Amph The Legend of Korra: (spoilers from future seasons must be tagged)

Discussion in 'Community' started by DarthDragon164, Jul 17, 2010.

  1. Mar17swgirl Chosen One

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    star 7
  2. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

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    As a practical issue, too, it seems like an evil Avatar would be murdered pretty quickly.
  3. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    And Aang was fighting who the entire series?
  4. Lord Vivec Chosen One

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    He fought Azula, but he never actually overthrew her. Zuko overthrew the crown princess (with the help of Katara) and became Firelord. Aang is scott free.
  5. Spider-Fan Force Ghost

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    Technically he was either running from or defending himself from Zuko/Azula. I don't recall him ever taking the offensive unprovoked.
  6. Mar17swgirl Chosen One

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    Dec 26, 2000
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    Admit it, Jello, you lost. :p
  7. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

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    May 4, 2003
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    What's more, I can't even think of an incident where he can be said to have actually bested Azula in combat. Vivian has a point.
  8. The Great No One Force Ghost

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    Jun 4, 2005
    star 8
    no.
  9. TiniTinyTony Force Ghost

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    Mar 9, 2003
    star 5
    I just started watching TLA on netflix instant stream. I've been enjoying it so far, so any sequel, done right, should be a good series, as long as it was different enough from the original that it was still entertaining.
  10. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    Yes, because mastering the elements has a peaceful purpose. I'm sure that the whole solar eclipse business and the raising of armies was just because Aang was being sociable.

    Vivec: Proximal v. distal. Come on.

    Wocky: Ah, I see, so being a dismal failure means he wasn't actually fighting the Fire Nation? What sort of inane sophistry is this? We're not talking about Barack Obama here, you can feel free to use sense. :p
  11. Spider-Fan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2008
    star 4
    Yes, because mastering the elements has a peaceful purpose.

    It does though, since the purpose behind mastering control of the elements is to find balance and control. He went to great lengths to not use his talents offensively whenever possible.

    Your point to begin with was that Aang was Evil for having overthrown the Fire Nation. He didn't, Zuko did. So your point became that he was continually fighting Zuko/Azula. He wasn't, he was escaping them or defending himself.

    And the events of Black Sun were to stop the Firelord, not to overthrow his nation. The Fire Nation would have remained, Aang never blamed the people for the conflict.
  12. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

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    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    Eh, have to disagree, Spiderfan. The Avatar's policy was pretty clearly regime change. Roku threatened it, then in his afterlife talked multiple times to Aang about how he regretted never going through with it. In the run up to their final confrontation, the debate wasn't even about whether to depose the Firelord--that was a given--but rather to kill him as well. Likewise, the whole mission to the Fire Nation makes little sense if they were trying to respect the sovereignty of the Fire Nation and it's internal succession policies. They could've easily forced a release of imperial holdings without interfering with Azula's coronation.

    So yes, while one can say that Aang's issue was not "with the people" of the Fire Nation, that's not really meaningful, insofar as they enthusiastically supported the traditional government and its policies, and he was determined that both should no longer exist. I don't think Hernan Cortes bore the Aztec "people" much personal malice either, for what it's worth.
  13. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    Spider(hyphen)fan: Zuko overthrew nothing. He merely took the throne, which was his prerogative as a member of the imperial family. He was older than his sister and it was his right--his sister, I need not point out, was never actually crowned. Watch the show.

    Aang, on the other hand, continually drove the Fire Nation outside of its colonies. He actively conspired to overthrow it and to assassinate its rulers. He had no right to do any such thing.

    Also, what do the people have to do with anything? Nobody cares about the people--Aang clearly doesn't, as you admit. This was all about assassinating the royalty of the Fire Nation, which *is* the Fire Nation. This was all about repelling the Fire Nation from its colonies and denying the world the fruits of its advancements so that Aang could set himself up as the great hero, because he felt emo and upset about abandoning his people.

    Zuko just happened to be smart enough to position himself on a side of the conflict that would ensure the Fire Nation was not wiped out. What do you think would happen if he wasn't around to take the throne?

