The Man of Steel

Discussion in 'Games: RPG & Miniatures' started by MasterKazur, Jul 22, 2006.

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  1. MasterKazur Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2004
    star 3
    Hi all, it's been a while :)
    I did this a year or so ago I think, but in the light of the new movie, I couldn't resist :)
    Here is the the Last Son of Krypton.

    [image=http://media.movieweb.com/galleries/482/2099/lo/co1B.jpg]

    Superman: Male Kryptonian Fringer 2/Scout 3/Noble 7; Init +0 (Dex); Defense 18 (+8 class, +0 Dex); DR 20; Spd 175 m, flight 175 m; VP/WP 165/30; Atk +23/+18 melee (1d3+15, unarmed) or +8/+3 ranged (3d10, head-vision); SQ Bonus class skill (Bluff), barter, trailblazing, heart +1, favor +3, inspire confidence, resource access, coordinate +1, invulnerability, heat-vision, speed, leaping, super-hearing, x-ray vision, super-strength, hyper-breath, weakness; SV Fort +17, Ref +8, Will +12; SZ M; FP 2; DSP 0; Rep +5; Str 40, Dex 10, Con 30, Int 18, Wis 16, Cha 18.
    Equipment: Costume and cape.
    Skill: Bluff +16, Diplomacy +12, Disguise +6, Gather Information +10, Handle Animal +8, Intimidate +9, Knowledge (bureaucracy) +9, Knowledge (history) +9, Listen +11, Pilot +2, Profession (farmer) +6, Profession (journalist) +14, Read/Write All Languages, Speak All Languages, Search +13, Sense Motive +15, Spot +11.
    Feats: Dodge, Endurance, Fame, Iron Will, Perfect Memory, Power Attack, Precise Shot, Sharp-Eyed, Weapon Group Proficiencies (blaster pistols, blaster rifles, primitive weapons, simple weapons).

    Special Qualities: Invulnerability - - Superman?s dense Kryptonian body provides him with a damage reduction of 20.

    Heat-Vision - - Superman can emit his body's stores of solar radiation through his eyes causing 3d10 damage.

    Speed - - Superman is able to defy gravity and fly at 425 km/h (7 squares/action) in atmosphere and Cruising (3 squares/action) in space. His running speed is also 425 km/h (175 m/action).

    Leaping - - Superman is able to leap great distances in a single bound. Multiply his jump distance by 50 to get his total distance jumped.

    Super-Hearing - - When Superman makes Listen checks the DC for the check is at +1 per 4 kilometers from him, rather than the usual 4 meters. He is also able to hear ultrasonic signals and high and low frequencies.

    X-Ray Vision - - Superman can see through solid objects (except lead) as if they weren?t there. He can make Search and Spot checks through walls, doors ect. The DC for his Spot checks is still modified by distance.

    Super-Strength - - Superman has a Strength of 65 for purposes of lifting objects and a +5 bonus to his Grappling checks and Strengths checks for purposes of breaking items.

    Hyper-Breath - - Superman can exhale a powerful blast of air, making a Strength check to trip targets within 50 meters of his position.

    Weakness - - Exposure to Kryptonite causes Superman?s cells to deteriorate, similar to radiation poisoning in a human being. Kryptonite causes Superman to lose all of his powers and his Strength and Constitution both drop to 12 (VP/WP 57/12).
    Every 10 rounds of exposure Superman must make a Fortitude save DC 18. The damage on a successful save is a 1d2 drain on his Constitution and a 1d3 drain on his Strength. The damage on a failed save is a 1d6 drain on his Constitution, a 1d4 drain on his Strength and a 1d2 drain on his Charisma. This effect will eventually kill Superman when his Constitution score drops to 0.
    Removal of the Kryptonite returns Superman?s powers and enables his body to regain lost Ability Points at a rate of one per round.



    Well there he is!
    He is a less powerful version of Superman than the one in the comics. This one is more like the Superman from the Superman Returns movie.
    He can do all the cool stuff that Superman is suppose to do but he is still vulnerable enough to be useable in a campaign (if you like that sort of crossover-thing).
    If he at some point loses all his vitality points he will stop any projectile (slugthrower) weapons without a fuss, and most blaster weapons bounce right off him too. But he can be scorched by a lucky hit from a blaster rifle though. But with 30 wound point
  2. Donp Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2003
    star 1
    A lot of good work there, but a few questions.

