The Man of Steel

Discussion in 'Games: RPG & Miniatures' started by MasterKazur, Jul 22, 2006.

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  1. MasterKazur Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2004
    star 3
    For example, I believe someone said that Kryptonnite robs Superman of his powers. For the most part, that's not the case.

    Yes, it is actually :)

    A good example of this inconsistency is that he is rendered powerless when confronting Lex Luthor on the Kryptonite continent, and yet later on is still capable of heaving it into outer space despite the fact that the entire continent consists mostly of (if not entirely of) Kryptonite.

    Well I think inconsistency is the key word there.
    Like I said in an earlier post, he could have used a Force Point to shrug off effects of kryptonite while doing the lifting feat at the end of Returns.
    In the Mutants & Masterminds game it is explained that Superman spent his Hero Points (Force Points in that system) and used all the options in the game that enhances your abilities (in this case strength) and in doing so dropped himself to a dying state.

    I would also like to clarify that he does not nearly die from overexhaustion ... he nearly dies from overexposure to Kryptonite.


    This is speculation, not fact I'm afraid. But yes the kryptonite did factor in but it wasn't just kryptonite that nearly killed him. The fall back to earth after the lift is also a MAJOR factor.
    I don't know if you have seen Spider-Man 2 but a similar situation unfolds in that movie when Spider-Man stops the train.
    You can pass out and die from overexhaustion.

    Back to the subject of inconsistency, the same can be said about his powers. In some cases he has trouble lifting an airplane; in others he can move entire planets without much effort. In some cases he can outrun bullets; in others he can move faster than the speed of light.


    Thats the case with all comic book characters. But that still doesn't change the fact that you can divide his power levels into time periods (golden age, pre-crisis ect).
    Anyone who knows even the slightest bit about Superman (or any comic book character), knows this. Yes, his power isn't always consistent with the previous issue for example, but "power periods" do exist. The current Superman isn't nearly as powerful as Pre-crisis, and the Golden Age isn't nearly as powerful as the current.:)
    But there is really no need to debate this, as it is pretty much comic book lore.

    Regardless, however, it is a general fact that he is one of the most powerful beings in the known (DC) universe.

    This is completely true :D.
    In the marvel universe too IMO.
    Only very few, non-cosmic, beings can match his power.



  2. DARTH_MARK-22 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2003
    star 3
    For example, I believe someone said that Kryptonnite robs Superman of his powers. For the most part, that's not the case.

    Yes, it is actually

    Wow. You know what you should read? Comic books!

    Superman is not always rendered powerless by Kryptonite. In fact, he is rarely rendered powerless by Kryptonite. I've seen him crunch metal when exposed to Kryptonite. I've seen bullets bounce off him. I've seen him use his heat vision, his super-breath, his x-ray vision and his super hearing while exposed to Kryptonite.
  3. MasterKazur Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2004
    star 3
    Wow. You know what you should read? Comic books!

    Superman is not always rendered powerless by Kryptonite. In fact, he is rarely rendered powerless by Kryptonite. I've seen him crunch metal when exposed to Kryptonite. I've seen bullets bounce off him. I've seen him use his heat vision, his super-breath, his x-ray vision and his super hearing while exposed to Kryptonite.



    Wow. You know what you should see? Look up in the sky!

    ... a documentary in which the creators of Superman Siegel and Shuster make it clear that Superman loses his Powers when he comes within 10 feet of kryptonite. There is even an audio clip from the old radio show where this is first introduced.
    And besides you actually mis-quoted me. I didn't say that he never loses his powers when exposed to Kryptonite. Someone said that losing them wasn't the case for the most part... and then I said it was. :D
    Swing and a miss, eh?
    So please refrain from throwing anymore "funny" little comments my way, without having properly read what I have previously posted.
    At the very least, it makes you look like a fool :) No offence.

    But you're right. Sometimes he doesn't lose his powers when exposed to Kryptonite.
    It differs from each issue, but the official description of Green Kryptonite is that it, among other things, robs him of his powers.
    Comic books are filled with these little variations.
    Take Juggernaut for example. He is also totally immune to physical harm. Yet Superman, the Hulk and Unslaught have all hurt him using nothing but their bare hands.
    But I didn't give Superman a "hurt Juggernaut" feat, because these stats are based on what's "normal" for Superman.
    Hence, he loses his powers when exposed to kryptonite, because this is the usual senario.

