The late-2002/early-2003 Fanfiction Awards Ceremony --- Discussion in progress.

Discussion in 'Fan Fiction and Writing Resource' started by Amidala_Skywalker, May 2, 2003.

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  1. DarthBreezy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 6
    BRAVO Herman!!

    I can't begin to tell you how much that post in question mortified me... :mad:

    I have publicly and privetly disagreed with Mel on MANY issues and occasions, but the suggestion that her motives for taking up the reins for the awards were nefarious was down right OFFENSIVE.
    And I also agree with what has been said before... It's NOT a 'Mod' decision... it's NOT the acadamy awards (which IMHO are just as useless).. it's for and by fans here at TFN... recognition is nice but it should NOT be treated as the end all do all of fan fiction...

  2. jedi-ES Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 4
    I have been relatively quiet around the Fanfic awards, even though I was nominated for a half a dozen categories, but I feel it necessary for me to give my two cents. But before I do, I want to thank everyone involved, including Ams for a job well done. I also want to give my nods to all the nominated and the winners and all who voted. :)

    With that said, I agree with a lot of the issues brought up in regards to the Winter Fanfic Awards - summarized below:

    1. The purpose of the awards - Just like many have already said, these should not be taken too seriously or held at par with a "real" award. The purpose of these awards is to have fun and recognize good authors and well-written stories. Good works should be given their due, and the awards fulfill this.

    2. Time frame for the Awards - Having a "Winter" fanfic awards given out in Spring is almost ridiculous. I agree with one who said that it shouldn't have taken longer than a month for it to be completed - from beginning to end. If the job is too big for one person, than others should help.

    3. Giving of excerpts - I can only go by my personal experience, but as soon as I knew that I had to find and give to Ams 5 excerpts and had to write a vignette specifically for one category, I asked when they were due and was told one week. I got to work and turned all of it in within that week. Then I hear months later that excerpts are still being waited for - while in the meantime, I have written many pages and I feel my writing has only gotten better and could have provided better excerpts. I just think that if you make a deadline for everyone, than it should be kept to, no excuses.

    4. Disorganization - It just seemed to me that the whole process from the beginning to the end seemed disorganized and sort of "everywhere". Deadlines, time frames, etc. all seemed to be continually changing and readjusting and it made it difficult to understand exactly what was going on. Once again, maybe this could have been helped if more people were involved?

    5. Lastly, and this is more trivial than the other points, is the thought of a 6 hour Awards show. Personally, I just wanted to know how I did and to try to stay awake on the East Coast till 4am to see all the awards being given out was just too much.

    Anyway, those are my thoughts and were meant to be taken constructively and is not meant to flame anyone or anything. :)
  3. MyDebateSock Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    First of all, I'm glad these things can be discussed. It can only make it better, right? :)

    I must say the talk off the boards has been bothering me.

    People say they have the right to vent some place they feel comfortable.

    Absolutely.

    But venting does not mean flaming a person. Some of the things written off site are definitely beyond venting. Please, a little courtesy. And be prepared to take responsibility for what you say, where ever you say it.

    That doesn't mean that I'm not fit to be here simply because I dislike Mara and say offsite that I wish JCF allowed for it.

    I honestly hope no one said that you can't be here. That's just wrong of them.

    Some of us do not feel comfortable discussing our distaste for certain events during the awards on-site considering what has happened to us here before when we have spoken out.

    I'm sorry, I don't know what events you are referring to, but I think it's always better to try and talk it out with the people in question.

    MySock
  4. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    I'm sorry, I don't know what events you are referring to, but I think it's always better to try and talk it out with the people in question.

    It's kind of difficult when one of the "people in question" is currently hiding behind a sock. [face_plain]

    I honestly hope no one said that you can't be here. That's just wrong of them.

    Even if no one flat-out said that certain more outspoken posters can't be here, that is the impression that we've gotten--that we, and our opinions, are not welcome here. We get attacked for speaking out, then when we try to defend ourselves against those attacks, we get accused of "flaming" the attackers, who happen to belong to a more elite group.

    I was told elsewhere that I shouldn't be giving myself a headache over this because the politics are never going to change. I should really listen to that person, because I know I'm wasting my time right now.

