The lightsaber battles in OT are pathetic

and boring!

 

No, not really...

 

They are much better than the PT battles. The emotional impact is second to none.

 

So you would prefer them to do unneccessary jumps and flips and expend all their energy doing meaningless stuff? If you really watch the TPM duel, ALOT of the jumps/flips are unneccessary. I laugh when I see it as it looks so bad to me.

I am in the minority on the AOTC duel also. I wasn't a big fan of the Yoda duel (I will agree with another poster's description of a "Frog on acid" to describe that one).

That being said, when I watch the movies with my nephews who are 11 & 13, they love the prequels way better than the OT. They think that the duels are way better in the PT and the OT is boring.

Maybe it is an age thing seeing as I am now in my early 30's. I do not think all the new "action" movies that move so fast are all that great. They seem a bit cluttered to me. I understand and appreciate "The Matrix" because there is a reason they should be able to move the way they do. But some of the others who try to use the same type of direction/choreographing, I simply find slightly amusing at best.

Just my $.02.

 

as far as the actual fighting techniques, i must admit that the lightsaber battles of the PT are much more visually appetizing, but there's nothing beneath the suface. it's all just showing off the actors' atheleticism and the wonderous special effects. the lightsaber battles of the OT actually benefited the story rather than try to draw the audience's attention away from the bad dialogue. the lightsaber battles of the OT have superb dialoge and acting that furthers the story. you're not just paying attention to their fighting, you're watching the characters react to one another.

 

Nobody in the PT yet has faced anyone they really know, with the exception of Yoda/Dooku (and even then they probably haven't associated for a while). It has simply been a face off, trying to defeat the other. However in the OT, each battle has a great significance to the individual characters' developments. Plus there's taunting, tempting, goading, etc.

Besides that, as all the characters know the person they're facing, it is naturally slower. I've often noticed that while fencing. If you know someone and what their fighting style is, the whole fight is taken much more slowly. I'm not sure why, but I have noticed that.

 

Personally, I find lightsaber battles quiet boring regardless. Flips or no flips... heh, I'm more of a blaster kind of guy myself. Though, if I were to choose a favorite battle... it'd be the confrontation between Vader and Luke in ROTJ.

 

My rank, greatest to least.

Episode I
V
VI
II
IV

 

I personally like the OT lightsaber scenes over the PT ones. Don't get me wrong I love all of the action involved, but the OT ones just had this intensity that the PT seems to be lacking.

Also, the OT scenes were not boring when they first aired and what we see now was the height of their technology for the lightsaber scenes.

 

The lightsaber battles in OT are pathetic

Much like this thread.

 

I think thus far the choreography and fighting in the PT duels has been better, but the OT duels have better dialogue and non-duel interaction in them.

But each movie's duel has something special about it.

The best lightsaber duel, however, is, of course, Han vs. the dead tauntaun in ESB.



Rick McCallum loves you!

 

The best lightsaber duel, however, is, of course, Han vs. the dead tauntaun in ESB.

LOL! Its your little comments like these that make my day, Adam. I just can't stop giggling!



Back on topic, I enjoy the PT duels but I like the OT ones better. Speaking as a person who has had sword handling training, the PT duels are full of moves that really are unnecessary in a combat sense. In a realistic duel you seek to kill or incapacitate your adversary as fast as you possibly can, not do flips in the air. The OT duels are much more reserved, a bit more realistic and full of drama. The PT duels look great, but they are too, I dunno, flashy and devoid of drama. Don't get me wrong though, my favorite part about TPM was the duel!

 

There hasn't been a PT lightsaber duel that even comes close to equaling ESB's.

 

When I think "lightsaber duel" Vader vs. Luke ESB is the first image that enters my mind.

