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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST The Marvel Cinematic Universe’s impact on new Star Wars films

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Ender_and_Bean, May 14, 2018.

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  1. cerealbox

    cerealbox Force Ghost star 6

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    May 5, 2016
    No they're different in Star Wars.

    Han, in the new Solo movie even mentions it.

    When he's saying his qualifications, he specifically mentions he's a driver and a flyer (pilot.)

    We also saw Finn drive in the deleted scene on Starkiller base in TFA , when he and Rey try to outrun Snowtroopers.
     
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  2. La Calavera

    La Calavera Force Ghost star 4

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    Sep 2, 2015
    Fair point.
     
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  3. powerfulforce

    powerfulforce Jedi Grand Master star 3

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    Mar 16, 2005
    Considering Finn was going to take a ship/escape pod to Rey on Ahch-To, it would suggest he would have to be able to pilot it there, something he should not be able to do.
     
  4. cerealbox

    cerealbox Force Ghost star 6

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    May 5, 2016
    It's an escape pod. Like a bigger version of what Chewie dropped Rey off in, in front of the Supremacy. (but less coffin like).

    Barely manueverable.
     
  5. powerfulforce

    powerfulforce Jedi Grand Master star 3

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    Mar 16, 2005
    If it’s barely maneuverable, then he should have even MORE difficulty in using it to get where he wants to, not less.
     
  6. cerealbox

    cerealbox Force Ghost star 6

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    May 5, 2016
    He's not trying to get to Rey in that instance.

    He's trying to get the homing beacon away from the space chase.

    He apparently would let Rey find him drifting in space rather than join the FO-Resistance confrontation
     
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  7. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 5

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    Oct 14, 2015
    Why? Lucas didn't want them to have large roles. And Arndt didn't want Luke to take over his scenes and Pablo felt Han was too prominent. Lucas had Luke in exile. I didn't feel any tearing down. And what powers that be?
     
  8. powerfulforce

    powerfulforce Jedi Grand Master star 3

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    Mar 16, 2005
    Why not? People didn’t wait thirty years to see Han split from Leia to go back to smuggling, nor did they want a Luke that just gave up. They didn’t have to be the main protagonists or have a giant role, but at least let the audience feel as though they accomplished something and that they are truly passing the torch as opposed to the new characters “cleaning up their mess”. What powers that be? I would say the producers would be the powers that be. Everything done in the films had to be approved by the ones above the director/writers.
     
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  9. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 5

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    Oct 14, 2015
    JJ is wpd and RJ wd. It’s a collaborative process. And which people? All? The majority? Which movie did you see? Luke didn’t give up.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2018
  10. powerfulforce

    powerfulforce Jedi Grand Master star 3

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    Mar 16, 2005
    A collaborative process that still needs approval from the head honchos. I would imagine the majority of people didn't expect the original trio to be split up and their lives work basically gone to ruin when we see them next. Luke didn't give up? I'm sorry, but in what way is self-exile and declaring that the Jedi need to end not "giving up"? His actions at the end still don't change the fact that he DID in fact give up. He may have thought he was doing what was for the best, but leaving his friends and family behind and not even making an attempt to turn ANY of his surviving students back to the light was not the correct course of action.

    I think that is why people are more receptive to the MCU. There is nothing wrong with letting heroes BE heroes. Sometimes they feel like they've been knocked down and out, but they get back up again. That's what audiences and many people enjoy, seeing how a person will rise to the occasion even when the chips are down.
     
  11. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 5

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    Oct 14, 2015
    I’m sorry, but you haven’t made a cogent argument. Alan Ladd, Jr., was a ptb and we got Star Wars. GL is a ptb and we got Disney LFL. And it was GL who had Luke in exile. I’m sorry, it appears you gave up on TLJ and walked out. If you had stayed to the end, you would have seen Luke didn’t give up.

    GL was heavily influenced by Campbell and Jung. The Saga is about self-realization. Even Jedi Masters must stroll grow and that may mean facing challenges, such as Yoda in the last story arc in TCW and Luke in TLJ. Again, Luke didn’t give up.

    Thank you for returning the topic to MCU’s influence on SW. MCU has tptb. What do you think they’re doing right the LFL isn’t. Their heroes who are allowed to be heroes aren’t as interesting to me as as SW’s heroes who have been troubled from the backstory we learned in ANH Act 1 in 1977.

    If you want to talk about tptb screwing up, you have DCEU. And please stop talking “people.” You can’t talk for most or all, questions you dodged.

    Anyway, looking forward to seeing IW, DP2, and Solo here in Japan.
     
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  12. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 5

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    Oct 14, 2015
    Sorry. Too late to edit.

    *even Jedi Masters struggle
    We’ve had heroes who have had issues ever since Luke learns of the murder of his father in SW 1977 Act 1.

    But to be fair, Marvel’s heroes are at first more like real people, at least compared to DC back in the Silver Age, and both Marvel and DC’s heroes have grown a lot since then into the Modern or even Postmodern Age.