    I'm sorry, I don't know what events you are referring to, but I think it's always better to try and talk it out with the people in question.

    In my case, the "person in question" accuses me of flaming her every time I disagree with her, and I got pretty tired of it, especially after I got banned for sticking up for myself after she talked to me like a three-year-old. (You want specifics? PM me--and use your real name.)

    Another prime example involving this same poster: she told a friend of mine to "Go **** someone, get AIDS, and die" in a chat. I mentioned this in a thread here at the JC, and got a warning for bringing up off-site activities. Yet what you, and a couple of other posters, have insinuated here is that what I say off-site should be taken into consideration here. Kind of a double standard, don't you think? If what I say off-site is taken into consideration here, then certainly I should not have gotten a warning for bringing up what she said off-site.
  5. Dantana Skywalker Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2002
    star 5
    I wasn't going to come back to this thread, after I lost in everything I was nominated for (I believe there was even one category where EVERYONE NOMINATED EXCEPT ME won). I was angry, and hurt. I felt as though I had been excluded and shunned.

    The reason I felt this way is because, being a Kyp/Jaina 'shipper, I get huge amounts of flack. People, especially J/Jers, read my stories and then go, "It was good, for a K/J" or "I liked it, too bad it's K/J".

    I don't think you people realise how much that hurts. I don't barge into J/J threads, read the story, and then say, "That was good, too bad's it's got Jag in it." I don't do that. I may have in the past, but in those cases, it was an honest mistake because I try not to do things like that. I know how sensitive an author's writing is to them.

    I love writing. I really do. But I hate it when people discriminate against me because I happen to prefer Kyp Durron over Jagged Fel. I'm shunned as a freak because of it, even though, IMHO, Jag is the interloper because Stackpole just inserted this oh-so-perfect robotic pilot into the universe and everyone instantly bows down to him. My favourite character has been shoved into the background, and granted, I'm annoyed about that.

    But when I found I'd been nominated in the fanfic awards, I was thrilled. I thought, "Wow, these people are finally able to look past the K/J pairing in my stories and are finally accepting me." I felt I had been finally recognised as one of your equals.

    But then I lost every single one of my nominations, after months and months of waiting. I didn't even place in ANYTHING. And not only that, Jade_Max, who was nominated for "Not Strong Enough To Say No", placed third, and it felt like a minour technicality because she's not K/J, even though her story was.

    I have felt, in the aftermath of these awards, that I didn't win because of my standing on the K/J/J issue. That people ignored the quality of my work and voted against me simply because I'm for Kyp.

    Now, this may not be true. But it sure feels that way. I know it's just a silly thing, but it's still peer interaction, and it still represents a semi-physically indicator of acceptance or rejection.

    Authors who post their stories here want readers. They want people to like them, because when they post their work here, they're opening themselves up to criticism. They're making themselves vulnerable. I know I am every time I put up a post. I wait anxiously every time I post an update because I want you guys to like it. I want to know that I've reached my target audience, because one day, I hope to be a published author. I am also going into film school to be a screenwriter and a director. this, too, is vulnerable. I want to know that I can affect my readers, because if I can't, what kind of a writer or director would that make me? Not very successful, and probably ridiculed.

    I want you people to think before you go around labelling and criticising. Take into account how you could be affecting the author's emotions and self-esteem. They may say they don't care, but 98% of the time, they're lying to protect themselves.

    And don't reject an author simply because of their standing on an issue. They're human beings, with feelings and thoughts and a mind of their own. They're entitled to their own opinion and belief system. If you try to force your opinion on them, you're in the wrong.

    This goes for the awards, too. Pick someone who is qualified and willing to do the job, not just because they're a K/Jer or a J/Jer, or an L/Mer, or whatever. Do it because they're the best person for the job.

    And with voting, adopt the same attitude. DOn't vote for or against an author because of their standpoint, vote because their work is quality. Don't exclude someone because they offered a different viewpoint.

    Am, you did the best you could with the time that was given to you. It's not easy to run this kind of thing by yourself. I salute you.

