The Light Side EUC Temple! Everyone is Welcomed to Join! [v.4.0]

Announcement: Please help me welcome back Stridarious to the lightside. He will be resuming his role as a Padawan

I loved I Jedi and read it more then a couple of times. Its a great book

 

Welcome Strid

The Jedi Apprentice was a good series. Was because the last book was weird.

 

Strid: Welcome back.

Falcon: I've read it several times myself.

Patty: That is partially because the author was pushed into ending the series so that she could write about Ani/Obi-Wan instead of Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan.

 

Thank-you. It's great to be back and apart of the Lightsiders again . Oh, and before I end up forgetting; I appologize for not realizing and responding to this post, since it had been posted...my bad...

 

*blank stare to Strid*

*starts to drool*

Sorry, got confused

Welcome back Strid!

I'll read it then Crimson...sounds good! Now to dig it up in my disaster of a room...

Explosives and firearms, eh? Sounds like the perfect job for you!

 

MALZ/Strid: You've been up to all sorts of mischief in my absence, haven't you?

Patty: To the best of my knowledge there are no books about Yoda being a teen; as I was saying, that would take one back hundreds of years. I was talking about at least one book (Shatterpoint) that while taking place during the Clone Wars, tells us some about Mace Windu's childhood and general past.

Crimson: Sounds like fun. What sort of guns and explosives? I thought you had said you were in the artillery...


My Question: There are good reasons to choose Obiwan or Corran Horn, which have been explained. Mace Windu is in exemplary Jedi in terms of his mastery of the Force and the lightsaber, as well as how he maintains his Jedi vision/path even during and after facing some of the darkest experiences and fears that a Jedi can face, on Haruun Kal in Shatterpoint. Yoda is a great exemplar of someone who most truly and genuinely believes and understands just how fundamental and important the Force is, who has some understanding of the emptiness of apparent phenomena, and is able to face his own death serenely.

Luke sometimes gets short shrift because of his fall to the Dark Side in Dark Empire, as well as his stupid and arrogant mistakes during the Jedi Academy trilogy. But let us not forget that he redeems Darth Vader and has been argued by some to be the true Chosen One. He also does pretty well for someone who has, compared to many other Jedi, a pretty small amount of formal training with accomplished Jedi teachers. Obiwan dies, Yoda dies, and then Obiwan stops appearing in visions and even in dreams, leaving Luke on his own to figure out how to do things. Apart from a few shining examples like Corran Horn, he remains both the most powerful and the wisest, truest Jedi that there is, throughout most of the EU, or at least what EU I am personally willing to read- there is some really bad stuff out there.

Light Side Revan and Light Side Exile should not be forgotten either. Each of them accomplishes some pretty spectacular things, brings light to many dark places, and faces some very tough challenges and temptations by the Dark Side successfully. Revan's the only one I know of that's able to persuade a Sith ghost to seek redemption. Both show an ability to directly alter the destiny of entire worlds, sectors, even the whole Republic, and do so in a way that is actually beneficial to most of the inhabitants and actually accomplishes their own goals. I also personally like them because both (depending on player choice) most likely in one way or another defy (or at least intend to defy) the Old Republic Jedi's rigid, dogmatic, even downright dangerous views on love.


Question 1: I have to say Vision of the Future, with TTT and I, Jedi tied for second. I like Spectre of the Past a great deal, don't get me wrong, but it is significantly shorter as well as being the weaker of the two parts of the HoT duology, packing less of a punch than VOTF.

Question 2: Timothy Zahn, hands down. Not all of his Star Wars writing maintains the same exact level of quality, but even to have maintained such quality as his lesser Star Wars works contain, and to have continued to manifest such ingenuity with plots and characters, is no mean feat. In Vision of the Future, certainly, he has attained the pinnacle of canonical Star Wars writing.

 

Interesting questions Eagle. Is going take for me a week to answer those questions.

Other members may two or three days.

What did Strid do Malz?

 

Patty: I thought we were all already answering the same questions...

 

I have an annoucement to make:
I JediFalcon have taken on Stridarious as my padawan learner

Eagle: I still believe that Luke is the true chosen one, mainly because he restored the balance of Light by training a new generation of Jedi.

 

Congratulations Falcon. yeah Strid.

Eagle, I was half sleep when I posted.

 

Strid: Congrads on your new master. Drive her crazier for me...

Malz: It is good do find it then read it. It is odd that most people say that to me..

Eagle: No, I play with the Engineers so if the army has it yeah...

