Lit The Maestro Trilogy

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Kyris Cavisek, Jan 23, 2013.

  1. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    I would just like to campaign for Glee Anselm as a major planet for the EU and for the ST. I think it would be cool.
  2. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

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    May 28, 2003
    star 6
    Wes, I noted in my post that I am a huge fan of the Thrawn Trilogy and the Hand of Thrawn duology. I just wish that Zahn would spend time developing species like the Diamala or Ishori in his books, rather than always introducing a new set of stuff that will be for the most part overlooked or forgotten when he writes his next book. The Expanded Universe isn't enriched by adding 20 new species or worlds that never get mentioned again. The EU is enriched by taking those things already introduced and expanding on them. Adding new stuff is always good, but not at the expense of not developing the old stuff.

    Feel free to disagree, but that is my take on it. [face_peace]

    --Adm. Nick
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  3. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    I agree, however my little realm is the New Jedi Order. I hate it when they only name drop a random Jedi without any explanation.
  4. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    Wait, was something actually announced/hinted, or is this entire thread just speculation?
  5. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    Zahn simply is campaigning to get the proposed series
  6. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    I can agree with this. For my part, I'm somewhat annoyed when Zahn, and other writers, introduce new species as background characters with little explanation on what they look like, and they're never seen again outside of that book. I think the intent is to convey the fact that the SW universe is incredibly vast, with millions upon millions of sentient species, so many that it's hard to keep track of them... but I also like a bit of cohesiveness.

    As for the larger concepts in Zahn's book, I can agree that it's annoying they seem so self contained in the Zahniverse. At the same time, though, I'm perfectly fine with him creating his own characters. I liked most of the main cast in Scoundrels, never mind the fact that half of them are new. I also personally really liked the Stormtrooper plot in Allegiance/Choices of One, but I realize quite a few don't agree with that.

    I do believe Scoundrels marked a Zahn who's much more willing to add new stuff but also incorporate old stuff. I may be wrong about this, but I've never known Zahn to use Black Sun to any large degree in his stories. Having Kell Tainer in the story, building on the relationship between Han and Lando from the HST (though that may have been from necessity, since they needed to be able to work together). Scoundrels certainly feels different structurally from all of Zahn's other novels.
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  7. cthugha Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2010
    star 3
    ...
    At what point exactly did this turn into the Ageism and Fetishes thread?
  8. krtmd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 5, 2012
    star 4
    Oops, I was sure we were in the Diversity Thread...;)
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  9. cthugha Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2010
    star 3
    That actually happens to me a lot these days.
    I take that as a good sign -- Coop's awareness-raising plan has definitely taken off at least in this community.
    Last edited by cthugha, Jan 25, 2013
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  10. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    I take it as my cue to be the biggest racist bastard I can be.

    Kill all Squibs.
  11. cthugha Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2010
    star 3
    [IMG]
    (I know this belongs in the WEG thread, but... derailment FTW :p)
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  12. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    I would enjoy it much more if the Squib was the battering ram.
  13. fett 4 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2000
    star 4


    I do not mean he should write about the OT charachters and just use Lightsabers (though where Luke's blaster was in Choices of One was I'm not sure [face_thinking] ) or simply hang around on Tatoonie.

    I am talking about the actual Universe though so it's actually connected to Stawars. Not some place out of the way that has no connection what ever where Thrawn defeats the power of the Doobies because he discerned there power off the Woobie.

    It's why I thought the best scenes in Scoundrels were to do with Winter and wondering about whether Leia was on Alderaan and the connection their. It's one of the (many) reason's why I felt his two books on Mara were wasted opportunities and what this sounds like.

    Doesn't Fel only discover about the Chiss etc after RTJ anyway. Now a book on Fel during the Imperial years sounds interesting but only in the Starwars Universe not in some separate out of the way place with no connection whatever . Do you get what I am saying now ?

    Besides why set it during the OT era if you are not going to write about or at least have some connection to it.
    Last edited by fett 4, Jan 25, 2013
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  14. cthugha Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2010
    star 3
    You must have loathed the Lost Tribe of the Sith...
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  15. fett 4 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2000
    star 4
    Never even bothered to read it
  16. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    fett 4 does have a point, I think.

    Zahn has become increasingly isolated from the rest of the universe, like a child turning their back on the rest of the kids and playing alone in the corner with the same old toys.

    Zahn sorta WAS Star Wars EU, at least for a while, but that hasn't been true since HoT, fourteen years ago. When he bailed on the NJO, he basically bailed on progress, on relevancy to a point. I'm sure he disagreed with the direction the EU was taking, but why didn't he work to change that direction? Think of how much better the last five years or so would have been if he stayed involved with pushing the timeline forward.