    My only suggestion for the next award would be, with the voting, make a voting booth/poll type th
  6. Aunecah_Skywalker Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 25, 2002
    star 5
    I honestly hope no one said that you can't be here. That's just wrong of them.

    Flat out else where and hinted at and skirted around in here until everybody got tired of it and said thread was locked. [face_plain] (You know who you are, and if you don't, then I'm not referring to you. ;))

    Aunecah
  7. Amidala_Skywalker Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 4, 2001
    star 5
    (Addressing Mel?s points)

    - I have apologised several times for the awards being delayed. There were things popping out of nowhere in my life, and I didn?t want to put my burdens onto someone else. I think we?ve all agreed that the awards should take only a month or two in the future.

    - Yes, they were busy, as I found myself counting votes on Christmas Day. However, I think we need to find a neutral time of the year where everyone at least has some time. A poll could be set-up with the title, ?When in the year would you like to see the awards??

    - I believe I mentioned that my social group was going to lend in a hand. At that moment, I didn?t know which exact ones would be volunteering. In the future, award hosts can list those aiding them in counting. If anyone would like the MS Word file which contains the vote so they may count it themselves, contact me and I?ll gladly send it to your email address.

    - I agree that there were too many categories. I definitely didn?t think the ceremony would last for six hours. However, all the categories were held for debate in the ?Awards Committee? thread, where it was decided we should include a completely category. You could call this a trial run with those categories. Now we know what they?re like, we can eliminate the ones not necessary.

    3) Seriousness of the Awards - this getting a little too ridiculous. For heaven's sake, these are just internet fanfic awards. Yes, you get a lot of personal satisfaction having won something, but that's no reason to escalate the whole thing into Oscar Awards series.

    Before I started the awards, I had heard that people wanted it to be professional. I don?t think it was so serious that you couldn?t breathe and disturb the process. From the ceremony, I received some feedback from posters I?ve barely talked to saying that was fun and loose.

    If this is a case of several people having volunteered to run the next awards and Mel was mistakenly told that nobody else had volunteered, then I can see a legitimate reason to re-think who is going to coordinate the summer awards.

    That is what happened. We?re not taking any off-site comments into account. When I first volunteered for the awards, I asked permission from JG. That seemed to be the process you undertook to become the awards host.

    I?ve come to a point where the entire awards experience wasn?t fun for me. I thought the ceremony went over well, and then I heard some recent comments directed toward me. I?m not going to make this personal, but I have been distressed by a few things in recent days. As many people have said, it is honestly a thankless job in the end.

    I wish I could give more of a response, but I must be off.

    Am [face_love]


    EDIT: Clarification.
  8. Jaina_Fel_06 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2002
    star 4
    Although I've said it before, I'll say it again-- Thanks, Am, for a great ceremony. I had a lot of fun, and you did a great job! :)
  9. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    Ams: As far as the awards taking such a long time--crap happens, and I'm not saying you could necessarily help it. Yes, it is a thankless job, and I know how much flack Melyanna got when she did it last summer ("flack" being an understatement), in spite of the fact that she did it as fairly as possible. That being said, I thought that you did well, especially with Real Life issues going down at the same time. I saw people receiving awards from across the boards in fanfic, some great authors from all different spectrums--and stepping out on a limb here, I actually liked the different categories because it gave more people a chance to be recognized across different genres of writing.

    RE: the ceremony itself taking a long time--that wouldn't have necessarily happened had there not been so much domination by members of your social group--if we could have just done the awards, had congratulations, and let that be it. Yes, I'll admit I was there drinking wine with Tim, but I could probably count the number of posts on my fingers that were taken up by that, and they were short posts to boot. The rest of it was dominated by the handmaidens and a few inside jokes. Not saying that was your fault, but hopefully you can see why that wasn't exactly fair to the general fanfic population.

    I believe I mentioned that my social group was going to lend in a hand.

    Stepping out on a limb here with what is going to be my one real criticism with the way you ran things--this wasn't exactly fair, and even assuming that the votes were fairly counted (which I'll go ahead and assume they were), this, and the domination of the Awards Ceremony by your social group, made the whole thing look very clique-ish to those of us "outsiders"--especially those of us who have been at the butt end of personal vendettas by at least one of the handmaidens.

