The late-2002/early-2003 Fanfiction Awards Ceremony --- Discussion in progress.

Discussion in 'Fan Fiction and Writing Resource' started by Amidala_Skywalker, May 2, 2003.

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  1. Aunecah_Skywalker Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 25, 2002
    star 5
    Mel??? I thought she said several times that she wouldn't get near another awards program with a ten-foot pole stick :confused:

    Well, running the Summer Awards program is something I've been interested in - and thinking seriously about - but judging from Am's profile, I thought maybe she had it mind to do all the award programs from now on ...

    If not, Am, contact me, because I sure would be willing to do that. ;)

    Aunecah
  2. Amidala_Skywalker Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 4, 2001
    star 5
    Thanks, all! I?m glad the off-site link was helpful :).

    Yes, Mel has kindly volunteered to host the next awards. Aunecah, I think I need to start updating my profile ;). Send a PM Mel?s way and see what she says.

    Jane, I believe it would be called the ?Summer 2003 Awards?. At least that?s what Mel had in the subject line of her PM to me.

    Am [face_love]
  3. sabrelight Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2000
    star 4
    Congrats to all the winners and runner ups (special mention to Excal, Jaxx, Jedi Suzeran, Bobill, Belly up and Jade Max)

    Great show Amidala, it is sad to know you won't be doing the next awards.
  4. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    CYN: I prefer to call Mel "brave". ;)

    She has a few equally "brave" people volunteering to help her out. (*raises hand* :D ) Aunecah: Considering how big a job this is, I'm sure she'd be interested in more volunteers if you want to send her a PM.
  5. obaona Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 18, 2002
    star 4
    Trust me, it will give you a whole new perspective on all the hard work (and bravery ;) ) of Amidala_Skywalker. ;) And, of course, Amsie's friends also helped her out, as you yourself plan to do with your friend. Unfortunately I couldn't help out due to Darth Real Life, but they (Hannah, Su, and others) really did put a whole lot of effort into the awards. :)
  6. Kitt327 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 23, 2000
    star 4
    To the various people who have offered to help out with the summer awards, I'm a little concerned about the reasons you have chosen to do this. Considering your public criticism on an off-site message board of this community, its administration, its members, and the accusations of vote-fixing in these awards just been, do you really have the well-being of this community in mind, or is this just a personal vendetta? I ask for two reasons:

    1) I'm concerned that dissatisfication with these awards, and the running of the upcoming summer awards, is being discussed publicly off site, instead of here. I hope to bring the discussion back here by asking this.

    2) I really like this fanfic community. I think each and every member, young or old, deserves fair representation from people chosen to organize community activities like awards.

    I'm not saying you shouldn't be doing it - I want to get your thoughts on my concerns before jumping to any conclusions. If you can reassure me, and other community members who are aware of your off-site comments and have similar concerns, that you have our best interests in mind, then I say good luck and go for it.
  7. Kit' Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 1999
    star 5
    I've been thinking about this the last couple of days and finally managed to talk to Am about it too. Here's what I think.

    Just to let people know. I've also been volunteering to run the awards for quite some time now (actually I volunteered to run the last awards but Am beat me too it).

    I'm not going to go all moddy and demand that I do it or anything, I think some people have some strange ideas about moderators and the illusionary power that they wield. However, I think that with several people volunteering that it might be good to have a round-house discussion about awards in general and who should be given the opportunity of running such a humungous event.

    Also, no offense to Mely, but I was always under the impression that running the awards once meant that you didn't do it again - but gave that opportunity to someone else.

    Apologies for sounding blunt or being slightly confusing. I've just finished a 13 hour continuous stock take - it's made me tired but its also given me a lot of time to think.

    Kithera

    Edits 1 + 2: More information, spelling errors and clarification.
  8. Amidala_Skywalker Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 4, 2001
    star 5
    I agree with Kit on this issue. I was overzealous when I gave Melyanna permission to host the awards, as I should have discussed this with my colleague before any decisions were made (that?s the normal policy). I was short on time the other day - I was just dashing out the door - and that created the stray error.

    In light of several people voicing their interest in helping ? or hosting ? the awards, I agree that the community, as a whole, should sit down and discuss it here at JC :).

