government. There is also apparently some pretty severe corruption going on, and a stark difference between the haves and the haves not. The whole thing about the oppressed of the galaxy and Canto Bight and all that... the war started like a few days before TLJ, the oppressed of the galaxy were living in the largely unequal galaxy under the New Republic's watch.

    There were 30 years due to an absence of external factors, sure. No massive alien invasion. What was the quality of that peace, though?

    In the years before TFA, Leia thought it was all in danger of falling apart. By all accounts it was a disaster.

    I submit that the canon New Republic only sounds peaceful and prosperous only because we haven't read about the drama that everyone went through. :)

    Quiet in terms of upheavals, probably. In terms of the average person -- who knows?
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
  13. BeesInABar

    BeesInABar Jedi Knight star 1

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    Sep 20, 2015
    I’ll admit, the fact that the ship’s crew in Legends of Luke Skywalker also seemed to be paid in food portions like Rey on Jakku instilled a bit of doubt in me about the state of the economy, but that was also in the Corporate Sector...


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  14. The_Four_Dot_Elipsis

    The_Four_Dot_Elipsis Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Mar 3, 2005
    Exactly, but that's the point all of a sudden.
     
  15. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 7

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    Oct 13, 2003
    Well, TFA opens with Lor San Tekka saying how the galaxy lives in despair... and this is before the FO unveiled itself.
     
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  16. Hamburger_Time

    Hamburger_Time Jedi Master star 2

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    Dec 13, 2010
    The FO was oppressing planets out in the sticks well before they made their play for "civilized" space, though, weren't they?
     
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  17. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 28, 2003
    You do brings up some good points and interesting ideas, @GrandAdmiralJello.

    It all really depends on the metrics we're grading the New Republic on. In terms of restoring democratic government, it was successful. So successful that the darkest side of democracy popped up in later years. As Leia notes in TFA's novelization, worlds, galactic trade, and communications (ie, infrastructure) were all nearing full restoration. World's were liberated, displaced or wronged peoples given reparations, and slavery was outlawed*.

    (*Outlawed in New Republic Space, more on that in a moment).

    No government, of course, is perfect. I do think though that the Galaxy faired better under the New Republic of canon compared to the Legends one. Hell, your beloved Coruscant sure as hell did. It was spared planetwide devastation from the Imperial Civil War, spared the horrors of Vongforming, and spared the banana republic's we saw pop up in the late EU (Chief of State of the week, no elections, etc).

    I think the most interesting thing you bring up is the whole Canto Bight slavery issue. The Corporate Sector and Cantonica aren't part of the New Republic, so therefore they are not subject to their laws. The New Republic, for all it's ideals, egalitarianism, and democratic liberties, can't or won't help those people. It's really interesting to dissect that whole issue. What right does the New Republic have to interfere in the affairs of independent worlds? Does it use force (even the reduced Defense Force was the largest navy in the Galaxy at the time of TFA, save the secret fleet of the FO), or does it impose sanctions?

    I don't have an answer, but I'll throw this thought out there for discussion - if the New Republic was larger and more influential, would it have been better positioned to oppose slavery? There's nothing shown that implies New Republic citizens had a low standard of living (I'd argue the New Republic, freed of massive defense spending, gave it's citizens a very high standard of living), but is that okay? Is it okay for the Galaxy to have a peaceful, prosperous New Republic alongside worlds that oppress and enslave? We see these sorts of issues in our own world as well. So you could argue the New Republic "failed" in that it's light didn't spread farther than it did.

    Having said all that, for me personally, I'll gladly take the New Republic we were shown in the new canon over the old EU. The Galactic Alliance started off alright, but the travesty it became in the post-NJO (which I frankly blame on shoddy writing, uncreative plots, and a sudden desire to ape the Prequels) isn't anything to hold up.

    --Adm. Nick
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
  18. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    Good post, but I wanted to clarify this point.

    I don't think the New Republic gave its citizens anything. Leia mentions at one point in Bloodline how the Populists had previous success in getting the New Republic Senate out of the business of its member worlds, including privatizing healthcare. The response to defense cuts wasn't increased living standards provided by the Republic government, it was tax cuts and even more spending cuts. So it would have really depended on how prosperous the world was, there was no sharing of the wealth. Which probably helped lead to the corruption in the Senate, with the only way to get investment for your world (after the initial rebuilding) was likely through shady corrupt deals. And the ones who became richest and most influential were the arms dealers, selling to both the Republic and the First Order.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
  19. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2013
    It's pretty clear that there's a long peaceful period before Legacy, though the start of it would have always been impossible to pin down for... the usual post-NJO reasons. I personally deal with that by just ignoring everything after TUF, which results in an impressive near-century of general peace - but OTOH, it took way longer to get there than in the canon continuity.)
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
  20. blackmyron

    blackmyron Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2005
    I've thought about that, but the double whammy of both the Essential Guide to Warfare and Mercy Kill ended that train of thought for me.
     
  21. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Nick -- certainly in the new continuity, the Imperial Palace was never blown up by Borsk Fey'lya. On the other hand, we don't have a proper Imperial Palace at all, just some nonsense with the Temple... but that's besides the point I suppose :p

    I suggest that the galaxy had less war and had a bit of prosperity, but I've likened it to 19th century liberalism before: political liberation of the bourgeoisie without any following social reforms. Everyone in the galaxy is equal... but the playing field sure isn't.

    And no, I don't mean that the New Republic should occupy Canto Bight. I mean that the arms contractors that are getting rich are doing so on the New Republic's watch. The TFA VG had things to say about the corruption of the New Republic and those companies like KDY, SFS, etc. and I think there's a direct connection from that to TFA.
     
  22. jSarek

    jSarek VIP star 4 VIP

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2005
    The Visual Dictionary clarifies that it's rhodochrosite (yes, not only does the geology of Crait get discussed, but for once, a real mineral gets used!). But still, don't you put it in your mouth ...

    Egads, what sick bastard made those puppets! They're the stuff of which nightmares are made.
     
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  23. themoth

    themoth Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 5, 2015
    Finally got this book, along with cross sections, due to being busy with travelling. Always enjoy these.
     
  24. Hamburger_Time

    Hamburger_Time Jedi Master star 2

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    Dec 13, 2010
    One of the most fascinating tidbits in the book, for me, is that unlike other elderly Force-users we've seen, such as Sidious, Tyrannus, and of course Yoda, Snoke is legitimately straight-up infirm due to his age. His Force abilities can't be denied, it's true, but with him it's actually not quite enough to offset his physical frailty, hence the Praetorians really are necessary unlike Sheev's guards.
     
  25. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    I do think the First Order NEEDED the Last Jedi, though, because if they didn't actually defeat the New Republic then they were never going to be taken seriously by the fandom. The sheer number of people who talked smack about the First Order on these forums and all the other sci-fi forums I frequented was tremendous.

    Fake Imperials
    Incompetent kids
    A bunch of poseurs
    And so on and so on.

    Say what you will about The Last Jedi (and I didn't care for it), the First Order at least looks like a legitimately threatening organization now.
     
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