    I'm seriously wondering if you people watched the same show as I did. This is all patently obvious.
  14. Mar17swgirl Chosen One

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    Dec 26, 2000
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    [face_laugh] :_| [face_laugh]

    Oh, Jello. :p
  15. Lord Vivec Chosen One

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    Aang, on the other hand, continually drove the Fire Nation outside of its colonies. He actively conspired to overthrow it and to assassinate its rulers. He had no right to do any such thing.

    He is the Avatar; he has every right. The job of the Avatar is to maintain balance in the world. The Fire Nation expanding into other nations, including the attempted genocide of the Air Nomads and the overthrow of the Earth King, destroys the balance of the world. It is the job of the Avatar to expel the Fire Nation from those colonies. Aang also had the backing of the spirit world, including the previous Avatar, who was from the Fire Nation.

    You'll note that at the point Aang fought Ozai, Ozai was in the process of scorching the entire planet and destroying everything. Being the Avatar, Aang had every right to stop Ozai from using Sozun's comet to destroy the planet. Aang had every right to kill him, but you'll note that Aang his life. It is clear that Aang isn't evil.

    I know it's your schtick to be pro-imperial stuff, but this is a KIDS SHOW, not. :p
    The closest he came to besting her was the drill episode, and even then she was relatively unscathed.
    lol
  16. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    I'm serious. I don't know if Aang is outright malicious, or if all air monks are crazy luddites and technophobes.

    Vivec: He is the Avatar; he has every right. The job of the Avatar is to maintain balance in the world. The Fire Nation expanding into other nations, including the attempted genocide of the Air Nomads and the overthrow of the Earth King, destroys the balance of the world. It is the job of the Avatar to expel the Fire Nation from those colonies. Aang also had the backing of the spirit world, including the previous Avatar, who was from the Fire Nation.

    Oh, does he, now? He has the right to create conflict and discord simply because he recognized a few toys as a child? Because he is this ubermensch who can master all the elements? Might makes right, does it?

    As far as the previous Avatar--yes, a traitor to boot. This is a biased source of support, and the spirit world has always been jealous of the material world; witness the face stealer.

    You'll note that at the point Aang fought Ozai, Ozai was in the process of scorching the entire planet and destroying everything. Being the Avatar, Aang had every right to stop Ozai from using Sozun's comet to destroy the planet. Aang had every right to kill him, but you'll note that Aang his life. It is clear that Aang isn't evil.

    Well. Ozai was a usurper. I can't really account for his nonsense, but I'm just saying that two wrongs don't make a right. Obviously Iroh was the legitimate Fire Lord, and in a sane world, he would have been enthroned instead of Zuko. He modestly avoided elimating Ozai because of brotherly piety and wishing to avoid the impression of more civil war, but there's no reason he couldn't have stepped in after Zuko stopped his sister's coronation.

    edit: but on a side note, some plants actually require some fire in order to spread. Are you sure Ozai wasn't just gardening? What, Aang is anti-environmentalist too, now??

    I know it's your schtick to be pro-imperial stuff, but this is a KIDS SHOW, not.

    It is not. It is a serious political drama.
  17. darthcaedus1138 Force Ghost

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    Oct 13, 2007
    star 5
    The Fire Nation was already making conflict and discord. Aang was trying to stop that.
  18. Lord Vivec Chosen One

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    Apr 17, 2006
    star 7
    This thread is now incredibly awesome.
  19. darthcaedus1138 Force Ghost

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    Oct 13, 2007
    star 5
    Yeah, the legend of Korra should have Jello as a pro-Fire Nation villain, always getting into arguments with the hero(ine)? about how great the Fire Nation was.
  20. Spider-Fan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2008
    star 4
    Zuko had been turned away from the family, an enemy of the nation. He was owed nothing. Azula was named Fire Lord by her father. The coronation is merely ceremonial.

    Assassinate?? He specifically sought out non-lethal means of defeating Ozai. That's his job as Avatar. To protect and maintain the balance of the universe.