    I mentioned this earlier--last year Melyanna asked for volunteers from all over the boards, including people not involved in fanfic, to help her count the votes. There are a group of us who hang out together, too--but she didn't ask us to help her count the votes. She wanted to make sure that the perception of the whole process was that it was a fair and square job.

    So anyway--I'll be happy to discuss this with you on IM later if you want. Overall, I thought you did a good job, and I don't really think the things about the awards that left a sour taste in my mouth were necessarily your fault. However, I hope you can understand why some of us feel the way we do about what happened.
  10. DarthBreezy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 6
  11. Kit' Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 1999
    star 5
    Melyanna - has nothing to do with "illusionary power," as you put it, but rather that anything posted by a mod is always taken more seriously, and that's the last thing these awards should be - serious.

    I wasn't acutally refering to to anything particular when I said "illusionary power" - except that often I get the feeling that somehow when someone becomes a mod everyone starts treating them differently. I honestly don't think I've changed since becomming a mod and if people think I have then I'd be more then happy to listen to them.

    As for being more serious. Like Am said, people asked for them to be more professional - to me at least that means more serious in some regards.

    As for mods been seen as being serious all the time and that making the awards seem all serious, then honestly you might be right. I'd personally disagree, with that idea and the idea that mods can't run things for whatever reason as I always thought we were still able to participate fully in the community. However, if people agree with what you said then I'll acknowledge the sentiment and step back.

    Herman If this is a case of several people having volunteered to run the next awards and Mel was mistakenly told that nobody else had volunteered, then I can see a legitimate reason to re-think who is going to coordinate the summer awards.

    Yes, you basically just hit it on the head. That's how I see it. Not as a case of permission, but as a case of letting other people show their interest too before one person took it.

    But, as has been hinted, if this is a case of Mel being told she can't run the next awards because what may have been said off-site, then that's completely bogus.

    I'd like to see where I hinted that. Or even, for that matter, brought off-site stuff up.

    I see way too many threads (both here and around the JC) where the person who starts the thread begins with an announcement of "mod permission" to create that thread.

    I get a lot of "Can I post this" PM's. I don't mind them, although the first lot surprised the hell out of me. I guess it is because people feel it might be redundant. Honestly though, unless its going to violate the TOS or be redundant then I have no issue with it. I don't think I've denied permission to anyone yet. Usually I'm surprised they asked first and tell them to go for it.

    Rhune - You need a capable volunteer to host the Awards. An excellent volunteer agreed. And as far as not wanting someone who has already run the Awards to do it again, Kit, personally, I think the Fanfic Forum would benefit from having someone experienced host it.

    You are right. You probably need someone with excellant organisational skills - someone who knows how to make things run just right. However, there are plenty of people like that out there. Am and Mely are definitely two of them, but it should NEVER stop other people from posting that they would like to run the awards.

    Cynical [/i]As I mentioned to someone else earlier today, is it 1984 all over again around here? [/i]

    Like to point out where? It being like 1984 would be the last thing I'd want. There are rules though and sometimes people get caught on the wrong end of those. Enforcing these rules is our "job".

    ****

    I wasn't going to be "giving permission" and I'm sorry if it came across like that. I was genuinely surprised that Melyanna wanted to do it again - firstly because of the flack she recieved last time and secondly because I had always assumed that it was a "done once and then run away screaming" thing. That's the thing, I've always been under the impression that "done once and never again" was the thing for awards - it may have been the wrong impression to be under but that's honestly what I thought.

    I also expressed my interest long before I became a mod, but I haven't expressed it since because I thought there was going to be some time for everything to settle down before the next one started.

    To recap what people want/don't
  12. Melyanna Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 2001
    star 4
    First of all, I went to Am about hosting the awards because she was the last host. Purely out of courtesy, I asked her if I could take over the next one. The FAQ says nothing about asking the mods for permission to run the big awards - what requires moderator approval is creating a new kind of awards show. As far as I know, the summer awards show isn't a new thing.