    Am [face_love]
  9. Aunecah_Skywalker Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 25, 2002
    star 5
    Kitt327 Well, I've never discussed the fanfic awards off site, and I love the TFN, so I don't know if you're referring to me when you made that comment.

    I, for myself, wanted to run the Awards program because I love doing it.

    I think that says it all.

    EDIT: Username.

    Aunecah
  10. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    I think you guys should be thanking Mel for agreeing to take over the awards instead of questioning her reasons. It is a large, thankless job--and obaona, considering Mel has done this before and gotten untold amounts of unnecessary harassment for doing it, I don't think she needs to do it again just to gain an appreciation of what Ams went through.

    The way Mel did the awards last time was very fair. She asked for volunteers from across the boards to help count the votes--even pulling in some people who are not involved in fan fiction in order to make sure the contest was completely objective. However, she still was harassed, even threatened. I don't know why she agreed to do it, but I offered to help so that she wouldn't have to put up with the flack by herself.

    Kitt: Some of us do not feel comfortable discussing our distaste for certain events during the awards on-site considering what has happened to us here before when we have spoken out.

    Now, if any of you would like to do the awards instead of Mel, I'm sure she would be thankful to be relieved of the burden. Otherwise, I think you guys are just proving exactly why this is a thankless job, and I think all of you owe her an apology.

    To the various people who have offered to help out with the summer awards, I'm a little concerned about the reasons you have chosen to do this. Considering your public criticism on an off-site message board of this community, its administration, its members, and the accusations of vote-fixing in these awards just been, do you really have the well-being of this community in mind, or is this just a personal vendetta?

    Personal vendetta? Over what? I wasn't even nominated, nor did I expect to be, considering how borderline and how much controversy my longest fanfic here has caused.

    I'm insulted that you would accuse me of having backhanded reasons. [face_plain]

    And if you want to know why I vent off-site, it's because I am not free to do so here, and that has been proven. In fact, I won't be surprised if I get a warning for posting this. [face_plain]
  11. Darth_Tim Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 2002
    star 4
    All I know is that Mel has done it before, did a good job despite, among other things, catching hell from some people. She knows what to expect.

    -Tim
  12. CYNICAL21 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2001
    star 4
    AHEM: Just a note, for the sake of clarity. It's not the Academy Awards, People, or the Nobel or the Pulitzer, etc., etc. It's a fan fic award, and, as I said somewhere else, it's a lovely ego-boost (which every writer appreciates) but it won't get you a mocha latté at Starbucks unless you also have a fistful of dollars to go with it. Nor will it bring you a contract with Random House.

    It should be all in good fun.

    And it should NOT be about competition; true artists should struggle to support each other; not to one-up each other. This has gotten so far out of hand that those who won in the various competitions are beginning to wonder if the awards had any meaning at all - although I am certainly proof that it was NOT merely a popularity contest - as I'm way too outspoken and confrontational to be popular in a conventional sense.

    And this silly backbiting, sniping, and 'he-said-she-said' simply demonstrates the potential for offense that is inherent in such an exercise, to the degree that I think when the time comes - no matter who runs the awards (a thankless task, at best) my response is going to be, "Thanks, but no, thanks. I respectfully decline to participate."

    CYN
  13. Sock_of_Darth_Vader Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 24, 2002
    star 4
    What CYN said. Maybe we shouldn't have any awards whatsoever. Not that I'm saying Ams and Mel did a bad job before, they did great, but it's such a massive and thankless task. I wouldn't do it for the script of Ep III!
  14. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
  15. Darth_Tim Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 2002
    star 4
    1) I'm concerned that dissatisfication with these awards, and the running of the upcoming summer awards, is being discussed publicly off site, instead of here. I hope to bring the discussion back here by asking this. >>

    Kitt: Well, I can only speak for myself here. Having won the only award I was nominated for, I don't think I have a bone to pick about that. Yes, I was dissappointed a couple authors didn't win, but 1) that's just my opinion and 2) I'm not blaming those who ran the awards for that, nor accusing anyone of fixing things.

    However, this notion of a Big Brother mentality is unsettling - "anything you say offsite can and will be used against you"...well, sometimes I just feel like venting and if I'm a bit hot and bothered at the time, well... sorry. Sincerely. Sorry. But I refuse to go through everything I say with a microfilter offsite.