    And when did Aang ever successfully drive the Fire Nation out of any territory?? I seem to recall it was always someone else.

    Never said anything of the sort. I said he doesn't blame the people of the Fire Nation for the poor choices of their leaders.

    If by your standards overthrowing or assassination of the present power is evil the Fire Nation overthrew and assassinated far more people than Aang, who sought balance through non-confrontation as much as possible and only begrudgingly took on Ozai.
  21. Mar17swgirl Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 26, 2000
    star 7
    This. Is. Brilliant! [face_laugh] :_| [face_laugh] :_| [face_laugh]
  22. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

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    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    The whole of the Avatar is pretty questionable, when you get down to it. Most everything about his "mission" seems to revolve around keeping things locked in geopolitical stasis. That permanently enshrines the Southern Water Tribe in pretty grinding poverty, the city states of Ba Sing Se and Omashu with the majority of the world's population, influence, and mineral wealth, and the Fire Nation with comparatively little arable land. Since neither the people nor the rulers of any one Nation are demonstrably better than any other, I fail to see why there should be a divine mandate protecting the arbitrary superiority of one group over another.
  23. Lord Vivec Chosen One

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    Apr 17, 2006
    star 7
    Jello = [image=http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100425173307/avatar/images/4/46/Fire_Nation_Man.png]

    :p
  24. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    Really? Let us count the ways.

    The Fire Nation created a dam in order to allow small villages to flourish. The Fire Nation educated colonials in its best schools. The Fire Nation developed advanced technology to reduce the reliance on beasts of burden (contrast this to the Avatar, who uses a bison as a mode of transportation--tell me, who do you think PETA would support?). The Fire Nation heats tea with their own chi, reducing the reliance on fossil fuels and thereby assisting against global warming.

    The Fire Nation is just.

    The Fire Nation is socially responsible.

    The Fire Nation is progressive.

    The Fire Nation is environmentalist.

    What have the air nomads ever done to help others, hiding in their mountain retreats? What has the Earth Kingdom done, sheltered behind its walls? When have the Water Tribes come to anybody's assistance, isolated as they are in their wintry wastes?

    Only the Fire Nation is courageous enough to do what is right. They could easily have stayed in their lovely gardens in the Caldera, but great princes like Iroh and Azula journey to the ends of the earth, sacrificing their livelihoods so that others may live better.

    Praise be to the Fire Nation. Praise be to Lord Sozin.

    The Incredulous Spider-Fan: Zuko had been turned away from the family, an enemy of the nation. He was owed nothing. Azula was named Fire Lord by her father. The coronation is merely ceremonial.

    The coronation is everything. It represents the true governance of the Fire Nation--Ozai, being a usurper, knew he couldn't hold the title much longer. Zuko merely took the opportunity to seize the vacant throne, and did so in a better manner than his father did.

    Assassinate?? He specifically sought out non-lethal means of defeating Ozai. That's his job as Avatar. To protect and maintain the balance of the universe.

    Only because a turtle taught him how. That wasn't the original idea, as evidenced by the Melon Lord Plan?.

    And when did Aang ever successfully drive the Fire Nation out of any territory?? I seem to recall it was always someone else.


    Again, being a dismal failure doesn't make him innocent. It just means he's a pitiful excuse for an Avatar--and we all know why, because of his unjust aggression, his utter recklessness and lack of seriousness when it comes to training, and his ridiculous infatuation for Katara, who he could never be worthy of.

    If by your standards overthrowing or assassination of the present power is evil the Fire Nation overthrew and assassinated far more people than Aang, who sought balance through non-confrontation as much as possible and only begrudgingly took on Ozai.

    The Fire Nation is a sovereign entity and all of their actions are acts of war, and any excesses therein to be investigated in future. I am sure the Fire Nation legal system will ascertain if anything went amiss. Is there any such legal oversight of the hallow Avatar, who can do no wrong? Of course not.
  25. Mar17swgirl Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 26, 2000
    star 7
    Riiiiight.

    [image=http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/Tauriel/firenationpollution1.png]

    [image=http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/Tauriel/firenationpollution2.png]