    I wasn't given any indication that anyone else wanted to host. Yes, I think that others should be given the opportunity to host, but I also think that they should have some experience in dealing with it first. I'm not saying I want to run the awards permanently - at this point I want to be able to show someone else how to run the awards. Is there really something wrong with that?

    Am, at this point, I'm extremely annoyed about the backpedaling because I've already started working on things for the summer awards. When we talked about this, I told you that I wanted to get started on it soon, and I did. I feel it's not very considerate for me to be forced to back out of it at this point, because I've already put a lot of effort into it. If I'd been told that someone had already volunteered, then I would have let it drop. As it is, I feel like I'm being played a practical joke, because I told you that I was going to get started on it. I'm really not amused. [face_plain]

    Mel
  13. Kit' Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 1999
    star 5
    I also think that they should have some experience in dealing with it first. I'm not saying I want to run the awards permanently - at this point I want to be able to show someone else how to run the awards. Is there really something wrong with that?

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to show someone the ropes. However, I don't think people should be stopped from volunteering simply because they haven't done it before. That would seem odd to me, as I believe everyone should be allowed to participate.

    As for the backpedalling. That's my fault more then Ams. I'm the one who had an issue with it and more over - I'm the one who asked her to put a temporary stop to it because I thought other people (myself included) should also be given the opportunity to volunteer. I honestly thought that the new host would be discussed in a thread and everyone would be given an opportunity to volunteer.
  14. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    Good post, Mel. :)

    Kit':

    To me these kinds of awards ARE popularity contests in some way. These aren't fics picked by an team of judges, they are a group of people voting for each other. It means that certain types groups of writer are going to be missed and that some people will win when others think that they someone else should have. I think these awards should be fun too. I don't honestly know why people view them as being so prestigious or competitive.

    There are always going to be people who think that so-and-so should not have gotten such-and-such an award. It's certainly that way at the Oscars (I, for one, thought Julia Roberts getting that Best Actress Oscar over Cate Blanchett was the biggest farce ever). However, that doesn't mean that the awards should be condoned as "popularity contests". Those who nominate and vote for fics should be expected to do so based on the quality of writing, not because they are friends with the author. If we can't do that here, then there is no point in having Awards.
  15. DarthBreezy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 6
    Now I'm just ill...

    Mel has been played as the bad guy here which I find absolutley disscusting. As I said, Mel and I have disagreed on a LOT of points but in this instance I feel like she's being scape goated... With the revelation that Mel had been told to "go ahead and get started' and now is basicly being accused of trying to 'Take over the awards'...

    *sickening*

    It also seems that whoever runs the awards should be someone without a large vocal group of friends as that seems to be the main issue time and time again when the awards spring up (it certainly has here).

    There's a differance between having a group of 'vocal friends' and a self admited 'clique'... Especially when the clique now seems to dominate the entirety of the fan fiction/writers resourse forum.

    I'm goign to openly state what has been said on the quiet for quite a while. The whole "Handmaiden" thing has gone too far. The fact that the Moderators of this forum are both members (one is the leader yet!) makes for a decidedly "One of US or the rest" mentality that needs to be ended if the fan fiction forum is to survive intact.

    I'm sorry Ams, but it needed to be said. This has gone far enough, the "Awards Show" just brought it to a head...
  16. Dantana Skywalker Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2002
    star 5
    AG- That's exactly what my huge thing was about. Well, that and stuff about respect.

    Anyway . . .

    Mel- It can be annoying to be inconvenienced. But it happens. All the time, and not just to you. I know the only thing around here I'm in charge of is KAJSU, so this really isn't my place to say this, but . . . Give someone else a chance if they really, really want it. If YOU really,r eally want to do it, that's great! I'm sure you'd do a great job. In the end, you might get the job, so just be patient, 'kay? I know, waiting's tough. But we all have to do it. It's called "playing fair".



    I don't think that things said off-site should eb taken into consideration. Heavens knows I've said a few things about a few issues off-site, but I was just expressing my opinion in a forum where I felt I was free to speak my mind. There have been many, many times around here where I felt I couldn't speak my mind because it wasn't the "appropriate forum".

    Vote-counting should be handled through a non-biased party. My biggest issue this year was that it seemed teh vast majourity of those involved with the production seemed to be J/Jers, and that makes me feel picked on.

