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Discussion The Last Jedi wins AARP award as Best Film for Grownups

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Sequel Trilogy (Released Films)' started by Ender_and_Bean, Feb 6, 2018.

  1. Darth Vain

    Darth Vain Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2016
    Well, this one's almost as divisive as TLJ. If Bladerunner is the standard and I give it a 10 (though it has it's flaws) I'd give BR 2049 a 7.5 - it isn't quite the mood piece the original was.. Shame there isn't a general film thread, or music thread for that matter.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
    Satipo likes this.
  2. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    BR2049 had really inactive antagonism.

    Especially considering the antagonists incredible resources. This lead to low stakes and low tension. The only scene where there’s any real worry is for the human police chief who’s killed by a replicant but we are left wondering if they’re willing to kill a police chief why they wouldn’t be willing to torture the older and off the grid Deckard at all and why their only way to get info out of him was to recreate his old love and leave the rest for “off world.” That’s contrived obviously.

    There’s also nothing to explain why Jared Leto’s character is so obsessed with the procreation at all on screen considering its far faster and easier to just create replicants than have them reproduce somehow through some unexplained miracle.

    Such a miracle also should have lead to an uprising that’s only hinted at and which still seems fairly small scale. The uprising in fact seems smaller than the child exploitation ring in film.

    It’s also hard to believe that not only would the first replicant offspring, who can’t interact with the outside world for health reasons, would land such an integral job creating memories for replicants and that someone with the resources of Leto’s character, as reliant as he is on her for her dreams, would not be suspicious of her past or this mysterious health issue she has that keeps her hidden and why she’s so amazing at understanding what replicants want while essentially searching (half-heartedly and with minimal agency despite his vast resources) for a “chosen one” type.

    It looks amazing and has terrific atmosphere and the AI love story is surprisingly moving. A lot of the elements are there in BR2049 but it seems more dull and more contrived and more muddied in motivation on behalf of the antagonists to truly become the classic it could have been.
     
  3. bizzbizz

    bizzbizz Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2015
    its a well made movie and deserves the awards it wins
     
    themoth likes this.
  4. Ricardo Funes

    Ricardo Funes Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2015
    As usual, you "get it". Perfect analysis.

    ^:)^=D=
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
    jaqen and Nate787 like this.
  5. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I’m 46 and if I identified with any character, it was Holdo or Leia. I liked what the story did with Luke, I thought it was a good way for him to come full circle and pass the baton, and his lines on Crait are some of my favorite in the Saga. But I wouldn’t say I identify with him.
     
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  6. ThreeDeathstickProblem

    ThreeDeathstickProblem Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 25, 2014
    Hey now, don't knock TFA's award bonafides. TFA was nominated for best film editing by the Oscars, which usually only gives that nod to best picture nominees.
     
  7. Bowen

    Bowen Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 6, 1999
    Yeah, gosh, if only there was like... a 10th spot or something... that maybe the Best Picture category had that year, I don't know, probably crazy to dream. BUT if they did have a 10th spot open and just chose not to nominate anything at all, boy, wouldn't that have been nice to nominate the highest grossing movie ever made in North America (by far) for a Best Picture award, you know, considering it also had basically universal praise from critics. I am so stupid, though, when will I learn that if you make a movie that's popular with audiences and critics, you vastly reduce your odds of getting a Best Picture nomination.

    I wish the Oscars were about nominating the best movies every year, rather than just nominating movies mostly nobody saw to help them out or whatever. If for no other reason than that people like me, film buffs, want to go through the list of Best Picture nominees and see them all so we can feel like we're educated in cinematic arts, blah blah, etc. But if you're not even trying to nominate the 10 most significant films of the year, really, what's the point? The list will become borderline useless.

    There was a time too when the Oscars weren't pretentious, but now you have to look for the other awards like this one to get any sort of real reading on what actual people think about movies. In the past, you'd never see a spectacle and massive success like TFA not nominated for Best Picture. TLJ would have been too, for sure. They nominated The Towering Inferno for god's sake! Gradually, though, it became almost like a game, "Can we nominate all of the worst movies of the year?" Usually, the answer is yes. Every year, if I made a list of the 5 worst movies I saw all year -- and I see almost everything -- at least 3 or 4 of those will end up Best Picture nominees. Last year, Phantom Thread was the worst of the year but it's honestly close because Call Me By Your Name was just as bad, both got nominated, and so did Lady Bird. Those are the 3 worst movies of the year for me and every single one nominated for BEST, it's like living in opposite world. And then there's Three Billboards, which escapes being the 4th worst movie of the year because there was also Mother! and that was just as bad as the 3 worst but didn't get nominated. So you have 4 of the 5 worst movies of the year got Best Picture nominations. Good job Oscars! If I didn't work in the film industry I'd take one look at the Best Picture nomination list and make sure to avoid all of them, just for safety. Sure I'd miss a few great films but it'd be totally worth it to miss the Moonlights and Boyhoods and Lady Birds of the world.
     
