ST The Marvel Cinematic Universe’s impact on new Star Wars films

Didn't you know that thirty is the new thirteen? Just ask that thirty year old "kid" that got kicked out of his parents house.

 

I think you need to calm down a bit.

 

Yeah, no.

 

off topic (or maybe back on topic?), Star Wars probably influenced the MCU, and the MCU probably had some impact on Star Wars. For a long time, Star Wars tried to establish an canon of a generally established timeline of events and characters in the Star Wars universe. This sometimes would get off-track with events in the books, and with the Disney acquisition of LucasFilm, but the effort to maintain some kind of consistency was there.

In that way, the MCU borrows from Star Wars, and possibly other major film franchises (LOTR, Harry Potter) to build an overarching narrative.

Where the (new) Star Wars, after the Disney acquisition, may be borrowed from the MCU, however, is with the anthology films. "Solo" is the origin story of Han Solo, and gathering from public news reports, there may be further standalone, anthology, stories of Boba Fett and Obi Wan Kenobi. These anthology films are much like some of the standalone Iron Man, Thor or Captain America films that branch outside of the "main" Avengers story.

 

What I wish that the MCU and Marvel in general kept out of Star Wars was the freakin' Reset Button

Would be nice if Disney stopped making their two franchises mirrors of one another, because what works in one does not work in the other

Can't wait for Episode IX to end with Rey becoming an all-powerful god and resetting the universe so Rian's new trilogy can take place with a blank slate

Who's this Deak Starkiller guy and why does he live on a desert planet wishing to leave it until he stumbles across a droid with a top secret message?

 

I read an interesting article about Infinity War and The Last Jedi--how the former united a fandom while the latter pulled a fandom apart, while being about similar subjects. Both films deal with themes about letting go and failure. However, the two diverged at a key point: IW characters acted within their established bounds, while TLJ characterization wanted to push the boundaries. If IW had taken a TLJ approach, it would be more like Steve Rodgers refusing to take Banner's call and come back because they had broken up. We would have to see a sullen Steve the entire film moping about his lost shield, squeezing green milk from an alien's breast. But no, this is Captain America, he is an established hero, and when his friends need him to return, he takes the call. It's what the audience expects, and nothing was subverted. We see the heroes fail (epically), and we feel the emotion when we see the demise of familiar characters, meaning acting within established means.

 

CNN chimes in with a piece exploring some of what we covered in this thread. It statement? Star Wars isn’t built for a MCU-style approach.

https://www.cnet.com/news/solo-box-office-shows-star-wars-is-no-mcu-tentpole/

 

If CNN writes that it must be true.
Any comment from Fox yet?

 

So, maybe we LFL should copy DCEU’s approach?

 

I’d also add that Marvel is all about looking to the future whereas LFL puts more focus on looking backward to the past.

 

In my view, Star Wars is far more suited to a multi film cinematic universe than Marvel. Star Wars not only has an entire galaxy with an established 25,000 year history and counting but it has so many different elements. You have the Jedi and the Sith but you also have the underworld and the politics and regular people and other wars and smaller conflicts etc. in Marvel every single movie has to be based on a superhero who we all know will never die (and stay dead forever) and will never fail or turn evil.

Look at what we have already. Rogue One and Solo feel like such different movies from each other let alone the saga films. They expand the universe and the movies but do so in a more subtle way without glaring connections and advertisement for the other movies.

 

Have you seen Infinity War?

 

Yes.

 

I will soon.

@11-4D And Ld

Lucasfilm treated Han and Luke with respect. They died selfless heroes.

 

Following the Marvel model will lead to a cookie cutter, assembly line approach. What I've admired the most across the board from Lucasfilm under Disney is that each film has been visually and tonally distinct from the others.

 

This thread should be titled 'What Can The Star Wars Films Learn From The MCU' b/c the MCU has not had any impact on the Star Wars film; if they did the new characters who are giving this world a fresh start, a fresh perspective, and are introducing a new generation into this franchise wouldn't be so poorly developed.

If the MCU had an impact on the Star Wars films, LucasFilm wouldn't be trying to make money soley off of nolstagia by continuously filling in the blanks on the past but instead look towards building an expansive future b/c they seem to think killing off the old guard is the same thing as expanding the universe and it's not.

Speaking of expansion, if the MCU had any impact on Star Wars films, Lucasfilm would actually be trying to expand their universe and make space which is large actually feel large. Despite most of the heroes knowing each other in the MCU, there would be a small minority of individuals who would say they felt nothing at all when that first Inifnity War trailer came out and you saw all the heroes together b/c the MCU has done a good job of making their world feel large.

If the MCU had any impact on the Star Wars films, they would have a Kevin Feige, instead of looking as if they are making it up as they go like they seem to be doing.

...

...You know what I change my mind, the MCU has had an impact on Star Wars. Kylo Ren is still a poorly developed villain just like most of Marvel's.

And Marvel has made studios believe you can build a franchise without the hard work b/c they have made it look so easy. The DCEU rushed and tried to play catch up with Marvel and got burned in the process while Star Wars has kept looking behind it's self and has tripped for not looking forward.

Marvel movies have been tonally and distinctly different from each other.