    There was talk of gray with Disney SW. We got it in spades with Kylo and Luke. Not that Luke is a Gray Jedi, but things are murkier.

    Having said that, are MCU’s protagonists simpler than SW’s? It seems DCEU’s are more complex recently than Marvel’s, but then Batman (except the Adam West version I grew up on) was always a dark hero. And is there any influence of MCU on SW’s heroes? I don’t think so.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2018
  13. powerfulforce

    powerfulforce Jedi Grand Master star 3

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    Mar 16, 2005
    Really there are no ptb in LFL? You're arguing that because there is more freedom that there are no people at the top pulling the strings or signing off on what is being done? I could've sworn every film except for TLJ has had some issues behind the scenes, even the firing of directors over how they were mapping out their own films. I'm not so ignorant to believe that a film congealed itself into existence and that there still needs to be people who agree to them. What exactly did you say that refutes that Luke DID give up for years. That he came back at the end doesn't mitigate the fact that he never attempted to bring his students back to the light, that he wasn't in contact with his family and friends, that he cut himself off from the force or that he genuinely believed that the Jedi needed to end. He may have eventually come around at the end, but that still doesn't change everything from beforehand.

    I don't find the SW heroes now to be complex. They may be trying to show the difference between the older and newer characters with which ones that are pessimistic/"realistic" and the ones that are filled with optimism, however that still doesn't make them be great. You're writing off the MCU characters as just simple, but they have struggles as well and try to overcome their issues. I WISH that we could get more of that in these films. Rey is far too overpowered and at the moment not that interesting. She's just too good at everything and never seems to struggle that much. Luke didn't need to be brought down so much just to be "complex". He could've still been a bit jaded, but him in exile wasn't the way to go. Also just because Lucas initially had that idea of him being in exile, we don't know if it would've been for the same reason or if he would've kept it going.
     
  14. PendragonM

    PendragonM Force Ghost star 4

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    Mar 7, 2018
    Thank you. Another argument I'm sick of "oh Lucas had him in exile too!" - really. Well, I don't think it would have ended the same way, but we don't know, because all we have are a bunch of self-serving narrators who conveniently trotted out "look look it was in Lucas's treatments!" after Lucas himself said they threw them out and these stories came out when fandom was in an uproar over Luke's fate. As the Church Lady would say "well, isn't that convenient."
     
  15. ShaneP

    ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001
    Actually, Lucas had 7 with Luke training Kira on the Jedi Temple planet. That is entirely different than self-loathing Luke in hiding on Ach-To refusing to train Rey and then saying he came there to die. That is pathetic. The former is Luke taking an initiative.
     
  16. starwarsfan54

    starwarsfan54 Jedi Knight star 1

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    May 29, 2017
    Marvel has enough material for a cinematic universe, Star Wars only had enough material for 3 movies.
     
  17. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 5

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    Oct 14, 2015
    Who said there are no ptb in LFL? Lucas, for example? And you might reply, so I know that you’re addressing me.

    We’re self-serving for those who disagree and disrespect the rule? What thread is this?
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2018
  18. PendragonM

    PendragonM Force Ghost star 4

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    Mar 7, 2018
    We’re self-serving for those who disagree and disrespect the rule? What thread is this?[/QUOTE]

    I was not referring to you or posters on here as self serving narrators, I was referring to the LFL team who have for two years said basically that Abrams & Kasdan et al started from scratch - Lucas himself said they threw out his treatments. Then here comes the new Art of TLJ book to say that Luke in exile and other events that were controversial were all from Lucas’s treatments. Self serving might be too strong, I’ll admit, but the timing of the book seems really convenient and the tellers of the tale are not disinterested parties.

    But I do hate the continual “but Lucas had Luke in exile” when it’s not what people are objecting to per se. it’s Luke spending six years at least away after helping to cause the problem in the first place, plus we don’t know exactly how it would have been written by Lucas either.
     
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  19. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 5

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    Oct 14, 2015
    I was not referring to you or posters on here as self serving narrators, I was referring to the LFL team who have for two years said basically that Abrams & Kasdan et al started from scratch - Lucas himself said they threw out his treatments. Then here comes the new Art of TLJ book to say that Luke in exile and other events that were controversial were all from Lucas’s treatments. Self serving might be too strong, I’ll admit, but the timing of the book seems really convenient and the tellers of the tale are not disinterested parties.

    But I do hate the continual “but Lucas had Luke in exile” when it’s not what people are objecting to per se. it’s Luke spending six years at least away after helping to cause the problem in the first place, plus we don’t know exactly how it would have been written by Lucas either.[/QUOTE]

    I’m sorry I misunderstood.
     
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  20. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Chosen One star 6

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    May 19, 2002
    Comics are a visual medium. Heck, films are storyboarded like comics before they’re made. It is a match made in heaven for this reason & comic book companies have a huge roster of visually distinctive strong personalities to adapt from with powers frequently beyond those seen by Jedi.