  8. jaqen

    jaqen Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 22, 2004
    @Bowen Powerful post. I was a teenager in high school when the SE dropped, and am in my 30s as well. Your post really hit home. It has themes that have been on my mind for years, as some of my artistic dreams have drifted out of my grasp, but never out of my desire. And I too am trying to return home again, to "kill the past", to chase those dreams down. God speed to you.

    I'll admit that you and @Ender_and_Bean have managed to expand the profundity of Luke's arc for me, and I say this as someone who already loved the approach RJ took. Thank you both.
     
  9. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Fearless Vampire Killer star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    Recent winners of the Best Film award include Cocoon and The Best Exotic Marigold Hotel.
     
  10. Generational Fan

    Generational Fan Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Oct 21, 2015
    And it was this line of thinking that provoked massive reactions and divisions in the fandom of this masterpiece he created. I'm not trying to turn this into a "bash" or a "vs", but George was wrong in thinking this because he failed to realise that once a person becomes hooked on all of this, they are hooked for life and never stop being a fan.

    And from my point of view, with age comes a "want" for something deeper, more complex and more meaningful in respect of plot line and in character development; especially in character development. I'm not saying that I don't enjoy the space battles, the lightsaber fights and the rest of the wondrous lights, explosions, special effects and so on - because I do and if I was to level one critique at TLJ that is slightly negative, its that TLJ didn't have enough of this aspect.

    But as I continue to age, I find myself less and less willing to accept stuff (media) that could be considered "superficial"; hence I don't tend to watch as much television anymore. Reality television, *barf* *puke*, low grade action actions films, ah, no thanks.

    And the same mindset is applied to the "media" I really love - Star Wars. Whilst I will always love everything Star Wars, I don't receive it "as well" if the film is produced with the mindset that "my" target audience are 12 year old children - especially where the depth in acting and character development is thrown somewhat out for the sake of entertaining children with dazzling lights, vivid colours, explosions and so on. And this is where TLJ 95% succeeded, it raised the target audience age to include fans of all ages - there was almost enough for all ages in the movie I felt.

    If JJ was to use the "RJ template" and improve that 5% (more space battles, lightsaber fights and so on), then I feel that 9 would be as close to a perfect Star Wars film as possible.
     
    Sarge and Ender_and_Bean like this.
  11. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I like Rebels and supposedly the target age is elementary school. My reaction to complaints that the stormtroopers can’t hit anything and the Empire never wins is “And...?” Hera is a badass, Kanan and Zeb are snarky, Sabine does funny art, and they do occasionally get in trouble with the Empire to the point where the viewer wonders how they’ll get out, even if there is no question that they will, and that’s good enough for me. I still like happy endings and I want the characters to be people that I’d want to hang out with, and some might argue that those desires are not “adult”.

    I’m with you on reality TV, I feel like most of the shows make a point to find the most stupid and most annoying people alive and put a camera in front of their faces. But I usually love a good action movie. Unless it shows Superman and Zod knocking each other over and breaking buildings for an hour and then it becomes a matter of, yeah...move along, and where’s Amy Adams?
     
    Generational Fan likes this.
  12. Generational Fan

    Generational Fan Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Oct 21, 2015
    I completely agree with all of your sentiments here and I should have probably been a little more specific about my "wants" in Star Wars because this mainly applies to the feature films. I'm with you, I love Rebels and I love The Clone Wars cartoons and all of the wonderful stories they tell and the world building they do. With the mediums/platforms like the cartoons, the comics and the computer games (ie. Battlefront), I tend to relax my stances on things and become more accepting of things that if they were to happen in the films, I would be saying things like "That's rubbish, they can't do that". Its just the "feel" of these formats that allow you to become more accepting and more willing to overlook stuff that would annoy in the films.

    But in saying that, I feel the cartoons do have very good character development and do capture emotion and interaction really well. And only rarely are things done in the cartoons that make me cringe and start to raise the bristles on my body. I too, as a 40 year old man, enjoy watching the cartoons because there are some great stories in there and the characters draw me in for who they are in personality.
     
  13. scuiggefest

    scuiggefest Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2002
    "Old people like this movie" was not anywhere in my post. (Read it again, it'll help). If I had posted that, I can see why you would have been confused, but I didn't so you shouldn't be.

    If that's not enough to clear things up, look at the title of this thread again. Best film for grownups. Best film for grownups. I'm not making this up. Just read the thread title again. It's not just handed out in the name of grownups. The name of the award is the best film FOR grownups. Now, honestly, if you still don't know what the connection is between the two statements, PM me and I'll explain it to you; I have basically unlimited patience.