    Did you not give him the ability to fly? Just give him free Force Flight or something.

    Also, I think he should be higher-leveled, and why is he a noble? Shouldn't he rather be a soldier perhaps?

    Also his listen skill should be maxed. In Superman Returns he says this to Lois:


    SUPERMAN

    I can hear everything.

    I understand wanting to make him useful in a campaign (i.e. not overpowered) but he at least has to be able to fly. Also if a Strength of 40 gives him the ability to lift 100 tons then an strong Wookie (Str 20) should be able to lift 50 tons. And also, in Superman Returns he lifts the Kryptonian Continent, that weighs millions of tons.

    Anyway, good work, although I feel it needs some adjustment.
  3. MasterKazur Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2004
    star 3
    Did you not give him the ability to fly? Just give him free Force Flight or something.


    Speed - - Superman is able to defy gravity and fly at 425 km/h (7 squares/action) in atmosphere and Cruising (3 squares/action) in space. His running speed is also 425 km/h (175 m/action) ;)

    Also, I think he should be higher-leveled, and why is he a noble? Shouldn't he rather be a soldier perhaps?

    I don't think he should be higher leveled. The comic Superman is probably 15+ but the movie Superman is somewhere near here I think. Soldier doesn't really fit Superman. He may have great Strength and many abilities that some would consider "combat" abilities, but Superman really isn't a fighter. His fighting skills are not impressive, compared to Thor fx.
    The Fringer levels represent him in his early Clark Kent years. Up to about his 18th birthday ca. Then the scout levels are from his time in the fortress and his exploration of the ruins of Krypton. The Noble levels fit the best with Superman I think.

    Also his listen skill should be maxed. In Superman Returns he says this to Lois:
    SUPERMAN
    I can hear everything.


    He did not mean that litteraly. He can't hear everything! :) But he does have an amazing hearing. Thats why I gave him:

    Super-Hearing - - When Superman makes Listen checks the DC for the check is at +1 per 4 kilometers from him, rather than the usual 4 meters. He is also able to hear ultrasonic signals and high and low frequencies.

    He litteraly has a hearing that is a thousand times better than a normal persons. If he didn't have this ability and just had a really high Listen skill modifier, it would be far less "super". See what I mean? It doesn't need to be maxed. It's already much better than skill points could ever make it.


    I understand wanting to make him useful in a campaign (i.e. not overpowered) but he at least has to be able to fly. Also if a Strength of 40 gives him the ability to lift 100 tons then an strong Wookie (Str 20) should be able to lift 50 tons. And also, in Superman Returns he lifts the Kryptonian Continent, that weighs millions of tons.

    He can fly... fast! :D
    He has a lifting Strenght of 65 as I wrote under his Super-Strength special quality. This enables him to lift around 100 tons.
    An average Wookie has a lifting strength of 14, which means he/she can lift 87.5 kg. As strong wookie like Chewie with a strength of 19 can lift 175 kg.
    Be careful with the spoilers :) hehe.
    A GM could rule that his lifting feat in Superman Returns is a combination of flight and strength, hence he can pick up double his heavy load, which overloads him and prevents him from doing anything other than fly straight up. Add that to the fact that a Force Point for Superman likely also could be used to enhance his lifting strength.
    Like the use of a Force Point to enhance Move Object.


  4. Koohii Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2003
    star 5
    hmmmm... that reminds me: Time to reread "Man of Steal, Woman of Klenex" again.
  5. MasterKazur Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2004
    star 3
    okay [face_plain]

    I take it you're unimpressed, Koohii?
  6. Koohii Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2003
    star 5
    On the contrary.

    The article I referenced was some SciFi geeks:-B in the 70s (I think it was Niven and Pournel) coming up with reasons why Lois Lane and Superman can never have children.[face_hypnotized] It's good for a giggle if you haven't read it already.

    I agree, by the way, with the levels being in "noble" rather than "soldier." Superman is smart, but not a martial artist or of military bent. I'm sure he's studied classical tactics and plays a mean game of chess, but most of his fighting prowess is related to his immense physical strength and near invulnerability. Or, that's what it seems like to me... [face_thinking]

    Besides, I haven't seen the new movie yet.
  7. MasterKazur Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2004
    star 3
    :) I think I'll check that out. Sounds fun.