 

I like the OT battles better because they're closer to what an actual Kendo duel would be like. My favorite fight (from a technical stand-point) is Obi-Wan and Vader's on the DS1. As Bob Brown once put it, they were "playing chess with swords." They were two old masters who were cautious with each move they made. Obi and Vader taunted each other and made small attacks here and there before seeing an opening for a larger one. This is the way real sword fights are done. ESB's was almost as good. Luke utilized a traditional, but rough, style, while Vader used an elegant one handed style at the beginning. Near the end though, Luke's fighting got desperate and ugly. This is understandable though given his circumstances.

Then of course, there's my favorite (from a dramatic view) fight of all in ROTJ. Luke is still somewhat sloppy, but his style is still much better. But halfway through, I gave up caring about the technical side. By then, you can just tell Vader is doubting everything. The ESB duel was dragged out because Vader wanted Luke captured and preferably unharmed. In ROTJ, it was to the death. And Anakin should have wiped the floor with Luke since he really only had about 6 more months of training between ESB and ROTJ. Anakin fights just well enough to keep Luke at bay and then just gives in and lets the angry Luke hand him his ass. If Shaw could have emoted through his mask, he would have had a very defeated, "how could it have come down to this?" look on his face. Then once Luke beats him down, my favorite single moment in all of SW happens: He looks at his father's mechnical hand, looks at his own, and throws away his lightsaber. Powerful stuff.

Then you have the PT duels. Thus far, Qui-Gon has been the only Jedi (or Sith) who has come even close to fighting with a traditional style. (Maul was also pretty much technically correct as well. Yeah he was flashy, but that was mostly due to the bizzare nature of his weapon). Obi-Wan's enguarde positions are ugly versions of real ones, and he performs any number of annoying, flashy, and unnecessary moves. Though this is muted in AOTC. Anakin, surprisingly, was actually a little better. When he was highly emotional, the sloppiness showed through, but his fight with Dooku was probably the most technically correct fight in the PT so far. There was no leaping about and few flashy moves. Both fighters used a traditional overhead en guarde stance and were pretty careful about their moves. Dooku was just the better swordsman. The Yoda/Dooku fight was nothing more than ILM and Lucas having a field day.

Of course, the biggest problem is the fact that not one fight in the PT has had any dramatic substance to it. In TPM, Qui and Obi just fight Maul to keep him from killing the Naboo. In AOTC, it could have been any two Jedi fighting Dooku. He was just trying to escape, and they were just trying to stop him. It wasn't even really necessary. That fight could have been removed from the movie and not detracted from it at all (other than disappointing fanboys).





Eva_Pilot04,
Twice the insanity...

 

The Yoda/Dooku fight was nothing more than ILM and Lucas having a field day.

I won't dispute this, but just for the hell of it, how WOULD a two-foot-tall guy fight a six-foot-tall guy with a sword? lol



Rick McCallum loves you!

 

"That fight could have been removed from the movie and not detracted from it at all (other than disappointing fanboys)."


Gotta disagree with you here. It accomplished many things, including teaching Yoda a valuable lesson; showing Anakin's pride, power, and beginning his loss of humanity; and shwoing that Dooku is the most powerful villain the PT heroes have confronted thus far.

 

I think the RotJ duel is the greatest of all time. I also agree that the OT duels have much more emotion, however, do the duels in the PT really need emotion? As said before, all the OT duels had peers fighting peers. The PT duels have been "Hey, I'm a Jedi. Your a Sith. Let's go!" Thats how I feel at least...

 

I like the emotional/ character driven/ story movement aspect of the OT duels much better than the PT duels. I guess I prefer those things over choreography. Which is not to say I don't enjoy the choreography of the PT. I do. I just wish there was a point to the duels as opposed to the feeling I get that the duels are simply like "end boss" parts of video games. Lucas passed up some really good character oppurtunity between Anakin, Obi Wan and Dooku in favor of a fun but ultimately pointless fight between Yoda and Dooku.

Compare the end duels of ROTJ/ESB with anything from the PT...which are more powerful emotionally? I guess I like story and character more than eye candy.

 

Eva_Pilot04: I agree 100%. Wow. Yes. Amazing stuff.

