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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST The map to Luke Skywalker...isnt a map to Luke Skywalker.

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Argalin, Dec 22, 2015.

  1. Bacbacca

    Bacbacca Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2011
    They should've explained this in the movie.
    Not everyone is going to be in a board trying to figure out all of this.
     
    DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR likes this.
  2. ShaneP

    ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001

    I didn't. Look at my posts and I put this up from the get go. Really, it's not that confusing. If you don't know how to get there you don't even know where there is. You don't know the galactic context of where everything sits in relation to each other. It could be one system over for all they know.That's why they need both pieces. Only then will they understand the destination in relation to everything else.
     
  3. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR

    DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2002
    Right, but it doesn't say why they don't have the missing piece, though. Did Tek Lor San, or whatever his name is, steal it from them? If that's the case, then why does Artoo, who's been in sleep mode for however long, have the same map file with the exact same missing piece? It doesn't hold up.
     
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  4. Ghost_Jedi

    Ghost_Jedi Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2003


    I agree with this theory. Lor was probably waiting for Rey to be ready.
     
  5. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR

    DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2002
    But Lor said he searched for a long time to find the missing map file, so your theory doesn't make sense.
     
  6. Breebel

    Breebel Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 4, 2012
    The red markers are waypoints on a Jedi pilgrimage to the first Jedi temple. My theory is that when Yoda and Obi Wan were in the Jedi archives in Revenge of the Sith, they removed the location of the last point of the pilgrimage, so that the secrets of the Jedi were protected from the Empire. That is why Luke is so anxious to find it - his first attempt at restoring the Jedi order failed so he was looking for enlightenment. The imagery of Rey walking up the steps on the island is meant to symbolize the ascent of a Jedi Knight who had undertaken the spiritually enlightening journey of the pilgrimage to becoming a fully fledged Jedi Master. Snoke doesn't care if the map is destroyed, because he doesn't know that R2 downloaded the other part of the map from the Death Star mainframe. Without the starting point of the journey, the piece that BB-8 had was useless, and he knew that. Think Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.
     
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  7. Devizz

    Devizz Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 30, 2014
    Yes, of course it is a map that leads to the first jedi temple and not Luke Skywalker himself. It is made pretty clear during the conversation between Han, Rey and Finn that you mentioned. I don't think a map to an actual person would make much sense. :p
     
  8. Jedirush2112

    Jedirush2112 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2013
    I somewhat in agreement with you. However, Lor was on the same planet that Rey was on. I truly believe that he was there to keep watch over Rey as Obi-wan did over Luke. I think Luke gave the map to Lor to one day hand to Rey once she was ready to receive it. But things got out of hand once the First Order started to rise and take over. Hence he contacted Leia to have the missing piece of the map picked up by Poe. In order to keep it out of the hands of Kylo. Anyway that's how I see it.
     
    Lobot_the_Jedi likes this.
  9. jofos

    jofos Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2015
    He was looking for the missing piece it was inside R2
     
  10. Argalin

    Argalin Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2015
    Ya know, I hadn't even thought of the fact that Lor was on the same planet as Rey oddly enough. There must be more to that, nicely done.
     
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  11. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR

    DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2002
    No one's disputing that...we're saying that the map storyline isn't fleshed out right.
     
  12. EviL_eLF

    EviL_eLF Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 16, 2003
    You obviously missed the point. That was smuggler Han. The Han that joined the alliance and the one helping Rey and Finn escape is the... I'll do anything to help my friends survive Han...which was why he came back to the Death Star against his own advice even.
     
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  13. Darth Damo

    Darth Damo Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 1999
    You are all looking at the map as if it is a two dimensional one. It could literally go in any direction in space as it is a 3D environment. It would take years and years to find that place even if they had the part R2 had simply because it is about 1/16th of the galaxy. It is an absolutely huge place.

    The real issue is that now Kylo Ren knows (although he doesn't know that he knows it) what kind of Planet Luke is on because when he interrogates Rey he says that he can see the water planet and the Island... Will he have a moment when he can turn to someone and say something like... "This is the quadrant of space we are searching. Look for a water planet with and Island."
     
  14. james92rogers

    james92rogers Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2015



    The waypoints are on BB-8's map too if you look for them.

    I always saw the waypoints as the previous locations of Jedi temples. The line resembles the journey of travelling back to find the eldest one. Abrams has said in an interview the map R2 has is from the death star and is a map of the previous Jedi temple locations so that is how I saw it.

    The one thing I did not get is if the First Order has all but one little part of the map, and it is to be assumed Luke is in that bit, then surely that is the area you would send your troops to try and find him
     
  15. Skillzwalker

    Skillzwalker Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 24, 2015
    Lor San tekka obviously removed that part of the map from Imperial databases when he defected. His story is important. Luke went off to search for the 1st jedi temple but would of had no map, he would not need it, the force would guide him so he does not have anything to do with the map IMO.

    LST was an ex-imperial commander or similar, he is the one who knew of its existence and removed it from Imperial/empire records. He decides to pass on to the resistance in a show of loyalty, hence, the first words.... this will begin to put things right.