    Glad you agree with me about Superman's levels.
    Superman is a smart fighter yes, but as you said he doesn't know how to fight especially well.
    His high attack bonus is most likely due to his speed. He is able to strike almost any person before they even have a chance to react. And with a guaranteed damage of 16 with a single punch we could take down anyone with a clean hit.
    When fighting multiple opponents with weapons that could hurt him, he will likely fight defensively, bringing his defense up to 20 (21 with his dodge feat against a particularly dangeroud opponent) and his attack bonus down to +19/+14, which is still very impressive for a level 12.
    And ofcourse he is able to really put all his power behind his punches with his power attack. He will most likely use this option when punching something with a high DR (like a space transport).
    Superman always seems to focus whenever he uses his heat-vision to make sure he hits and so fighting defensively probably won't work here. His attack bonus is really low (not really a fighter as we talked about ;) ) so his focus is most likely due to the fact that he uses the "aiming" option in the Hero's Guide book (page 133). He has the precise attack for the same reason; he doesn't wanna hit innocent bystanders or parts of the city/planet he is trying to protect.
  8. Jacen-Qel-Droma Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 21, 2006
    Very nice.
    Perhaps I´ll use it secretly if I ever run a campaign 4000 years before Yavin!!!!!!
  9. Fandomar Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2004
    Well I started making stats for Superman for the D20 system but it is even easier than that,
    There is a RPG Called DC Heroes which has been made it a long time ago but it,s a good system that used only 2d10sided dice (I thnik the best part of this game is the character stats for nearly all the superheroes from DC specially the justice league)

    Ok wizards of the coast produced a game called mutants & Masterminds based on the d20 system it is the more updated game but it is not based on neither the marvel or the DC Universe but I think it is the best system to understand because it,s d20.

    Also there is the Marvel Heroes rpg it has more powers than the DC it also uses the d10 sided dice the good thing about this system it,s that they ar more simple because they use less tables than that of d20 you can check out the marvel system here www.classicmarvel.com (there you can download all the game books and they,ve in a section stats for both heroes 6 villains from the marvel and DC universe in the marvel system










  10. MasterKazur Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2004
    star 3
    Hey Fandomar.
    Thanks for the info.
    I did however know it all already.
    Me and me friends sometimes play Mutants and Masterminds, but we find Star Wars more satisfying :).
    The M&M system has some good things in it, and it fits very well with the Comic book world and that style of playing.
    The Marvel RPG never really caught my interrest. I seemed much too "open".
    A round in Marvel would be something like this:
    *ahem*

    Gamemaster: okay you're Spiderman. You're swinging around town when you see a dog about to be run over by a truck. What do you do?
    Player: I will try to save the dog.
    Gamemaster: Okay. Roll the dice.
    Player: (rolls the dice)
    Gamemaster: You succeed. Next round.

    You know what I mean? :)
    In Star Wars RPG there are rules for how fast you can move, your distance from the dog, the speed of the truck ect.
    Compared to Marvel and in some cases also Mutants & Masterminds, Star Wars is more realistic and have much more advanced rules IMO.

    This is a Superman that can do all the things that you expect Superman to be able to do, while still keeping him "realistic" in the confines of the Star Wars RPG.

  11. Koohii Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2003
    star 5
    Don't forget the ultimate in rules, situational modifiers, and tortuous cross-references: Champions! The game of choice for munchkins everywere.:rolleyes:
  12. dizfactor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2002
    star 5
    That's still not good enough. He can hear a butterfly's heartbeat on the other side of the planet without trouble. Maybe +1 DC per 400 km, if not more.

    You understand that commercially available construction cranes can lift that much or more, right?

    That's waaaay underpowered for Superman.
  13. Fandomar Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2004
    Well I agree that some of the rules are too coplicated I didn,t finished learning all rules but It fits for a Superheros rpg specially like I said before the Superheroes stats the marvel rpg is too open it,s true if you have a good rule in the dice yuou could have reality alteration or things like that, but the DC is more balanced It gives a system of buying the powers and atributes with Hero points but It bothers me that there,re good campaings book In the DC Heroes system and Star Wars only has two campaigns book (although we have the downloadable adventures I think is not enough)
  14. JudroBathens Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2002
    star 1
    Hmm. A nice attempt, but I don't think the Star Wars system really lends itself to high-powered superhero types (in the comic book sense). I think this version of Superman might start to cover the power level, roughly, of Superman in his earliest appearances: much faster, stronger, and tougher than a normal human... but in terms of Superman as he is understood today (including in Superman Returns, where he was very very powerful), I think the scope of the game system falls short.