Falcon: I'd have to disagree with you on Luke's case. How is empowering the the light side, by training a new generation of Jedi, balancing the Force as a whole? I do think Anikin was the chosen one, he just went about it differently than most would have understood it. Oh, and congrads on the new padawan.

 

Crimson: There is an argument to be made that the true balance is not between the Dark and the Light per se, but rather between various principles which can be taken to extremes, or which can work in harmony. Active and passive, as well as rational and emotional, occur as important ones for the Jedi. My personal POV is that the Prequel Jedi favored the passive and the rational too much, thus leading to imbalance and corruption.

Ah. Must be fun.


Falcon: I think you make an interesting point, in part for the reasons above.

Good to hear, about Stridarious.


Patty: That's understandable.

 

Eagle: But was that imbalance inside the Order or outside of it?

 

Crimson: Both. The imbalance is basically within the Order, and in their relationship to the Force, but when the Jedi are corrupted, they corrupt the Republic as well by extension. Kreia argues in KOTORII that the Jedi are really the core of the Republic. In a sense the Sith also represent imbalance, just a more extreme and more obvious form. One could also lay part of the blame for the imbalance in the Jedi, with them. The Jedi react in fear to the out of control emotions of the Sith, by repressing their own emotions.

 

Eagle: But does an imbalance inherently lead to corruption? How was the Jedi' relation to the Force out of balance? I understand Kreia's arguements though they aren't inherently right, especially because of her other motivations.

 

Crimson: When one has a deep connection to the Force and wields it actively in the world, carrying and using a lethal weapon in conjunction with it, of course an imbalance in that relationship leads to corruption. It's like running around with a lethal weapon and not understanding how or when to use it, only worse. If one imbalance, such as favoring the active too much, or favoring one's emotions too much, leads to the Dark Side, the way of the Sith, then ultimately, so does the opposite imbalance. Musashi says in the Book of Five Rings that "Too much is the same as not enough." Trying to exercise too much control over one's passions, over one's emotional reactions and attachments, trying to just repress them, leads to having little or no control over them, because they fester and build up until they burst out or explode at the worst possible moment.

They sometimes seem to favor the passive over the active. More importantly, they fear emotions and emotional attachments, particularly when it comes to passion and attachment to people, and allow those fears to control them. Their enslavement by these fears shows that they do not trust in themselves, in their own basic natures, as they ought. This causes them to question their path and their susceptibility to the Dark Side, sometimes more than they ought to. They seem to favor the rational over the emotional, and to confuse the rational with the intuitive, which is the true source of their insight and power. Notice that the Jedi Code says "there is no ignorance, there is knowledge." I think it really should say "wisdom" rather than knowledge." Not that knowledge is not important, but for someone like a Jedi, wisdom is more important, and it is important to know the difference between the two.

 

Eagle: Well put.

 

I agree with the part. The Wisdom. Still Yoda was very wise and I don't know why he did not sense exactly the fall of the Jedi. Yoda knew Anakin changes and Yoda did not try to stop him.
Or did he?

 

Crimson: Thank you.

(Bows)


Patty: Yoda is an interesting case. Obviously he has some awareness of Anakin's issues in ROTS, and in TPM he warns "Grave danger I fear in his training." While he does seem to go along with the patterns of imbalance I have noted above, he still seems to represent the best of the Jedi as they are. His failures may have something to do with the issues I laid out above. While the PT and I believe some EU would tell against this idea, the case might be made for Yoda as a more forward-thinking Jedi, who while steeped in the Order's traditions might be able to see past its dogma. It is interesting to note that in the CT, while Yoda tells Luke "You will know, when you are calm, at peace, passive," this could be interpreted in several ways, and he never seems to impress upon Luke that he shouldn't fall in love or get married. Then again, by that time both he and Obiwan have each had some time to contemplate the Order's downfall and failures, and may perhaps have developed some understanding of the issues that existed. After all, it's Obiwan who says in ROTJ, "The Emperor knew, as I did, that if Anakin were to have any offspring, they would be a threat to him," which seems to take a positive view of the existence of Anakin's children, not exactly what would one expect from a run-of-the-mill Old Republic Jedi.

 

I think the Jedi Order needed that kind of big shake to see how wrong they were.

Exactly were not wrong but they got over due with their ideas.

 

So you are saying they were heavily sent on things based on a flawed idea....

 

What is a flawed idea?

I was talking about the attachment part. I think they were wrong.

 

A flawed idea is one that has an inherent fault to it.

 

Perhaps we should start a new discussion topic.

EDIT: OPPM is deet-da-dee.

 

What were you think about talking about, Eagle?