    I won’t respond more specifically in this thread to any further Marvel property love because it will only derail things further but as a former comic nerd who still owns over 500 comics including all of the Amazing Spider-Man from 1984-1989 I understand the appeal.

    The sheer scope of Infinity War and seeing all of those actors come together was pretty awe-inspiring & I also enjoyed the darkness & emphasis on Thanos gaining the upper hand & how Starlord’s ego and stupidity hurt them.

    As an aside, I wonder if it would be smart for someone to try and acquire all of the Image comics properties for cheap and aim for the same approach. Even though the characters didn’t break through very often to the same degree beyond Spawn & the walking dead and a couple others... the designs are there and if someone hired a quality show runner, and screenwriters better than many of the Image writers were... and cast some quality actors... I wonder if they might be able to have perhaps some R-rated Deadpool-like hits? Along with some PG13 content? Maybe to better separate from most of Marvel? If I was a rival studio that didn’t own DC, Marvel or Star Wars in this era I’d be asking that question because if you did it right and built slowly, selecting the right titles... you might be able to turn some profit while this boon continues.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2018
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  21. cerealbox

    cerealbox Force Ghost star 6

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    May 5, 2016
    It would never work with Image, because the point is that each property there is creator owned.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2018
  22. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Chosen One star 6

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    May 19, 2002
    Chuck Wendig fired from Marvel for being too political online according to him.

    http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2018/10/12/in-which-i-am-fired-from-marvel/

    This wasn't the first time writers have wondered whether Marvel is purposefully taking either an indifferent approach to the Left/Right divide that exists in many of the markets where Marvel is most popular. Some even feel Marvel has occasionally thrown bones by design to the right. There was even more analysis when Captain America Civil War came out that it was essentially a battle over two Conservative viewpoints with Iron-Man representing the checks and balances of centrism/neo-Conservatism and its desire to play nice with Democrats and play ball with the UN opposite the more rebellious Captain America resenting big government and overreach & outside opinion from globalists in American affairs and the singular belief that he as an individual knew what was right for himself and was willing to fight for it. Cap represents a more libertarian perspective in this story. While Iron-Man's reasons seem, well, reasonable, the film puts Captain America more in the protagonist role. I even saw some say that Marvel presented Hydra as the the Left/Globalism for both to unite against. That's a bridge too far for me but I can absolutely see the argument that Civil war explored some concepts that Conservative viewers may have enjoyed.

    Marvel has drawn support of the politically incorrect in other ways as well. The alt right cheered when Marvel's Senior Vice President of Print said, and I quote: "“What we heard was that people didn’t want any more diversity,” Gabriel told iCv2 after being asked what contributed to changes in customer tastes that led to a drop in sales in October-November. “They didn’t want female characters out there." He went on to also say, "We saw the sales of any character that was diverse, any character that was new, our female characters, anything that was not a core Marvel character, people were turning their nose up against,” Gabriel added. “That was difficult for us because we had a lot of fresh, new, exciting ideas that we were trying to get out and nothing new really worked.”
    Those words were met with back-pedaling as others gasped in reaction but the message had been sent.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2018
  23. oncafar

    oncafar Force Ghost star 6

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    Jan 10, 2017
    I personally am fine with Marvel being apolitical. I prefer this. I don't agree with firing someone for being "too political," however. If the issue was civility surely they could have just asked him to tone it down in response to the people trolling and bullying him.
     
  24. 3sm1r

    3sm1r Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 27, 2017
    There is something that thankfully SW has never done, that is that weird between the legs take-down that Scarlett Johansson does in every single fighting scene. And she's not the only one. I can't stand it, I find it annoying as hell. I'm so glad Rey's never done it.
     
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  25. oncafar

    oncafar Force Ghost star 6

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    Jan 10, 2017
    http://www.vulture.com/2018/10/why-did-marvel-fire-star-wars-comics-writer-chuck-wendig.html

    That article covers his tweets a bit. I personally don't have a problem with them. It's his Twitter page. He's saying his opinion. If I were Marvel, I'd be like, yessss that's the spirit. Use that anger when you're writing Darth Vader. But nooooo they have to be uptight about it.

    Though my ideal would be a company like Marvel not firing anyone for anything they say on their Twitter page. And would just be clear to the public that the opinions on a Marvel employee's Twitter don't necessarily represent Marvel and shouldn't be taken as though they do, that Marvel employs human beings with their own opinions and political views which they spout online just like everyone does.

    I mean maybe I'd have a *recommended* policy of decency in interacting with the fans and resources available to help employees being trolled online with suggested strategies. I mean I don't think being a jerk to fans for instance is a good strategy and I don't think it improves the overall good or profits, but it just seems lame to police employee Twitter accounts like a company owns their employees' souls. It's a bit entitled really.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2018
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