    DarthBreezy- I completely agree.

    Just a bit more of my spare change.

    EDIT: Wasn't sure how to spell "DarthBreezy".

    Dana
  17. Kit' Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 1999
    star 5
    A_S: (I, for one, thought Julia Roberts getting that Best Actress Oscar over Cate Blanchett was the biggest farce ever).

    I agree :)

    However, that doesn't mean that the awards should be condoned as "popularity contests". Those who nominate and vote for fics should be expected to do so based on the quality of writing, not because they are friends with the author. If we can't do that here, then there is no point in having Awards.

    You're absolutely right! I certainly don't condone them as a popularity contest. In fact I'd go so far as to say that during my time here the awards have come a long way in establishing themselves as not being so. I suppose it is just a feeling that I possess. I certainly judge a fic by its writing less then its creator - however, I feel that everyone is human and sometimes friendships can overcome other aspects - or at least colour judgement.

    Kithera

    Edit:

    I'm goign to openly state what has been said on the queit for quiet a while. The whole "Handmaiden" thing has gone too far. The fact that the Moderators of this forum are both members (one is the leader yet!) makes for a decidedly "One of US or the rest" mentality that needs to be ended if the fan fiction forum is to survive intact.

    Excuse me!

    Where did you get that idea! I'm not part of Ami's group - nor have I ever been. I don't know how you got that idea at all, or where it came from. I'm part of a different group in these boards and people who actually talk to me will know that. Yes I talk to Am, but I would assume that I do so because she's a fellow fanfic mod. However, I've never actually talked to any of the other people in the handmaidens - at least I've never done so because they are part of Am's group or in knowing who they were. The idea that I'm one of them is patently false - if you had such a huge issue with it - why not bring it up sooner or PM me and tell me your concerns. I could have set the record straight long ago.

    I actually only know the handmaidens by their signatures. I try and be as fair as I can on these boards. Sometimes I don't manage to pull it off, as is the case with Melyanna here.

    I don't think that Melyanna's trying to be scapegoated. Nor do I think she's being made out to be the bad guy - certainly not by me. I'll admit it was probably a mistake to ask Am to stop Mely after she'd started (I didn't actually realise that she had started), but I've not made her out to be the bad guy. Certainly not in the way that you're currently trying to make Ami and her handmaidens out to be the bad guys right now.


  18. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    Good post, Breezy.

    And I just noticed something that I had left out before.

    It also seems that whoever runs the awards should be someone without a large vocal group of friends as that seems to be the main issue time and time again when the awards spring up (it certainly has here).

    And the handmaidens aren't a "large vocal group of friends"? WHAT? :mad:

    I definitely agree with Breezy that the whole thing has gone too far. If the head "handmaiden" weren't a mod, I wouldn't have such a problem with it. However, she is, and because of that, I know I've received one unfair banning due to the complaints of a "handmaiden", when said "handmaiden", who was guilty of talking to me like a three-year-old (essentially telling me to shut up because my opinion didn't matter), was not even warned--and I wonder how many others have received the same treatment.

    This happened about two months ago and I had brushed it off as a "whatever" incident until now...the Awards Ceremony, and its domination by this crowd and their inside jokes, brought everything back to a head.

    Yes, it's getting old...and as I said, if there wasn't at least one mod involved here, I could care less. It's not like I don't have my own crowd that I hang out with, although we don't call ourselves anything in particular. However, when a mod is involved, when people are then unfairly treated and forums are unfairly dominated because of it, enough is enough.
  19. Kit' Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 1999
    star 5
    It also seems that whoever runs the awards should be someone without a large vocal group of friends as that seems to be the main issue time and time again when the awards spring up (it certainly has here).

    And the handmaidens aren't a "large vocal group of friends"? WHAT?


    Actually, that was in response to comments I've heard about these awards. This was my own recommendation for future awards based on what people have said here and other places.

