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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

"...the last of the Jedi will you be."

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Darth_Shpydar, Mar 22, 2007.

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  1. 000

    000 Jedi Master star 4

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    Oct 18, 2005
  2. TalonCard

    TalonCard •Author: Slave Pits of Lorrd •TFN EU Staff star 5 VIP

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    Jan 31, 2001
    Erling Tredway can't be counted as a Jedi; he was just the son of a Jedi with a lot of natural ability and no apparent training, certainly none under the Jedi Order as Yoda knew it.

    TC
     
  3. DarthDubya05

    DarthDubya05 Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Dec 1, 2005
    the way i saw it, Vader was the last of the Jedi.
     
  4. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 7 VIP

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    Aug 19, 2002
    Because he was a Sith? :confused:

    McEwok: Just because they survived 66 doesn't mean they survived the subsequent 20+ years. By the time Yoda said "the last of the Jedi will you be," he could very well have been right.
     
  5. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 29, 2005
    Actually, I think a rather good case can be made for Renz as an outcast. He holds rank in the GAR as a colonel, not a general as every single other Jedi Knight does. He also has a wife and children. In fact, barring Lord of War confirming him undoubtedly as an active, mainline Jedi Knight (even a mention as a Jedi doesn't quite cut it, given various references to people like Dooku as Jedi even after having left the Order), I'd say excommunication is the only explanation to make sense in his case.
     
  6. Carnage04

    Carnage04 Jedi Knight star 5

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    Mar 8, 2005
    Yoda contributed very much to the formation of the New Republic. He and Obi-Wan formulated a plan for victory of the Empire and the Sith that would span over 20 years. They waited for a sign from the force, stuck with the plan, and ultimately succeeded....so no, I don't think you can classify Yoda as such.

    Fighting the Empire doesn't have to involve running around and slicing up stormtroopers every day. That is the sort of "Jediness" that got them in trouble in the first place. Obi-Wan and Yoda hardly packed up after RoTS and went on to live the high life. Yoda spent the entire time in isolation with no sentient contact and very few technological luxeries. Obi-Wan went and lived as a crazy old hermit in a small hut in a baking hot desert that was swarming with sand people.

    Carnage
     
  7. Jedimarine

    Jedimarine Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 13, 2001
    I think even at the time of return of the jedi, this was a statement to be taken with a grain of salt...

    was Luke the last of the Jedi? Perhaps the last "trained" who actually claimed the title and represented what it meant to be one. It's a dramatic statement about "hope" being invested in Luke...and when Luke stands up to the emperor and says "I am a Jedi"...that is Luke taking on what Yoda had said fully.

    Did yoda know about other Jedi? I doubt it...all jedi would be hiding themselves from detection in the force, even from each other...one torture session of a weak willed padawan could give up all that remain. After 20 years of living on dagobah, with perhaps the only source of knowledge about other jedi being the "feel" of their deaths...he probably was confident in saying to Luke, you are the last.

    And considering even 5 years after, the majority of "survivors" still haven't revealed themselves, to Luke or anyone else. Thus you get the whole "not the last of the old, but the first of the new" statement...which was just as much a truism.

    It's a statement based as much on hope as it is on experience...not a scientific "take it to the bank" certainty.

    Until we find out the Quinlan Vos has been alive and maintaining the Jedi order in another galaxy...yoda's words are true.
     
  8. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 7 VIP

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    Aug 19, 2002
    So...Luke was the last of the Jedi.
     
  9. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jul 24, 2005
    Doesn't explain Qu Rahn, who Yoda *knew* about as well... gah. Nevermind.
     
  10. rumsmuggler

    rumsmuggler Chosen One star 7

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    Aug 31, 2000
    Yoda, even in his reformed self in the OT was still full of **** at times.
     
  11. Corusca_One

    Corusca_One Jedi Master star 3

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    Oct 24, 2005
    Perhaps this line of dialogue was cut from the script?

    Yoda: Everything i tell you is a lie...

    [face_mischief]
     
  12. rumsmuggler

    rumsmuggler Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 31, 2000
    :oops:
    I would die laughing if he said that, but I would agree with that if Obi Wan said that..
     
  13. TwiLekJedi

    TwiLekJedi Pretty Ex-Mod star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 14, 2001
    this recently came up in another forum, so I'd like to ask again: What was the number of Jedi Order66 survivors? The 200 from that one thread Ewok linked to? And that's Order 66 survivors, not Purge survivors (so there would be even less by ANH and/or RotJ)? And it only counts Jedi, not Dark Jedi, not other random Force users?

    Because I never liked how many Force-users were still oh so miraculously there during the CT, but once I saw there was a (semi-)official capped number (?) my mind was eased quite a bit. I just ... forgot that number [face_blush]
     
  14. Jedimarine

    Jedimarine Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 13, 2001
    Perhaps Yoda saw a vision of Rahn's death...and thus discounted him.

    Again, I stress taking the statement less literally. Luke was the last jedi "hope"...and perhaps it was just as plausible to see Luke as the last because he would be the last of the old school, and all future jedi (even those still alive from the old days) would look to him for the future of the jedi.

    Otherwise we can start the process of turning Yoda into the Vegere acolyte and press ever closer to completely destroying the Jedi and their hypocritical codes. End the witch hunt now.
     