    Now, I'm not saying esoteric work has no place in the EU, far from it. If you guys know my tastes, you know that's as far from the truth as it gets.
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  17. fett 4 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2000
    star 4
    Thank you at least someone gets what I am trying too saying.

    For me it's not even Zahn turning his back. There were elements of that in the HoT, I don't even care if just writes about his own characters, but that it is still in the Starwars universe, not separate from Starwars, but merely with the Stawars label attached so he can sell more.

    Which is why out off the proposed trilogy the only one vaguely relevant (and I am not talking about how the story/characters would be written) and interesting, set during the OT era which is what he is writing in, is the Vader/Mara one.
    Last edited by fett 4, Jan 26, 2013
  18. Sitara Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2001
    star 3
    For crying out loud, doesn't Zahn write about anything other than Thrawn and Chiss? And Mara?

    Can't we have something new, bold, exciting and dare I say it...actually good?
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  19. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Scoundrels ringing any bells?
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  20. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    QFT.

    I don't even mind his writing about Mara but Thrawn and the Chiss got old very quickly.
  21. MercenaryAce Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2005
    star 5
    Nick: not only do I strongly disagree, I challenge you to a duel over the matter.
  22. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    I think I hear what you say too. And I find myself agreeing. It has nothing to do with not acknowledging Zahn's qualities - or about limiting SW - it's about trying to pinpoint a number of things that annoys you in Zahn's writing, and that you think are grim and unnecessary - because (at least in my case) I actually like his work and respect him as an author. But sometimes those you like most, also annoy you the most!

    I do think Allegiance added important pieces to the undersatnding of Mara (for ex. she was established as a controlled and professinal character, opposed to the half-hysteric egotripper some authors have tilted towards) - but I think CoO added nothing but that glassbowl. And thus, it was a waisted oppotunity - all the bigger as Mara noevls don't come out everyday. And I basically didn't like the idea of Luke and Mara meeting earlier - and certainly not twice! It's not like I don't want to eat my cakes, it's more a... well, almost a slight frustration - we've got it set up that Luke and Mara meet in 9 ABY and we've bought it - and there's so much unexplored after that! Why not use and expand on what we have (and that Zahn actually established himself!!!) instead of trying to push around with the characters in a manner that won't give any ssatisfaction anyway?

    Well, that about that - it has nothing to do with the Maestro trilogy. I'm not going to read that trilogy for Thrawns sake and not for the Chiss either, though exploring the background of Thrawn does make sense to me - it's just that Thrawn excites me about as much as a tableful of unmade dishes. If Mara's in that story, I'll probably plow through it anyway and grow immensly annoyed at the constant efforts to show (or, more likely, say) how brillant he is and how predictable everyone else is, and why the essence of a community can be contained in a couple of statues and a panting. Short version: I'd much rather read something else.

    Then again, as long as it's not Zahn's version of rebel era Luke, I should keep my complains in check.
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  23. fett 4 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2000
    star 4
    Hmm like his work. I love the TTT and with reservations the HoT. I also liked OF which I thought did fine job off telling Thrawn's back story. I even liked Scoundrel's if albiet it was a bit emtionally empty to be truly great. So I do respect him as an Author. Put it this way if I didn't I wouldn't bother buying his books unlike say Denning.
    Doesn't mean I don't think he should be called out on something if I personally don't like it or think it's wrong.

    Take Mara. In Choices she chooses not to inform Vader about Luke Skywalker (and we know from Alliegence he is on google). Now her charachter is ment to be devoted to the Empire (even though everytime the rebellion pops up and she helps them instead btb) now from her perspective even if she didn't know that there was guy named Skywalker who blew up the Death Star or was part of the Rebellion (The Imperial and HER version of Bin Laden) which as Imp agent should have some inlking from reports etc but even if she didn't, she should at the very least be aware that if Vader himself is looking for this guy then it could be important to the Empire and worth following up on, but nope for whatever reason she decides not too even check it out herself.

    Like I say I have no problem him writing about his charachters providing its connected or relevant, not going off in to Chiss space that has no effect whatsoever on the rest of the Universe. Look at it this way, Zahn chose to set it during the OT era so at the very least it should have a connection, which is at least what the Vader/Mara story could at least have.

    As for Luke again it was a missed oppertunity. In ESB he is a battle scarred veteran in charge of his own fighter squadron, yet in Choices by the books end he is still written as the naive farmboy from the start of ANH.
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  24. fett 4 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2000
    star 4
    But Luke and Vader were not
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  25. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

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    Nov 15, 2004
    star 7
    A year into his service? I don't see him being that battle-scarred yet...

    ... And the Chiss Empire of the Hand fought against Daala in FotJ 8 and 9. They're not irrelevant in the slightest. And Denning, after all, wrote a whole trilogy about them!

    I am not a Vader fan so couldn't comment, but your criticisms of Zahn are not all warranted, I feel.