    As far as Benioff and Weiss, yes I am aware that they're fully capable of creating a project for kids. I'm not a moron. As you know, filmmakers frequently make projects with some similarities to their past work. Since as far as I know Benioff and Weiss have never created anything for kids, it would have been reassuring if they had said with the announcement "don't worry, it'll be kid friendly". Like, I can sort of appreciate you taking the time to explain the obvious here, but the fact that Benioff and Weiss are capable of helming a project for kids was already implicit in my original post. Look at it again: "are kids still the Star Wars target demo? I'd feel better with some reassurance that they are." The fact that I asked the question obviously implies that I'm aware that the answer could be yes; I just wasn't certain. Again, I am aware that any filmmaker is capable of making a movie for kids. Pointing that out really doesn't answer my question. If you still don't understand, PM me and I can try to explain.

    @ewoksimon thank you. Your post really does make me feel much better.
     
  14. Oissan

    Oissan Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 9, 2001
    Well that sure was a whole lot of nothing...
    In no way, shape or form does "best film for grownups" mean that it is aimed at grownups or only works for grownups. You somehow manage to twist the entire meaning of this on its head. A movie can be interesting for kids, young adults and older adults at the same time. There is absolutely nothing that says "this movie happened to be liked by those who hand out an award for grown ups, therefore it must have been meant for them and younger audiences won't see anything in it". Your entire logic is based on this weird idea that an award for grownups being handed to this film would somehow preclude younger audiences from doing the same. That simply makes no sense. Star Wars has always been for all audiences. Just because a very specific part of that audience decides that this has been the best movie to them, doesn't mean that other audiences can't feel the same way, or that the movie was somehow targeting this specific audience. Your entire argument therefore falls flat.

    There is no need for them to make a statement like "don't worry, it'll be kid-friendly", because one again, you take an illogcal assumption and move from there to an equally illogical conclusion. Them currently making GoT has nothing to do with their future projects or their capability to deliver something different. Star Wars being for all ages doesn't mean that they have to make special announcements for it to be kid friendly either. You asking that question directly implies that it somehow isn't the case, not what you wrote above. And all that based on nothing but your thoughts, not actual facts. The names associated with a project have little to do with whether the project is aimed at a specific audience or not. Therefore the entire question is moot to begin with. If the guy who made Jaws can make ET, and the guy known for horror-movies deliver a good Spiderman, why would you automatically jump to the conclusion that Star Wars needs to clarify whether it is still aimed at kids just because the creative leads are currently working on a project aimed at a mature audience?

    Lucasfilm doesn't need to clarify anything. Star Wars is and always will be for all audiences. There might be the occasional project that is aiming at an older audience (Rogue One kind of fits that picture), just like there are and will be projects aimed at younger audiences (the animated tv-shows would fit that bill, and TPM to some extent as well). They aren't going to turn Star Wars into something it isn't. Therefore ther is no need state something that has always been the case. It's not like there haven't been darker elements before. ESB was hardly a true kids-movie, and neither was ROTS.
     
  15. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    First time I’ve heard of this award.
     
  16. scuiggefest

    scuiggefest Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2002
    Okay, @Oissan . You're about to see why I suggested taking this entirely pointless exchange to PM. Here goes:

    "Well that sure was a whole lot of nothing..."


    Did it occur to you that I'm not defending the arguments that you're falsely attributing to me because I never made them and don't agree with them?

    "In no way, shape or form does "best film for grownups" mean that it is aimed at grownups or only works for grownups."

    It doesn't necessarily mean it's aimed at grownups. Why can't you see that it could be taken as a sign that it might be? Read my original post again. And I certainly never said or implied that it would mean it only works for grownups.

    "You somehow manage to twist the entire meaning of this on its head."

    Tell me what you think I've twisted the entire meaning into, and I'll tell you if I agree or not.

    "A movie can be interesting for kids, young adults and older adults at the same time."

    I agree with this statement. If you think I've said or implied otherwise, then you're imagining things.

    "There is absolutely nothing that says "this movie happened to be liked by those who hand out an award for grown ups, therefore it must have been meant for them and younger audiences won't see anything in it"."

    It doesn't necessarily mean it was meant for grownups. Why can't you see that it could be taken as a sign that suggests it might have been? Read my original post again. (And I certainly never said younger audiences won't see anything in it; that would have been utterly nonsensical if I had.)

    "Your entire logic is based on this weird idea that an award for grownups being handed to this film would somehow preclude younger audiences from doing the same."

    You are wrong. So, so wrong. Try reading my original post to see why.

    "That simply makes no sense."