    Kithera
  20. CYNICAL21 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2001
    star 4
    Kit - my remark concerning 1984 was NOT directed at you - but it was apropos of the fact that issues were raised questioning Mely's ability to run the next awards show fairly, because of comments she made on another site. Well, I read those comments - and I never found her to be overly critical or self-serving in any way. She may have expressed some measure of dissatisfaction with the overall process involved here - but it was, in no way, a form of flaming and she was neither snide nor super-critical. And, as a result, her motivations were called into question.

    I think that qualifies as a bit of Big Brotherism; what about you?

    Ideally, should people confront issues head-on, by speaking their piece to the person with whom they have issues? You bet - but there is some history here, on these boards, of a bias - a tendency to look at things from a certain prejudiced perspective - and some people have concluded, based on their experience, that it's a risk to speak up. Though it hasn't happened to me personally, I have seen it happen to others - and I have noted that there are individuals who seem to take it upon themselves to determine what is or is not acceptable on these boards. Now that is the JOB of mods, and I accept the TOS that are in effect - but self-styled censors and arbiters of taste are a bit much for most free thinkers to stomach.

    Having said all that, however, I do suggest that it's really time to put this to bed. There is no way anyone is EVER going to satisfy everyone - and there are always going to be questions and complaints. Authors are going to get their feelings hurt - it's the nature of the artist, I'm afraid - and we all know about the pavings on that road to hell. And the process, by its very nature, is almost impossible to run with complete fairness; for example, I know - beyond all doubt - that there are gifted writers who write NJO stories - but I don't READ NJO fics, because I just don't like them - and I absolutely will NOT vote for something I haven't read. And I'm sure the same applies to every genre - and I don't know how you overcome such problems. IN fact, I don't think you do; all you can do is hope to pull in a broad spectrum of participants who will reflect a true cross-section of the boards.

    As for who should host the next awards - in light of this brouhaha - who in their right mind would want to?

    CYN
  21. Dantana Skywalker Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2002
    star 5
    Here I am, opening my mouth again.

    This is why KAJSU split off. We have a place to have our jokes. Here, it's about Kyp and fanfiction.

    I'm perfectly happy to sit back and let someone run the awards. I don't want to volunteer for anything. I've got enough on my plate, thank you.

    But for the exact reason that I know what goes on in cliques, I don't think someone or several someones who are involved with one should be in any position of authority over an awards show. I don't care if they moderate, I really don't. But even if the biasing is unintentional, it can still occur. We KAJSU'ers tend to be cliquish, and I know I've got about a dozen of them who follow me around and root for me. But I'm not running anything other than KAJSU (and the Heath Ledger Estrogen Brigade, but that's a different story).

    This is just my opinion, and no offense to anyone who may or may not want to run the awards, but maybe, IF we hold them, there should be a panel of people in charge, one representing each group or something, to make things fair.

    I don't know the solution. The problem is, as human beings we are prone to allegiances. To family, school, country, friends. It's natural. It's clan instinct. But here, in a place where so many people interact, we should be able to interact without what could be termed "fear of cheerleaders".

    Dana
  22. DarthBreezy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 6
    Kit...

    Let me clarify.

    There IS a "Kitt" who IS a handmaiden... I got you mixed up and I apologise. To be honest, I was actually surprised at the apparent 'turn about' of additude and should have looked more closely... Thank goodness there's only ONE Darth Breezy.

    One does not CHOOSE to be scapegoated... (that's a mayrter *spelling*)

    The facts are comming to light, that Mel was 'given the go ahead' and started working on the Summer awards... No one knew that until she had stated this. The additude that's being tossed around at her is compleatly unfair.

    The Issue of the handmaidens... Did you see AG's post? There IS evidence of favoratism and Nepotism and it needs to be brought to a halt. NOW.
  23. Dantana Skywalker Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2002
    star 5
    Are my posts being totally ignored?

    I wonder why.

    Dana
  24. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    CYN, one of my favorite people--you are brilliant, even if you do hate Anakin ;) .

    Ideally, should people confront issues head-on, by speaking their piece to the person with whom they have issues? You bet - but there is some history here, on these boards, of a bias - a tendency to look at things from a certain prejudiced perspective - and some people have concluded, based on their experience, that it's a risk to speak up.