    But who knows, maybe it depends on each individual chunk of Kryptonite (size, distance ect).
    But I doubt it ;)
  4. DARTH_MARK-22 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2003
    star 3
    Fair enough.

    And as I've stated before, a lot of things have been inconsistent with Superman over the years. I agree with this. Sure, Kryptonite originally robbed Superman of his powers. But he was originally only able to leap over tall buildings.

    As a matter of fact, I did see the "Look up in the Sky" documentary. It said that Kryptonite was conceived by the producers of the Superman radio show so that the voice-actor who did the voice of Clark Kent/Superman, Bud Collyer, could take a vacation. For those two weeks, all the audience heard from Superman was an occasional groan.

    Kryptonite was described as "the only substance that can harm/kill Superman." And that is primarily what Kryptonite does to Superman. It causes him pain, destabalizing his metabolism and effectively rendering him sick. If fashioned into a weapon (such as a sword or a bullet), it can penetrate his skin. Enormous amount of evidence shows Superman still having his powers while exposed to Kryptonite.

    But again, the effects of Kryptonite, like the extent of Superman's powers, depend on the plot.

    But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. In rare, rare occasions (we're talking once or twice here), I have seen Superman rendered powerless by Kryptonite. During these occasions, it is either his first time being exposed to Kryptonite or after a prolonged period of not being exposed to Kryptonite (such as his five-year absence before Superman Returns.) It has been theorized that Superman is developing a slow but gradual resistance to Kryptonite.
  5. MasterKazur Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2004
    star 3
    Kryptonite was described as "the only substance that can harm/kill Superman."

    You forgot to add the part where they said: "Superman is horrified to discover that when he comes within 10 feet of this substance, he loses all of his strength" :D

    Enormous amount of evidence shows Superman still having his powers while exposed to Kryptonite.


    And an even more enormous amount of evidence shows that he doesn't :)
    For one, everyone on the Mutants & Masterminds (real hard-core comic neards :-B... but in the good way) all agree that he loses his powers.

    But again, the effects of Kryptonite, like the extent of Superman's powers, depend on the plot.

    I agree with this, somewhat.

    In rare, rare occasions (we're talking once or twice here), I have seen Superman rendered powerless by Kryptonite.

    I'm sorry, but I can't even take this seriously.
    Forgot comics for a sec... Have you ever seen Superman I or Smallville?
    Think about it ;)
  6. Blithe Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2003
    star 4
    Well, finally back to see the Pre-Crisis Supes. Sorry that I haven't commented on them yet, Kazur. I've been tied up IRL with school and the like.

    I like them, though! I think they're very accurate, actually. Though I didn't even realize myself that Pre-Crisis Superman could fly 25 times the speed of light. ;)

    Essentially, the only thing that can stand against Pre-C Superman is... err, a DBZ character. :p
  7. MasterKazur Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2004
    star 3
    Hey Blithe.
    Better late than never, my friend :).
    Really glad you like them. He is able to fly in 25 times the speed of light in space only. So he doesn't even need a rocketship to go to lightspeed... and beyond. Hehe.

    Ahh, the age old Superman vs Goku discussion. Thats a whole new thread :D
    But for the record, my money is on Supes.
  8. Koohii Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2003
    star 5
    Don't forget, folks, that there are many different types of Kryptonite. Some weaken him, some are enough to kill him, some mutate him in freeky ways, and some heal him.

    I remember my hanna barbara cartoons!
  9. Blithe Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2003
    star 4
    Since I'm worried somebody might get agitated if we bring up DBZ too much (:p), I'll be brief, but there's actually evidence in the manga that points to DBZ characters not even being able to travel at the speed of light until they're upwards of SSJ3; however, the creator, Akira Toriyama, did say they were upwards of lightspeed toward the end.

    As for strength, the Saiyans can probably keep up with Superman as early as SSJ2, if not earlier, but he's got them beat on speed, and the fact he can survive in space. Only Goku would have a chance, and even then, it's only because he has the advantage of his teleport, which is what he'd need to probably keep up with Superman because it's instant, unless of course, you consider SSJ4.

    Certain fusions, I'd imagine, could stand a reasonable chance.