    Kinda makes you wonder if it was ever said in the first place, doesn't it?

    "Star Wars has always been for all audiences."

    False. George Lucas reiterates Star Wars is for ‘12-year-olds,’ calls out ‘mean’ critics
    https://www.polygon.com/2017/4/13/15288998/george-lucas-star-wars-celebration

    "Just because a very specific part of that audience decides that this has been the best movie to them, doesn't mean that other audiences can't feel the same way, or that the movie was somehow targeting this specific audience."

    It doesn't necessarily mean the movie targets that audience. Why can't you see that it could be taken as a sign that suggests it might target that specific audience? Read my original post again.

    "Your entire argument therefore falls flat."

    Tell me what you think my entire argument is, and I'll tell you if I agree with it or not.

    "There is no need for them to make a statement like "don't worry, it'll be kid-friendly", "

    I agree. Do you see how what you just said can be true, and it still might have been nice if they had made such a statement?

    "because one again, you take an illogcal assumption"

    Tell me what you think my illogcal assumption is, and I'll tell you if I agree with it or not.

    "and move from there to an equally illogical conclusion."

    Tell me what you think my illogical conclusion is, and I'll tell you if I agree with it or not.

    "Them currently making GoT has nothing to do with their future projects or their capability to deliver something different. "

    Nothing to do with it? That's the claim you want to make? That their current project has nothing to do with their future projects? Nothing? It's such a nonsensical claim that I assume you must have simply miscommunicated, but if that's really the claim you want to make, here are countersources:
    Please Explain How Your Past Personal And Professional Experience Make You A Quality Candidate For The Position For Which You Are Applying?
    https://employment.blurtit.com/3013...nd-professional-experience-make-you-a-quality
    Focus your resume on job experience that’s relevant to a specific position to improve your chances of getting that job.
    http://www.dummies.com/careers/find-a-job/resumes/how-to-focus-a-resume-on-relevant-job-experience/
    We cannot predict the future with absolute certainty under any conditions. However, we can see patterns from history, so we can make educated predictions of trends or possible scenarios.
    https://www.quora.com/Can-we-predict-the-future-from-history


    "Star Wars being for all ages doesn't mean that they have to make special announcements for it to be kid friendly either."

    I agree. Do you see how what you just said can be true, and it still might have been nice if they had made such a statement?

    "You asking that question directly implies that it somehow isn't the case, not what you wrote above."

    In your imagination, perhaps.

    "And all that based on nothing but your thoughts, not actual facts."

    Please, just read my original post again and tell me whether I included actual facts or not.

    "The names associated with a project have little to do with whether the project is aimed at a specific audience or not. "

    I agree. Do you see how what you just said can be true, and yet it still isn't true that the names associated with a project have nothing to do with it?

    "Therefore the entire question is moot to begin with."

    If by moot you mean "subject to debate, dispute, or uncertainty, and typically not admitting of a final decision" then I am entirely in agreement. Indeed, that was the entire point of my original post. Would it kill you to just read it?

    "If the guy who made Jaws can make ET, and the guy known for horror-movies deliver a good Spiderman, why would you automatically jump to the conclusion that Star Wars needs to clarify whether it is still aimed at kids just because the creative leads are currently working on a project aimed at a mature audience?"

    Why would you jump to the conclusion that I would jump to that conclusion? Read my original post again.

    "Lucasfilm doesn't need to clarify anything."

    I agree. Do you see how what you just said can be true, and it still might have been nice if they had clarified?

    "Star Wars is and always will be for all audiences."

    False. George Lucas: ‘Star Wars’ Is a ‘Film for 12-Year-Olds’ http://observer.com/2017/04/george-lucas-says-star-wars-is-for-12-year-olds/

    "There might be the occasional project that is aiming at an older audience (Rogue One kind of fits that picture), just like there are and will be projects aimed at younger audiences (the animated tv-shows would fit that bill, and TPM to some extent as well)."

    I agree entirely, and for once I agree that this statement is relevant to what I said originally. How nice it would have been if you had just said this, and left out all the nonsense.

    "They aren't going to turn Star Wars into something it isn't."

    I think you're right, but I've experienced some doubts lately. That was the point of my original post. It's still up there, just in case you'd like to read it.

    "Therefore ther is no need state something that has always been the case."

    I agree. Do you see how what you just said can be true, and it still might have been nice if they had stated it?

    "It's not like there haven't been darker elements before. ESB was hardly a true kids-movie, and neither was ROTS."

    Agreed and agreed. Two more statements that are actually relevant to what I had said. I suppose 3 out of 26 isn't that bad.

    Conclusion: All I ask is that if you really want to continue this discussion, you read and respond to what I actually said in my original post, and leave the nonsense out of it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018