Captain America is a WWII era film.

Captain American The Winter Soldier is a political thriller.

Spider-Man: Homecoming is the teen movie genre.

Guardians of the Galaxy is sci-fi comedy.

Black Panther is afrofuturism.

Ant-Man is a heist film.

I'm sure if Black Widow gets off the ground it will be treated as a spy thriller.

I find that people who have said Marvel is cookie cutter and not different, factory made are:

1. Trying to put down Marvel and it's success to make their own favorite look good.

2. Repeat what was said or read (i.e one DC/SW fans say something and then a flock of others will parrot it).

3. Have not actually watched all the films; meaning if you haven't see them all how do you know that they're all similar.

4. Believe Superhero movies don't have sub genres.

5. Are under the impression that just b/c movies share similarities that it means they are the same (e.g humor/comedy, origin mold, predictable endings).

Marvel is not perfect but no one should be trying to downplay it's success and impact and belittle what works for them, it has paid Disney back it's 4 billion dollar cost and then some.

 

Marvel's approach to longform storytelling has unquestionably been successful for them, but I would rather not see it applied to how Lucasfilm approach Star Wars. I prefer Kathleen Kennedy's filmmaker first approach, and of course, while several directors haven't worked out for Lucasfilm, what I love is that each of the new films is reflective of the directors who made them. Marvel has been getting better at that lately with giving directors like Taika Waititi and Ryan Coogler some space to put their personal stamp on their films, but not to the same degree that Abrams, Edwards, Johnson and even Howard have applied to their respective films.

 

^
See, I think the filmmakers-first approach is not really helping the franchise. Filmmakers alone don’t necessarily translate to great writers and great sequel planners, much less great "future of the franchise" thinkers.

The widely regarded “best” Star Wars movies were a product of more than one creative mind working on them. Enough has been said about Marcia Lucas saving ANH with her remarkable editing skills and ways of creatively reshaping the story originally put out by GL. TESB is a product of four different creative minds.

But ultimately, these movies had a cohesive structure and an ongoing plot that created excitement for sequels, because George Lucas was still, ultimately, overseeing the ongoing story.

I happen to think that Star Wars movies, and what we expect them to be, as a multi-character epic with a lot of narratives appealing to different tastes simultaneously (I mean, this saga has both an epic romance and epic space battles and epic familiar drama), it’s not a “one man” job. It’s definitely not a “let’s hire this guy and hope he singlehandily figure out an entire movie for us” job.

So I do find the ideal approach would be one which included more than one person, a group of people with different creative sensitivities, collectively working together on the concept, script and direction, and one visionary mind who thinks about sequels and building future excitement, having an input in its production.

And I think that is what is really lacking in current SW, one visionary mind, or a bunch of creative minds, planning out/overseeing the expansion of the franchise. Instead, if feels they are relying too much on one director/household name to crank up a story and a movie for them.

 

Them dying doesn’t mitigate what tptb had done to their characters. They didn’t get a chance to have their characters end their arcs in a successful manner. Both had cut and run for YEARS and one of them never even left his self-imposed exile. I wouldn’t say that them dying “heroically” was respecting them. The films tore down what fans loved about them for decades all for “realism” and as a way to try to pass on to the new characters. IMO and many others that was a mistake. They should have still been allowed to play a large part in galactic affairs and then bow out gracefully.

 

Part of the difference between Lucasfilm and Marvel is that Kennedy is not at all a showrunner type like Kevin Feige. Kennedy's career as a producer has been about allowing the directorial voices behind each film she's made have as much creative freedom as possible, whereas Feige has been dictating the overall narrative direction of Marvel for a decade. Feige also has had decades of source material to draw from, whereas Kennedy has to build upon an established mythology and take it in new directions. But Kennedy herself is more inclined to let the filmmakers dictate where the stories go, whereas Feige can always draw the broad strokes of what a given film will entail based off the Marvel comics.

 

The problem with Kennedy’s approach is that the stories don’t mesh. Even simple things like Finn being able to pilot a ship is wrong. TFA established that he can’t fly, but TLJ which takes place right after TFA, Finn is now able to pilot? It’s little things like that in which it is apparent that there is no one reeling it in when things don’t make sense.

 

When was Finn ever a pilot in TLJ?

If you mean the skimmers on Crait, that was like driving.

 

Isn’t driving and piloting essentially the same in SW?

And Finn was seen as the one piloting the transporter to Canto Bight.

 

Driving is over a 2D surface. Piloting is in 3 dimensions.

As per auxiliary material like Forces of Destiny, the novel adaptation and such, Rose was the pilot. The scene you saw in the film was Finn sitting down while autopilot was on and Rose got up.

Like in TFA when Han, Finn, Rey and Chewie are in back of the Falcon, while on autopilot while it's on it's way to Maz's.

 

Sure…. but is there really a difference in SW? They are both considered "piloting". Even in TCW, there were instances of the characters driving land speeders which the dialogue refereed as piloting.

SW does tend to make a skill difference between different types of ships though. That is due to ANH.

I'm sure the EU material has tried to work on explaining the plot hole, but just going with the movies,TLJ shows Finn piloting a ship and doesn't bother to explain how.