    Someone upthread mentioned the old DC Heroes game from Mayfair. I always liked that system, mainly because of its broad scope... you can fit Superman and Jimmy Olsen on the same scale and still have the numbers end up pretty manageable. And you can get a fair range of potential abilities on the human end of the scale, so that Batman is vastly more capable than Jimmy Olsen... but you can still have Superman up on the higher end of the spectrum and able to lift, say, continents. :)
  15. MasterKazur Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2004
    star 3
    That's still not good enough. He can hear a butterfly's heartbeat on the other side of the planet without trouble. Maybe +1 DC per 400 km, if not more.

    Maybe. But that is more in line with the Pre-Crisis Superman, I think.
    For now, I believe this is more accurate (and more balanced game-wise for that matter).

    You understand that commercially available construction cranes can lift that much or more, right?

    That's waaaay underpowered for Superman.


    Not really. Superman isn't stronger than anything in the entire universe.
    That would make him God :) Nothing would challenge him.
    Besides his absolute maximum cap isn't 100 tons. This is just what he can lift without a fuss. This Superman is capable of lifting 200 tons off the ground, and with Force Points, much, much more than that.
    The lifting feat he does in Superman Returns isn't something he does everyday. He was pushed to his absolute limit and it nearly killed him.

    but in fallsterms of Superman as he is understood today (including in Superman Returns, where he was very very powerful), I think the scope of the game system short.

    The Superman Returns Superman is waaaaayyyyy less Powerful than the Superman "as he is understood today". The Christopher Reeve Superman is much closer to the Comic book version (the actual Superman).
    In Superman: The Movie, Superman flew so fast that he reversed the rotation of the earth.
    In Superman Returns, Superman's top speed seems to be about 400 km/h, give or take 50 km/h.

    In Superman: The Movie, Superman saves a plane by putting one hand on it.
    In Superman Returns he really struggles to stop a much smaller plane.

    In Superman IV: The Quest for Peace, Superman moves the moon without so much as breaking a sweat.
    In Superman Returns he moves the Kryptonia Continent, something that weighs far less, and it nearly kills him.


    For all you Super-Superman fans ;) I will make a Superman much more in line with the Comic book version. He will be much more powerful than this version, but for now I believe this version fits very well if not dead-on with the Superman of Superman Returns.


  16. Rogue_Thunder FanForce CR, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

    Chapter Rep
    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2003
    star 6
    I've gotta agree with MasterKazur. I even recall Bryan Singer mentioning in the Science of Superman that he tried purposely to tone down Superman's powers in this movie, to make everything a bit more of a challenge to him.
  17. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    It's not that Superman was viewed as "weaker" in this film, it's that physics of everything AROUND Superman is treated as perceptually more real.

    In S:tM, Reeve's Superman saves Air Force One by flying it with one hand. Compounded, it hadn't really started to crash yet meaning that it's flight velocity was generally unchanged.

    In SR, Routh's Superman saves a massie shuttle-carrier which has already started descent at, likely, terminal velocity. Sure, Superman COULD have simply stopped the plane (as is evidenced by the fact that he simply rips the wing off without effort while trying to slow it down), but if he did so everyone inside would have been crushed by the sudden impact.

    For counterpoint: take a look at SII where Reeve's Superman tries to stop a bus thrown at him full of people. He doesn't simply STOP it, he tried to slow it down and got creamed into a Marlboro truck.
  18. MasterKazur Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2004
    star 3
    I've gotta agree with MasterKazur. I even recall Bryan Singer mentioning in the Science of Superman that he tried purposely to tone down Superman's powers in this movie, to make everything a bit more of a challenge to him.

    Thank you :).
    Routh's Superman is less powerful yes, as Bryan Singer himself puts it. I for one, like Singer's version of Superman.

    It's not that Superman was viewed as "weaker" in this film, it's that physics of everything AROUND Superman is treated as perceptually more real.

    In some ways thats the same thing.
    Superman's powers don't hold up against "real" physics as much as comic book physics. Hence: he is less powerful.