    He realised its importance and he had decide where his loyalties lied and passed it on before meeting his destiny
     
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  16. Skillzwalker

    Skillzwalker Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 24, 2015
     
  17. Skillzwalker

    Skillzwalker Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 24, 2015

    Totally agree about the REAL jedi path. In the PT they had lost their way by their own admission in that they ended up being servants to a corrupt govt. Very interested to see what Lukes final decision is on the path of a Jedi.
     
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  18. titansupes

    titansupes Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Oct 30, 2013

    Artoo didn't have a missing piece. He had compiled the rest--

    -- On the Death Star I, Artoo downloads the Imperial archives. Tons of information, including the Hyperspace route the First Jedi Temple. Artoo doesn't know this yet.
    -- Decades later, Luke vanishes out of guilt and goes on a soul searching mission (we think). The rumour is, he's searching for the First Jedi Temple.
    -- When Luke leaves, Artoo (without telling anyone) goes into low-power mode and compiles the Imperial Archive information, searching for the location.
    -- The First Order, going through the same archives, have the same large part of the map that Artoo has. Both are missing the key and final piece.
    -- Lor San Tekka has the missing piece (we don't know how yet, but the movie clearly shows he has a connection to Luke/Leia/Ben. And the Visual Dictionary says he was an explorer who basically worshiped the Jedi) and when the need for Luke is dire, he contacts Leia. Leia sends Poe to retrieve the map.
    -- The First Order have discovered Lor has the missing piece. Perhaps through spies (like in Maz's castle), or intercepting a transmission... Or even based on something Kylo himself knows (he and Lor clearly knew each other well before Kylo fell to the Dark Side). Maybe they compiled the data, realised a piece was missing and Kylo took a punt that payed off.
    -- When BB-8 (with the missing piece) arrives at the base, he bumps into Artoo. I think his beeps are basically, as Abrams said, "Hey, I have this bit of map. Do you know where the rest is?". Threepio overhears, and explains that he believes it unlikely that Artoo has the data. Little does he know... Artoo (remember, he's in low-power mode, not outright shut off) hears this, and begins booting up, having in-fact recovered most of the map.
    -- Artoo wakes, puts up the large part of the map, BeeBee places the final piece and--

    Voila! The location of the First Jedi Temple, and hopefully, hopefully, Luke Skywalker.
     
  19. hckymdgt

    hckymdgt Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2014
    Yeah based on Abrams' interview and the published info on Lor San Tekka, I think the "map" is really a chart showing a series of the original Jedi temples. Artoo had the majority from the Death Star, just as Kylo Ren did from Imperial Archives. Lor San Tekka was an explorer with an interest/devotion to the Jedi. I think its reasonable that the original gang met him and they were all friends, and that in his travels he discovered the location of the First Jedi Temple.

    Perhaps he told Luke this, perhaps they both figured it out independently at different times, I don't know. It seems likely Luke did not know that Artoo had the map of the other temples, or else he probably would have worked with Artoo to study them, right? I wonder if he spoke with Lor San Tekka before he left, and was told where the First Temple was. Maybe just now Leia has figured that out or figured out where Lor San Tekka went off to live in solitude. The other consistent option is that Luke went off to find it and figured it out on his own, and Lor San Tekka had independently figured this out back in the day and was the only lead Leia had to track him down. I'm not sure there's a definitive answer for how long Luke has been missing (I didn't get the impression it had been 30 years, or even 10-15. My thought was it was closer to 3-5 years, and the Falcon had only been missing for months and Rey was just being hyperbolic in dissing the Falcon by saying "that garbage hasn't flown in years!" which was probably not literal). Do we really think Kylo Ren has been evil for 10-30 years and is still dealing with internal conflict about embracing darkness?

    Speaking of Lor San Tekka, I also read him as an Alderaanian, or possibly a friend of Bail Organa, since he says Leia will "always be royalty to me."
     
  20. IG_2000

    IG_2000 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2008
    I love the amount of people grasping for straws at negative points in this movie the same way people grasped for positive points of the phantom menace.
     
  21. ffej747

    ffej747 Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2015
    (Not to mention episode 8&9 that will probably be just as problematic! )
     
  22. Argalin

    Argalin Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2015
    Just to be clear, when I made the OP I was not grasping at straws for negative points, but merely addressing how I realized that the movie actually potentially explains what some are seeing as confusing/convenient. My realization added to my enjoyment, I like more subtle story elements.
     
  23. IG_2000

    IG_2000 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2008
    I just mean how apparently now "I don't know until I try" is somehow a character assassination of Han
     
  24. Argalin

    Argalin Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2015
    I certainly don't think so, and it makes sense to me from a logical standpoint. Han always behaved this way, but he is able to verbalize his philosophy of life now that he is an older man because he knows himself that much better.
     
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  25. AndyLGR

    AndyLGR Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 1, 2014
    At one point someone (I forget who) says they found the map in the old archives of the Empire. So where was the missing bit? Who erased it from the archives?
     
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