    SSJ-powered Ki waves would certainly be able to damage Superman, though. But they'd first need to acutally HIT him. ;)

    Hence why only Goku with teleport could possibly have a chance at landing and energy blast outside of the fusions.
  10. MasterKazur Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2004
    star 3
    I wholeheartedly agree :D
    Granted my knowledge of DBZ isn't as wide and my knowledge of Star Wars and Superman.
    I reckon Goku would be more of a match for Superman than Thor would. He may even beat the Man of Steel once or twice... But for obvious reasons, I think Superman is more powerful all around.
  11. Koohii Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2003
    star 5
    Don't forget to pick up your DC comic Super Hero stamps at the post office. There are 2 Superman & 2 Sutergirl stamps in the set. =P~

    No kryptonite included, but since Kryptonite is not dangerous to humans (unless it is falling out of the sky), you evil geniuses out there can honestly tell the post office you aren't shipping anything fragile, liquid, perishible, or hazardous when you send Superman that wonderful souvenier.:D
  12. Blithe Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2003
    star 4
    Oh, yeah, if you consider villains in the mix, one of the stronger forms of Majin Buu, like Buu with Gohan, Goten, Trunks, and Piccolo absorbed would do better than even Goku, since Buu can learn moves just by seeing it once and can survive in space, regenerate, as well as being able to teleport without having to sense Ki, and use magic, which Supes is vunerable to and just being, overall, around 3-4 times as powerful as Goku. :p

    But if you did that, we'd need to bring in Doomsday, so it's probably not for the best. ;)
  13. MasterKazur Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2004
    star 3
    You're right about that Blithe :)
    You don't wanna mess with Doomsday!

    As far as Superman vs DBZ:
    DBZ is a totally different style than DC... You can't really compare the two I think.
    But I see your point.
    Viewed from the outside Goku and the others seem more powerful, because DBZ is just so "out-there" that their powers need to be that too.
    But Superman always finds a way! :)
    Even against stronger and more powerful opponenets (like Doomsday)

    Long live the Man of Steel!
  14. Koohii Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2003
    star 5
    Here's a question:
    The old superman's hair had a lock that sort of curled down right in the middle of his forehead. It was almost as much a trademark of his look as the big S on his chest.
    The only time I get anything like that is when I don't blow-dry my hair, but rather let it dripdry.
    So, did superman not use a blow-dryer? OK, way back when, maybe not. But what about when he's flying at those super-heroic speeds. Wouldn't that dry his hair? If so, then he wouldn't have the curl.

    ???

    OK, I have WAYYYY too much time on my hands...
  15. MasterKazur Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2004
    star 3
    He's got Super-HAIR too...
    It does whatever he wants it to :D
    Clark never has a bad hair-day.
  16. NJOfan215 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2003
    star 5
    kazur, you've enpired me, i'm working on some wolverine stats.
  17. MasterKazur Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2004
    star 3
    Nice! :)
    Can't wait to see them... You can post 'em here.
    This could be the official non-Star Wars character stats... thread... page. Whatever!:D
  18. NJOfan215 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2003
    star 5
    cool i'm having a little stumbling block figuring out exactly what classes and levels he should have. He's such a diverse character. I think i'm going to end up tweaking some of them in order to get the right fit.
  19. NJOfan215 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2003
    star 5
    Wolverine: Male Human Mutant Soldier 10/ Scoundrel 2/Nobel 3/ elite trooper 5; Init +3 (Dex); Defense 26 (+11 class, +3 Dex, +2 Defensive Martial Arts); DR 8; Spd 10 m; VP/WP 336/30; Atk +27/+22/+17/+12 melee (1d6+3d4+12/18-20, Claws), +26/+26/+21/+21/+16 melee (1d6+3d4+12/18-20, Claws), or +22/+17/+12/+7 ranged (2d6/20, Glock) or +22/+17/+12/+7 ranged (2d8/20, HK MP5) or +21/+16/+11/+6 ranged (2d10/20, M60); SQ fame, favor +2, Illicit barter, Inspire confidence, lucky (1/day), resource access, super powers, uncanny dodge (dex) SV Fort +22, Ref +17, Will +15; SZ M; FP 2; DSP 10; Rep +9; Str 24, Dex 16, Con 30, Int 15, Wis 16, Cha 12.