    In S:tM, Reeve's Superman saves Air Force One by flying it with one hand. Compounded, it hadn't really started to crash yet meaning that it's flight velocity was generally unchanged.

    In SR, Routh's Superman saves a massie shuttle-carrier which has already started descent at, likely, terminal velocity. Sure, Superman COULD have simply stopped the plane (as is evidenced by the fact that he simply rips the wing off without effort while trying to slow it down), but if he did so everyone inside would have been crushed by the sudden impact.


    Yes thats true, the plane hadn't really started to crash yet.
    But keep in mind that Airforce One is a bigger plane and that Christopher Reeve's Superman likely could have stopped the plane in Superman Returns much easier than Routh's as his Strenght is obviously much greater.
    This sentece here I think responds well to your next point.
    but if he did so everyone inside would have been crushed by the sudden impact

    take a look at SII where Reeve's Superman tries to stop a bus thrown at him full of people. He doesn't simply STOP it, he tried to slow it down and got creamed into a Marlboro truck.

    See what I mean? ;)
    The truck was thrown at him by two people rivaling him in strength. Had he simply stopped it dead on, the bus would have been crushed like a grape and all the people would have died (as you yourself said).
    I think it is safe to assume that Superman's intent was to slow down the bus.
    But if simply stopping the bus was his intention: he would have done so.
    He can move the moon. A bus isn't gonna be a problem for him. He was protecting the people inside the bus, by slowing it down.
    See Superman II, where Clark is hit by a car. He doesn't even flinch and the car is destroyed. In Superman Returns when Supes is hit by the broken wing he goes flying backwards.

    I don't really think there is anybody out there that can really claim that Routh's Superman is more powerful than Reeve's.
    Bryan Singer himself states that this is not the case and infact the opposite was the intention.

    Anyway, my Reeve/Comic Superman is done now... :)
    Will post it in a minute.
  19. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    Shuttle Carrier (current):

    Span: 195 feet, 8 inches (59.67m)
    Length: 231 feet, 10 inches (70.67m)
    Cruise: 288 mph (463km/h; Mach 0.39)
    Max Weight: 713,000 pounds (323,411kg)

    Air Force One

    Actually identical to above except:
    Max Weight: 833,000 pounds (374,850kg)

    The shuttle-carrier in the new Superman film, by comparison, MUST be larger and heavier than the current shuttle-carrier simply due to two facts:

    1) The shuttle in the film was larger than modern day space shuttles.
    2) The current shuttle carriers have no passenger service whatsoever (basic crew of four) [AF1, by comparison, hosts 73 passengers]

    And I'm not quite certain how you think you proved something that I didn't prove using the SII/SR comparison which I used.
  20. MasterKazur Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2004
    star 3
    [image=http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/041011/041011_reeve_superman_vmed.widec.jpg]

    Superman: Male Kryptonian Fringer 2/Scout 3/Noble 9; Init +0 (Dex); Defense 18 (+8 class, +0 Dex); DR 25; Spd 700 m, flight 1750 m; VP/WP 191/30; Atk +29/+24 melee (1d3+20, unarmed) or +9/+4 ranged (4d8, heat-vision); SQ Bonus class skill (Bluff), barter, trailblazing, heart +1, favor +3, inspire confidence, resource access, coordinate +2, invulnerability, heat-vision, speed, leaping, super-senses, x-ray vision, super-strength, hyper-breath, immunity, weaknesses; SV Fort +18, Ref +8, Will +13; SZ M; FP 5; DSP 0; Rep +6; Str 50, Dex 10, Con 30, Int 14, Wis 16, Cha 20.
    Equipment: Costume and cape.
    Skill: Bluff +10, Diplomacy +13, Gather Information +11, Handle Animal +9, Intimidate +10, Knowledge (bureaucracy) +7, Knowledge (history) +6, Listen +11, Pilot +2, Profession (farmer) +4, Profession (journalist) +12, Read/Write All Languages, Speak All Languages, Search +11, Sense Motive +14, Spot +11.
    Feats: Dodge, Endurance, Fame, Iron Will, Perfect Memory, Power Attack, Precise Shot, Sharp-Eyed, Trustworthy, Weapon Group Proficiencies (blaster pistols, blaster rifles, primitive weapons, simple weapons).