    *loud round of applause*

    AMEN, SISTER! :D

    I will be the first to tell you to speak what's on your mind. I don't believe in sugar-coating anything or in beating around the bush. (Funny, I was in an IM chat with a friend the other day and I said, "I know I could stand to have a little more diplomacy--I don't have much." He said, "Read: you have none." :p ) However, it has been proven to me in the past that on these boards, speaking your mind is not welcomed--in fact, defending yourself against an attack will get you banned. So for that reason, I do my venting elsewhere. I'm not going to pretend I like everybody here--in fact, I'll generally let you know it when I don't like you--however, in the interest of having to be careful what I say, something I despise doing, I generally keep my posts elsewhere.

    Dantana: No, your posts aren't being ignored--in fact, I think what you presented is a very fair way to run the awards. I wouldn't be opposed to a panel. Although I am still agreeing to help Mel out if she actually still wants to run it after all this...and I'm getting so disgusted that I wonder if there should be an awards show.
  25. Aanix_Durray Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 29, 2001
    star 4
    I've been watching these debate from the start now and I figure I might as well speak my peace before this gets any more heated.

    1). "Polularity Contests" -

    This board has a social structure, just like any large community does. There's a heirarchy whether you like it or not because there are the factors of authority, seniority, and popularity. I can't think of how many times I've taken a glance at someone's reg. date after reading their post and adjusted my view on their opinion accordingly, no matter how silly that sounds. Or how I take a mods opinions more seriously, the same with members who are the most public (handmaidens included). These obviously aren't things I'm proud of - nor would I condone such an action - it's the opposite entirely, it's something I've become used to over the last year and half that I've been here, because one learns from exposure to attitudes already present.

    That said, I don't think I'm alone in this, so one can't expect that those factors would exist in a void and fail to effect the voting process, or any other public event here, in some manner. It's the same thing with the Academy Awards or the Emmys or the Grammys, you name it, they're all popularity contests. This is made most obvious when people like the aformentioned Julia Roberts and one Gwyneth Paltrow can win Oscars, while Meryl Streep stays seated for twenty years.

    People are going to vote for who they think is a nice person, or who has the same 'shipper affiliation as they do, or - dear lord have mercy - in the categories they've actually read a story in, they might vote by what they've read. No amount of debate is going to change that. There are the few who will vote on the excerps, myself included, when they haven't read, but I can't imagine that one goes in with no previous conceptions when voting. But the "social voting" isn't something you can alter, because it's not a result of the awards anyway.

    Getting to my point, I think that if we're going to do the awards, then you have to do them, but there isn't going to be any reform that will change the popularity factor. That mentality is a result of the way these boards are, the size and everything. Luckily, with the more workshops and "outreach" threads popping up, this board might get back on track as a community, inviting new writers, offering help to others whenever needed, supporting one another, and all that jazz. Personally, I'd like to see more of that and less of this.

    2). Ams and this Winter's Awards -

    I think she did an incredible job and I'm really sick of hearing the flack she's getting for this. Yes, they were late, yes, we're all impatient, and yes, it was all a bit disorganized. But real life will throw you punches like no other, we all know that, and this board isn't always going to be a first priority. So bravo Ams for getting it all done.

    3). The Summer Awards -

    If we want to give someone else a chance, that's great, but let's leave it between the people who volunteered and not call names and claim that everyone has someking of agenda. I believe that Melyanna's track record can leave us with a decent amount of reasonable doubt of her scheming on that issue :) If push comes to shove, I don't see why the awards can't be a collaboration. Two hosts, it's been done, it can be done again.

    4). The Handmaidens -

    I'm not sure that this is even the thread for this discussion, but I can understand the attitude that a lot of people have towards the handmaidens and that group.

    I, for one, know several handmaidens, and a few read my fic, so this is far from a personal attack. I just feel like you guys are everywhere, and as much as I hate to admit paranoia, it's just a little unnerving. I kinda feel like you guys are the Pink Ladies of the boards and I'm that chick in the thick glasses with two seconds screen time. I can't imagine how a newbie feels in that light.

    Now, should we ban social groups? By all means, no, I'm about the last person to want this place to have that kind of control
Moderators: Briannakin, mavjade
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