  15. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 7 VIP

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    Aug 19, 2002
    Again, IIRC, except for Qu Rahn, most of the remaining "Jedi" by the time of RotJ were either not acting very much like Jedi, were indisposed somehow, or both. Empatajayos Brand, for example, was weakened, living in a metal ball, and acting as King of an obscure people. This is why I responded such to the initial quoted post, Jedimarine. If a surviving "Jedi" was not "trained" or did not "claim the title and represent what it means to be one," then they're not Jedi, they're former Jedi. It's like someone saying, "I'm a priest, even though I never finished seminary" or "I'm a priest, even though I left the church, gave up my vows plus any obligation I had to them, and am now married with children."
     
  16. SephyCloneNo15

    SephyCloneNo15 Jedi Knight star 5

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    Apr 9, 2005
    But if they hold on to the Roman Collar...
     
  17. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 7 VIP

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    Aug 19, 2002
    Then they're blaspheming, and are offensive to their prior life, which puts us right back to the original point: most of the Jedi left over were heretics, exiles, renouncers, converts to the dark side, or busy doing something else.
     
  18. DarthDubya05

    DarthDubya05 Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Dec 1, 2005
    the way i see it, when vader dies, he is the last of the Old jedi Order, the last Fully Trained one, at the most.
     
  19. SephyCloneNo15

    SephyCloneNo15 Jedi Knight star 5

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    Apr 9, 2005
    Until every story in the DT is told, I doubt we'll get a definite answer :D

    I seem to recall Randy mentioning somewhere (waaaaaaaay to lazy to even try and remember what thread, much less look it up) that he didn't want an official count because it would hamper storytelling potential and we'd be sitting around counting down the remaining Jedi who could still have their story told...or something like that (it was a while ago).
     
  20. TwiLekJedi

    TwiLekJedi Pretty Ex-Mod star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 14, 2001
    You'd think the very clear implication of Order 66, "the Jedi are all but extinct" and "the last of the Jedi you will be" hampered storytelling potential.

    besides... there was a number
     
  21. SephyCloneNo15

    SephyCloneNo15 Jedi Knight star 5

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    Apr 9, 2005
    Quite the contrary, it demands the addition to the story of how said Jedi survived the Purge.
     
  22. PerfectCell

    PerfectCell Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Jun 3, 2005
    I think having a definitive number does create sort of a count down system, where as every story of one of the Jedi that survived is over you know how many more can come, no more than that definitive number. Without the difinitive number as time goes by more and more stories can be told and no one will really have any idea of when they will end. The amount of stories shouldn't get out of hand because then that would render Order 66 and the subsequent purge to be pretty meaningless, but I would much rather prefer it to be where the number isn't known and therefore the number of stories isn't restricted.
     
  23. TwiLekJedi

    TwiLekJedi Pretty Ex-Mod star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 14, 2001
    I don't care if it's a good idea to have a number or not, I want the number I've read. Information, not opinion.

    Most people, including my former self, who had something against all those other Jedi, almost-Jedi, half-Jedi, not-quite-Jedi and even Dark Jedi (not Sith) didn't like the fact that EU invented several hundred exceptions to all those mentions of hunting, destroying, extinction, death, killing, executing Jedi.
    How does "you and me are the last and I'll be dead in a minute" demand hundreds of exceptions?

    What put my mind at ease was that the ridiculousness of it all at least gets contained. Otherwise it's like bad fanfiction. The Jedi don't love - except my Mary Sue Obi-Wan fell desperately in love with until she sacrficed herself for him. And mine. And mine. Mine, too!

    Exceptions are rare. Rarity needs a limit.
     
  24. Nobody145

    Nobody145 Force Ghost star 5

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    Feb 9, 2007
    I always took Yoda's line to mean Luke's was the Galaxy's last Jedi hope(ful), as well as the last person who might be able to end the Emperor's reign. So, essentially, their last and only hope. There was Leia too, but both Yoda and Obi-wan were dead, so they had already given Luke all the help they could, so he was it.

    I mean, look at Luke's qualifications. One, he's a Skywalker, which means he's extremely powerful. In fact, he's probably the only person who has the potential to be more powerful than the Emperor (well, him and Leia), with how Vader's not able to use as much as powerful as Anakin could. Also, as a Skywalker, Darth Vader has a soft spot for him. Not that much of one, but it would be enough to make Vader hesitate, as more than anything else, he valued family originally. And as we've seen, he doesn't have much problem cutting down old comrades, so not much else would slow Vader down. Also, Obi-wan has spent years watching Luke, so he knows that Luke, despite his flaws (though those flaws are part of youth as well), is still probably a better person than Anakin originally was, so less susceptible to falling to the dark side. As well, due to his basic farmboy nature, he's the almost perfect person to shape a newer, better Jedi Order. Though Luke's NJO still has a few problems with it, but he's working on it. And by Legacy at least, the NJO was stable enough that only an external force made it scatter/fall.

    And even if Luke died, there was still the off-chance that Leia would somehow end up saving the galaxy, at least a back-up plan. It might not be as a Jedi, but there was still a chance Leia would find out she had Force power too.

    Although I am getting tried of having Jedi pop up post the OT. Sure, some I don't mind, especially given their origins. Like Vima looks like she's been like that for decades, others were barely alive or really far out and had no chance of ever reviving the Jedi Order. And I don't think we really need a list of survivors, as either they'll pop up sooner or later somewhere, or else we can assume they just disappeared and ended up dying quietly.

    I like the EU, but I sometimes get tired of it undercutting the movies. Sometimes its simpler just to take the movie just as they're presented, though with the wooki these days, I'm almost obsessed enough to look up any and every name and place they mention in the movies to see if they're touched on elsewhere.
     
  25. beccatoria

    beccatoria Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2006
    QFT.
     
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