    Special Qualities: Invulnerability - - Superman?s dense Kryptonian body provides him with a damage reduction of 25.

    Heat-Vision - - Superman can emit his body's stores of solar radiation through his eyes causing 4d8 damage.

    Speed - - Superman is able to defy gravity and fly at 4250 km/h (72 squares/action) in atmosphere and Ramming (28 squares/action) in space. His running speed is 1700 km/h (700 m/action).

    Leaping - - Superman is able to leap great distances in a single bound. Multiply his jump distance by 250 to get his total distance jumped.

    Super-Senses - - When Superman makes Listen or Spot checks the DC for the check is at +1 per 4 kilometers from him, rather than the usual 4 meters. His super-hearing also enables him to hear ultrasonic signals and high and low frequencies.

    X-Ray Vision - - Superman can see through solid objects (except lead) as if they weren?t there. He can make Search and Spot checks through walls, doors ect. The DC for his Spot checks is still modified by distance.

    Super-Strength - - Superman has a Strength of 90 for purposes of lifting objects and a +8 bonus to his Grappling checks and Strengths checks for purposes of breaking items.

    Hyper-Breath - - Superman can exhale a powerful blast of air, making a Strength check to trip targets within 65 meters of his position.

    Immunity - - Superman has a great resistance to Heat, Cold, Disease, Corrosives, Toxins and Radiation.
    Therefor any kind of attack (natural or otherwise) that would require Superman to make a Fortitude save deals only half damage.

    Weaknesses: Magic - - Magical attacks directly effect Superman ignoring his invulnerabilities. Against Magic attacks Superman loses his damage reduction and his immunity power.

    Kryptonite - - Exposure to Kryptonite causes Superman?s cells to deteriorate, similar to radiation poisoning in a human being. Kryptonite causes Superman to lose all of his powers and his Strength drops to 12 and his Constitution drops to 14 (VP/WP 79/14).
    Every 10 rounds of exposure Superman must make a Fortitude save DC 18. The damage on a successful save is a 1d2 drain on his Constitution and a 1d3 drain on his Strength. The damage on a failed save is a 1d6 drain on his Constitution, a 1d4 drain on his Strength and a 1d2 drain on his Charisma. This effect will eventually kill Superman when his Constitution score drops to 0.
    Removal of the Kryptonite returns Superman?s powers and enables his body to regain lost Ability Points at a rate of one per round.


    Here is the comic book version of Superman.
    Gave him 2 more levels of Noble so he is now a level 14, fairly good for someone in his late 20s, early 30s.
    This version is much more powerful, overall, than the Super
  21. MasterKazur Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2004
    star 3
    Great, so we can agree that Air Force One is heavier.
    Or at least as heavy.

    And I'm not quite certain how you think you proved something that I didn't prove using the SII/SR comparison which I used.

    Okay, then try reading it a couple of more times then. :)

  22. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    Ummmm, no and no.
  23. MasterKazur Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2004
    star 3
    Ummmm, no and no.

    So dispite the fact that Air Force One actually is heavier you still won't agree.
    Okay, thats cool :).
    We can agree to disagree, then? Fair enough?
    [:D]
  24. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    AF1 is heavier than a CURRENT shuttle-carrier (which I said) and the shuttle-carrier in the movie is, by definition, heavier than the current shuttle carrier (which I said) for the reasons I said it.

    So no and no.
  25. MasterKazur Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2004
    star 3
    Guess not o_O

    The shuttle-carrier in the new Superman film, by comparison, MUST be larger and heavier than the current shuttle-carrier simply due to two facts:

    I understand that it MUST be larger and heavier, because that would mean you're right :D, but let's look at your facts.

    1) The shuttle in the film was larger than modern day space shuttles.

    Yes, but that doesn't mean that the carrier has to any bigger or heavier.
    Fx. they have cranes now that can lift 10 times more than the old ones, which were much bigger... and heavier. I understand where you're coming from, but this is hardly a undeniable fact.
    Fact is that stuff like engine quality of the carrier is a much bigger factor here.

    2) The current shuttle carriers have no passenger service whatsoever (basic crew of four) [AF1, by comparison, hosts 73 passengers]

    Yes, and that would just about account for the 50 tons of weight that the Air Force One beats the 777 by.
    And you still won't even consider the possibility that they're equally heavy? :)
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