    <<2) I really like this fanfic community. I think each and every member, young or old, deserves fair representation from people chosen to organize community activities like awards. >>

    I like this place too. I've met some great people here of all ages and interests myself. I agree, the awards should have a pluralist feel, but I'm not sure what you mean exactly or how you think such a policy should be implemented. (Not being sarcastic...I'm serious here, and interested in hearing)

    From my observation, there's always a backlash both before and after the Awards, and then things return to normal before the next ceremony is looming.

    -Tim
  16. Melyanna Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 2001
    star 4
    oba: Yes, I know exactly what it takes to run the awards, having done so last summer. I did everything but actually host the awards, since my grandfather was having surgery and there was some question of whether or not I was going to be in town at the time. I got Pallas-Athena to take over for me, because I didn't want things to be delayed on my account.

    Kitt: Yes, I've said some things offsite that probably weren't in the best of taste, and if I've offended anyone, let me apologize now. The site you're referring to is one I use for venting a lot about things that happen here, because I don't feel like I have the freedom to do so here. It's not necessarily things that need to be changed, because I'm more than willing to bring those up here, just things that annoy me.

    About personal vendettas... no, this is not. I was asked more than once if I would be willing to do the summer awards. I guess people thought I did a good job, so they asked me if I would be willing to do it again. That, combined with the apologies I got for the way I was treated last summer following the awards, convinced me that it would be okay for me to volunteer to do it again.

    This has nothing to do with me winning, or my popularity. I won several awards last summer, and you know what? It didn't do a thing for my writing. Sure, it would have been nice to see one of my stories up there this time, but it's more of a learning experience if I see someone else's. I have such an incredibly long reading list right now because of this. ;)

    I really like this fanfic community. I think each and every member, young or old, deserves fair representation from people chosen to organize community activities like awards.

    Absolutely. Last summer when I ran the awards, I pulled in all kinds of people to do the vote counting - even a few who aren't fan fic regulars. I wanted it to be as fair as possible and completely above the board. I'm definitely willing to have anyone who has time to spare helping out - though if I get too many more volunteers, there won't be enough work to do to keep everyone occupied! :p

    Kit:

    I'm not going to go all moddy and demand that I do it or anything, I think some people have some strange ideas about moderators and the illusionary power that they wield. However, I think that with several people volunteering that it might be good to have a round-house discussion about awards in general and who should be given the opportunity of running such a humungous event.

    I think the mod comment came from me in a PM to Am - that wasn't a strange idea I had. Last summer I had Mar17swgirl helping me out quite a bit, and one of the comments made by several other community members was that moderators really shouldn't be hosting the awards. It has nothing to do with "illusionary power," as you put it, but rather that anything posted by a mod is always taken more seriously, and that's the last thing these awards should be - serious. When it gets too serious, it stops being fun, which is what the awards are about - unless I'm just grossly mistaken.

    There's also the issue of time - does an active moderator have the time to commit to this? I'm sure you've thought this through, but I wanted to state that as one of my concerns about a moderator running the awards.

    No, I didn't mean to do the awards again, for various reasons. I was asked to take it again by some very respectable members of this board, and I thought it would be a good way of taking some people who haven't been involved in the awards before and showing them exactly what's involved behind the scenes. I really think that for the summer awards, when things tend to be busier for everyone, someone who's done it before is a better choice.

    Last summer I didn't have a clue what I was getting into - fortunately, I had Padawan Di-Lee, who'd helped out with the previous awards, giving me invaluable help and advice on the matter. I'm willing to "train" a new host, but I really think that new people should have some idea of
  17. Aunecah_Skywalker Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 25, 2002
    star 5
    Okay, I'm going to follow up on Mel's post with the same "no intent of flaming" warning. :)

    1)Time issues were my biggest problems with the late 2002 awards. When I envision awards, I usually think about a time that is around a month or two. A lot of stories start in six months, and it's not really fair for all those stories started and completed in the time between nominations and the actual awards. When the next award section starts, that time episode has its own stories, and generally speaking, WIP are more likely to get nominated than stories completed some four months ago and now skittering on page 20. Then again, I think Am did a great job - but I still thought that the Awards shouldn't have taken that long.

    2) The number of categories has also baffled me for a long time. I always thought that Awards were meant to formally congratulate the best, and when you have some three dozen different categories, that kind of destroys the whole purpose of the Awards in the first place.