    Equipment: Leather Costume, M-60, HK MP5 (+1), Glock 17 (+1)

    Skills: Balance +19, Bluff +9, Climb +15, Computer Use +15, Craft (Fire Arms) + 10, Demolitions +18, Disable Device +18, Disguise +17, Gather Information +16, Hide +13, Intimidate +21, Jump +23, Knowledge (Tactics) +10, Knowledge (Streetwise) +10, Knowledge (Mutants) +8, Knowledge (bureaucracy) + 6, Knowledge (Japan) +10, Listen +21, Move Silently +19, Read/Write English, Japanese, Russian, Repair +18, Search +19, Sense Motive +19, Spot +26, Survival +15, Treat Injury +5, Tumble +18, Speak English, Japanese, Russian.

    Feats: Advanced Martial Arts, Ambidexterity, Armor Proficiency (light, medium, heavy, powered), Combat Experience, Combat Reflexes, Defensive Martial Arts, Dodge, Improved Martial Arts, Head Strong Improved Two-Weapon fighting, Martial Artist, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Track, Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (claws), Weapon Group Proficiency (blaster pistols, blaster rifles, heavy weapons, simple weapons, vibroweapons), Weapon Specialization (claws).

    Super Powers: Alerness, Claws (+3), Endurance, Healing Factor, Lightning Reflexes, Low-Light Vision, Rage, Scent, Skeletal Reinforcement (+3), Ultra-Immune System.

    Claws ? Wolverine?s claws are attached, which grants him a +1 bonus to his attack roles and allows him to stack unarmed damage with them. They do 1d6+3 damage, and are considered master craft items.

    Healing Factor ? Once per day per level, Wolverine can heal himself of a number of points of damage up to twice his constitution modifier.
  20. MasterKazur Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2004
    star 3
    :eek:

    Hmm... You might wanna consider cutting about half of his levels away.

  21. NJOfan215 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2003
    star 5
    No way, he's over 200 years old. The guys been around. He was a soldier in world war two, a spy, a shield agent, and x-men, an avenger, and just plane wolverine.
  22. Koohii Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2003
    star 5
    As always, it depends what version of the character you're looking at. Is it the Movie version, or one of the many comic versions. Unfortunately, Marvel likes to rewrite it's history every 5 years or so, which makes it very difficult to have anything like consistancy or stability. They also have an ever-changing pool of writers, not just one who takes over from another, who takes over from another.

    :-B
  23. NJOfan215 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2003
    star 5
    Yeah this is defintiely a comic book version, not the movie wolverine. It was really difficult trying to find a way to represent him. I consult the mravel.com wiki, and the marvel database wiki as well as thinking about and rereading some of the wolverine comics i've read. This version of wolverine is basicaly based off of wolverine origins, the current volume of wolverine's monthly book, morrisons run on new x-men, astonishing x-men, milligen run on x-men, and new avengers. Wolverine is obviously a soldier. His levels of nobel come from 3 different factors, one he does inspire confidence in some of the younger x men, he does have access to resources, and we've seen him call in a favor before. His level of scoundral comes from rucka's run on his monthly sereis, where we see wolverine investigating things and making an illicit barter with a weapons dealer.
  24. MasterKazur Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2004
    star 3
    Never the less, level 20 is waaaaaaayyy to much.
    Thats Yoda and Palpatine level.
    Wolverine, over 200 years old or not, is about a level 10-11 en terms of skill and battle prowess.
    Keep in mind that he doesn't even remember that much from his past. So the stuff he has learned is pretty much useless to him. Useless maybe a strong word but
    all in all Wolverine has the experience of a 35 yr. old man (approx) with flashes of lost wisdom and stuff popping up here and there when he remembers something from his past.
    He is at most a level 12.
    That would also be balanced within the game.
    Making Wolverine a level 20 is like saying that he is among the top 10 most powerful beings in the galaxy... ever! [face_shame_on_you]
    Thats just not true.
    I will make my own Wolverine later. We can compare notes :)



  25. NJOfan215 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2003
    star 5
    You have not been reading the current comics, wolverine has all of his memories back, thanks to the scarlet witch. If it weren't for that, i can defintely see him being like level 12 or so, but he's been pretty much consistantly fighting for 60 years of his life. The first 140 years is still pretty thinly covered, but i'm still going to disagree with you here. Based on the 60 years of fighting experiance he has, he is just as experianced as mace windu, who is level 19.I do tend to make high powered NPC's but in a lot of cases, especialy this one, i did base it on solid research. That being said, we are both entitled to our own versions of him.
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