Every single duel in the entire saga (all 5 of them) I love for their own unique and amazing qualities. Whether it's what's going on in their heads, the flashiness of the moves, or the unfiltered raw, raging emotion behind every crashing stroke of the blade, I love the Star Wars lightsaber fights. All of them.

(Yes Adam, even the Taun Taun vs. Han one. )


Oh, and Jello: I think he knew that, he was just mentioning the actor who's face actually represents Vader's. (But maybe I'm wrong. )

 

The OT duels are classic, and I don't think Obi and Vader were playing chess with swords, I think it was '77 and the effects weren't that great.

One thing I hate about the DOTF is when Maul is on the ground, Obi does a flip over him for no reason? Whats up with that?

 

Obi-Wan does a lot of things in the TPM duel that aren't necessary at all. My favorite example of this is the part of the duel just before they leave the hangar when Obi is in mid-lightsaber twirl and Maul kicks him across the room. If Maul had been feeling a little more vindictive and not wanted to drag the duel out as long as possible, he would have taken the opportunity of Obi-Wan's unguardedness to chop his head off instead of just kicking him. This shows how inexperienced and foolish Obi-Wan still is at that point in his life.

It's a theme in the PT duels that they're between superiors and inferiors and play out like an elaborate game of manipulation. While the PT duels are flashier, the OT duels have an emotional profundity the PT duels lack because they're actually between people we care about and have more interpersonal tension than "I'm a Sith and he's a Jedi, so I should try to kill him."

 

>>It accomplished many things, including teaching Yoda a valuable lesson; showing Anakin's pride, power, and beginning his loss of humanity; and shwoing that Dooku is the most powerful villain the PT heroes have confronted thus far.<<

What lesson did Yoda learn? Did he even need to learn one? I think that Yoda is the only Jedi who has any idea what's going on. He flashed Palpatine a rather suspicious look after he finished Padme's sentence for her. He didn't back his right hand man much when Mace dismissed the idea that Dooku could be behind the assassination. He knows the Jedi are getting rather full of themselves and says as much in the temple. I think that was as much of a dig on Mace as it was Obi-Wan. He's also not nearly as shocked as Obi when the idea of a Jedi erasing Kamino from the archives was brought up. The other Jedi will learn the lesson of their arrogance well. Yoda will simply watch things crumble around him knowing full well there was nothing he could really do, thus exiling himself to Dagobah.

As for Anakin, his pride and power were highlighted in almost every scene he was in. And the Tusken slaughter/confession to Padme was the climax of his fall. His duel with Dooku did little or nothing to add to that.

Then there's Dooku. I don't think he's really the most powerful, nor is he meant to be. Palpatine is pulling all the strings. Dooku is just yet another pawn in his game. If the final duel did anything it was to show just how much stronger the dark side has become than the light. But TPM and some of the events prior to it in AOTC did a good enough job of that IMO.

Oh, and yes, I know Shaw was only Vader's face, but Sithman got what I meant. Sorry about the confusion.

And yeah, the effects weren't that good in '77. The "blades" of the lightsabers were so fragile that a huge energetic fight would have been impractical (never mind Sir Alec's age). And that's probably more the reason the fight was the way it was. Lucas probably didn't give the choreography as much thought as the impact of the scene. However, as it comes across, it is more technically correct. It is also more appropriate to the characters. Obi-Wan has calmed down much in his years and realizes the danger of fighting Anakin. Anakin, meanwhile, has grown to be more methodical in his approach to things. While he is grossly intolerant of failure, he has become much more patient and focused. He knows the limitations of his age and injuries and opts for a more careful approach in his fight with Obi-Wan. Is he superior to Luke? Yes, by far. He was given formal training and has years of experience. Luke's training was more focused on the spiritual side of the Force, rather than the physical. However, Obi-Wan is still dangerous despite his age and has defeated Anakin once before.




Eva_Pilot04,
Twice the insanity...

 

I just can't get over Obi's pointless summersault when he has Maul on the ground,

or maybe he was going to land on him saber first?


perhaps its wishful thinking....