    3) Seriousness of the Awards - this getting a little too ridiculous. For heaven's sake, these are just internet fanfic awards. Yes, you get a lot of personal satisfaction having won something, but that's no reason to escalate the whole thing into Oscar Awards series.

    On the other hand, if people really want proof that no votes were miscounted, then maybe whoever runs the Awards should simply create a general account that they'll use for the Awards only and then reveal its password once the Awards are done. But that only fosters lack of trust and bad feelings between each other. Trust me, I know how angered you can get when you take up a project like the Awards and people don't even trust you. Even worse is when people think that you have ulterior motives for doing something as big and fun as the Awards.

    4) Offsite remarks - Yes, even though I love JCF, I don't love everything about it. I still dislike Mara, and since I can't seem to vent my emotions here, I go and do it another site. That doesn't mean that I'm not fit to be here simply because I dislike Mara and say offsite that I wish JCF allowed for it.

    Conclusion - I didn't mean to flame anyone. If I did, then I apologize profusely. Please PM me with what you thought was a flaming prose, and I'll see into editing it. :)

    Aunecah
  18. Herman Snerd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 1999
    star 6
    I was overzealous when I gave Melyanna permission to host the awards, as I should have discussed this with my colleague before any decisions were made (that?s the normal policy).


    Since when is it the business of mods to give permission?

    If this is a case of several people having volunteered to run the next awards and Mel was mistakenly told that nobody else had volunteered, then I can see a legitimate reason to re-think who is going to coordinate the summer awards.


    But, as has been hinted, if this is a case of Mel being told she can't run the next awards because what may have been said off-site, then that's completely bogus.


    The job of the mods (as it pertains to the award threads) is to first make sure that we don't return to the state when there were weekly/monthly awards threads and secondly to ensure that two or three people aren't working on the same idea at the same time.

    This notion of picking and choosing who gets to do what is a bit unsettling.


    I see way too many threads (both here and around the JC) where the person who starts the thread begins with an announcement of "mod permission" to create that thread.

    I can understand checking with somebody who is supposed to know what's going on to find out if an idea has already been done or is being done by somebody else. However, if people are under the mistaken impression that they need mod sanctioning before they can post a new idea, then the future of these forums doesn't look too bright.
  19. inez_the_swampgirl Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 14, 2002
    star 4
    Well, this certainly took all the fun of my award away from me.

    I was under the impression this was all for fun. I was under the impression that the awards MCs did this as a service to the JC community in a spirit of fun and comraderie. I was under the impression that we all understood fanfiction is a way of expressing ourselves and entertaining our peers. I guess I was wrong.

    I'm about to seriously tick some people off here, but I feel I must be blunt. I was thrilled to learn I was nominated, then won something. I don't feel my award was a result of some kind of cyber nepo-tism. I hope it wasn't anyway. I write fanfiction because I want to. Before the awards came, I could care less if I got recognition for it. I just wanted to do something fun. I thought the process was indeed fair and I congratulate Am for doing it. All this argument about 'back-biting' and 'un-fairness' is plain and simple... IT'S PETTY!

    Fanfiction is fun. Fanfiction is entertaining. Fanfiction is a way to show off our creativity.

    I've met some great people on the boards, some I'm beginning to consider friends. But when all is said and done, I really don't know any of you. I don't need a ficticious award from virtual strangers to make myself feel better. It was a great ego-boost, sure, but if it means that much to some of you, take mine.

    I was happy with my award till I read what was posted here today. It's not fun anymore.

    inez

    p.s. I think this will be my last post in this thread. There's no point in me keeping up with it anymore. I have better things to do.
  20. Rhune Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 23, 2003
    You need a capable volunteer to host the Awards. An excellent volunteer agreed. And as far as not wanting someone who has already run the Awards to do it again, Kit, personally, I think the Fanfic Forum would benefit from having someone experienced host it. Amidala_Skywalker, I'm sure you AND Mel both, having both run the awards before, learned a lot slaving away. In a nutshell, not allowing someone to host them a second time seems counterproductive and redundant to making this a better forum. I see nothing stopping you guys from working together either, as another alternative.

    As Cyn said, as A.G. said, these awards are a lot of thankless drudgery and they are not the Academy Awards.

    I was overzealous when I gave Melyanna permission to host the awards, as I should have discussed this with my colleague before any decisions were made (that?s the normal policy).

    No offense Amidala Skywalker, but this is not a major Real Life event. Colleagues? Permission? This is a fanfic board. It's supposed to be fun!

    Edit: Read Melyanna's post and agree with it in its entirety.
  21. Darth_Tim Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 2002
    star 4
    Disclaimer: none of the below is meant to be taken personally...just my honest (and entirely ignorable, if anyone wishes) opinion:

    I agree, Aun. I felt like (regarding Mel's excerpt comment) that a lot of WIP authors got the short end of the stick for following the rules and sending in their stuff on time, when several months it was announced that excerpts were still an issue. It seemed unfair to those who had scrambled to send things in promptly. I just wish there had been more clear (and clearly enforced) deadlines. WE waited several months and then when the original time and date were announced, there was two day's notice. Then they were changed, again with litte notice, until only a week later. Then, they were pushed back an hour, again, with little warning, and on US Central time, it was already 9 PM.

    Also, for those in college, it was around exam/end of semester time when the awards were held.

    I know RL can be unpredictable, believe me, I do. But I wish we had had more warning.

    -Tim
  22. Aunecah_Skywalker Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 25, 2002
    star 5
    Yes, I completely agree with people hosting once should be able to host the awards again. The only exception comes in, like in my case, when I'm just dying to do the awards but can't because I was under the impression that Am was going to handle it from now on - and hence didn't PM her about my interest.

    I also agree with Herman about the Awards' control being out of the Mods' hands. Now that I think about it - they're here only to make sure, like Herman said, that we don't have twenty different people doing the same thing. So telling the mods that you're going to do the Awards is a good idea, because then we can cut down on a lot of bad feelings and nasty situations, but otherwise, Mods should not be even involved in the Awards - well, maybe, except for the sock issues.

    Another thing that I just realized is that the entertainment was rather annoying. The Awards started somewhere at night and since I had a test the next morning, I couldn't stay up all night. I did NOT appreciate having to go through some three or four pages before finding the actual posts. I still think entertainment is necessary - but it was overdone in the last awards show.

    Conclusion - refer to my previous post. No intent of flaming anyone. :)

    Aunecah
  23. CYNICAL21 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2001
    star 4
    I can understand checking with somebody who is supposed to know what's going on to find out if an idea has already been done or is being done by somebody else. However, if people are under the mistaken impression that they need mod sanctioning before they can post a new idea, then the future of these forums doesn't look too bright.

    Yee-ha! Somebody, please, give that man a cigar!

    As I mentioned to someone else earlier today, is it 1984 all over again around here?

    Recently, on another site (and no, not the one that's been mentioned here a couple of times today) I said something about debating removing my work from tf.n, because I just wasn't sure that my overall philosophy fit in here - and was stunned when someone else remarked that they couldn't imagine why I even wanted to post here, because it was such a young site; at the time, I thought maybe that was a bit extreme - but I'm beginning to wonder. The words, "tempest in a teapot" spring to mind all too easily.

    For the rest - Ditto what Mely, Rhune, Tim and Aunecah said.
  24. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    Just a quickie post here...

    inez: I certainly think you should still be proud of your award and not worry about what's gone on here.

    As it is, applause to the most recent posters. No, this is not the Academy Awards. It is not meant to be taken so seriously that it turns into personality conflicts and back-biting. I am eternally grateful to the moderator who shut down this discussion on the other site in question, because it was getting absolutely ridiculous and I was tired of having to defend myself, as I'm sure everyone else was.

    Mel: I have nothing against Ams either as far as this went, but you made some good points. If you're still up to doing the Awards, my offer of help is still there. I just hope they can be taken for what they are--fun.
  25. DarthBreezy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 6
    BRAVO Herman!!

    I can't begin to tell you how much that post in question mortified me... :mad:

    I have publicly and privetly disagreed with Mel on MANY issues and occasions, but the suggestion that her motives for taking up the reins for the awards were nefarious was down right OFFENSIVE.
    And I also agree with what has been said before... It's NOT a 'Mod' decision... it's NOT the acadamy awards (which IMHO are just as useless).. it's for and by fans here at TFN... recognition is nice but it should NOT be treated as the end all do all of fan fiction...

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