The Matrix Philosophy Thread

Discussion in 'Dayton, OH' started by Sean_Starrider, Nov 12, 2003.

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  1. Sean_Starrider Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2002
    star 4
    I am creating this thread for anyone who wishes to discuss the Philosophical aspects of the Matrix or just chat in general about it. :)

    EDIT by Krash: red pill
  2. full_of_hate Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2003
    Does anyone have a list of the different philisophical references in the films? I know that it may as well be every other written line in the script.
  3. DarthSkywalker360 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 21, 2002
    star 3
    What about the Buddhist philosophy in the Matrix? The characters are always saying stuff that do come from Buddhist philosophies. Including "There is a difference of knowing the path, and walking the path." and "You already made the choice, you just need to figure out why you made the choice."
  4. full_of_hate Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2003
    Sean should appreciate these...

    [image=http://www.spawn.com/toys/movies/matrix2/trinity2/images/matrix2_trinity2_photo_03_dp.jpg]

    [image=http://www.spawn.com/toys/movies/matrix2/sentinel/images/matrix2_sentinel_photo_03_dp.jpg]

    [image=http://www.spawn.com/toys/movies/matrix2/neo4/images/matrix2_neo4_photo_03_dp.jpg]

    [image=http://www.spawn.com/toys/movies/matrix2/neo3/images/matrix2_neo3_photo_03_dp.jpg]

    [image=http://www.spawn.com/toys/movies/matrix2/morpheus2/images/matrix2_morpheus2_photo_03_dp.jpg]

    [image=http://www.spawn.com/toys/movies/matrix2/agentsmith/images/matrix2_agentsmith_photo_03_dp.jpg]

    [image=http://www.spawn.com/toys/movies/matrix2/apu/images/matrix2_apu_photo_03_dp.jpg]
  5. Sean_Starrider Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2002
    star 4
    There are many religions incorperated into the Matrix movies. The most prominant ones are Buddhism, Hindu and Christianity. The orphan in M1 that teaches Neo that it is not the spoon that bends it is himself is a HUGE teaching in Buddhism. This represents clarity and truth as the boy shares with Neo his most important lesson: "There is no spoon." The parallel here with Buddhism is striking. The Buddhist message is clear. The spoon does not move, since there is no spoon. There is only mind. Furthermore, because there is no spoon, the mirror-reflection reminds us that we need to be careful not to place too much importance on the images that are reflected. The images are simply images, nothing more, nothing less. In a sense, just as there is no spoon, there is no mirror in that the world that is reflected in the mirror is simply an image, an illusion. In this light the Buddha teaches that the world as we know it is an illusion. Now Buddhist scholars have debated about the nature of this illusion. Does this mean that the world we see and touch does not actually exist? This metaphysical interpretation is what the Matrix is all about.
  6. TheRandomMenace Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2002
    star 4
    I remember from my world religions class I took a few years ago that Sikhs believe that the world is maya, or "illusion." This webpage describing it even mentions the Matrix:

    Knock, knock, Neo.

    I personally got out of Revolutions a lot of similarity with the book of Revelations in the North American Bible. The Oracle is like God, all-knowing... and her counterpart would be the Architect, who is the Devil. Neo is the messiah, and Smith would be the beast.
  7. Gwen_Amidala Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2003
    star 1
    Alright, I went and saw the Matrix. I am Christian, but was not super-offended by anything. I think that the movies try to use religious undertones so that people will be able to recognize the symbolism. I don't think they were trying to be blasphemous or anything, it's just that most people (not all) believe in some religion of some sort and are able to identify with the familiar representations.
  8. DarthSkywalker360 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 21, 2002
    star 3
    The one thing I kinda understand, but at the sametime I don't is when Neo lets Smith copy himself onto Neo. From what I get it's this, Smith is now a virus, and when Smith copied himself onto Neo, the Machines sent an anti-virus to destroy Smith. Am I right, or is that just my interpretation?
  9. Sean_Starrider Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2002
    star 4
    Smith wanted Everything, right? And he had a part of Neo's code from the ending of the first matrix. Well I think when the oracle, through smith, says "everything that has a beginning has an end Neo", Neo realizes that
    she's still inside him, and that Smith MUST have an end and that he is it. He began Smith, he can end him. Smith is Neo, the negative to his positive. So neo lets him take him over because Smith would then have
    ALL of Neo's code. Neo is connected to the
    source but Smith still has some part of Neo's code that Neo does not. Upon the merger, they truly became The One and being connected to the source, reinserted the prime program and reloaded the matrix.
    This, therefore, fullfilled the prophecy: "the Oracle prophesied his
    return, and that his coming would hail the destruction of the Matrix, end the war, bring freedom to our people" When THEY became the ONE the matrix was reloaded (and was therefore destroyed, and made anew), and Neo's truce was fullfilled thusly ending
    the war. It brought freedom to the rebels. Does that answer your question Darth?
  10. TheRandomMenace Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2002
    star 4
    That's exactly what I got out of it too, Sean. Except I'm not so sure Neo really DID reload the Matrix by merging with Smith, as you say. I think the black cat glitch was just there to show you that something went wrong (aka Smith taking everyone over) and by Neo merging with him it undid that wrong... not that it necessarily reset the Matrix, because we know all the pod people are freed, they didn't die.
  11. DarthSkywalker360 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 21, 2002
    star 3
  12. PADA-1 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 11, 2003
    star 1
    What was the purpose of the little Indian girl, was she the new Oracle or what? Also, I was very disappointed with the wishy-washy ending. Did Neo die, did the Matrix continue using people as energy, why would the Architect let people be freed willingly from the Matrix? I liked the movie but felt it was the weakest part of the trilogy.
  13. Sean_Starrider Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2002
    star 4
    "Sati" is the little girl's name. In Hindu, "Sati" means the young girl taken to the desert. The desert represents the wilderness, or the hard path. It is hell. So the "young girl" is sent to hell, or the wilderness. A girl is symbollic of a nation. The girl's name symbolizes the death of nation, but it also denotes its rebirth. The "rebirth" aspect is expressed in the girls youth. She represents the fact that zion as it was will die(transform) and be reborn as a new, young nation. The key here is the founding prinicple of all these tehologies, the imortality of the soul, or the Infinitude of the first principle, the infinite, everlasting origin or all, which dies not, only appears dead, and is reborn. Sati is the nation, the vaesel and templee of that principle. The temple destroyed, it is rebuilt. To put it more simply Sati is a symbol of peace, hope and Love between the humans and machines. Since love in machine is described as a connection, She's the connection between the Matrix and the real world.
  14. PADA-1 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 11, 2003
    star 1
    So the Matrix "loves" the humans now? That doesn't seem to make any sense, I think the Wach. Bros. put a little TOO much thought into this whole thing....or maybe Im a crack-smoking moron, either way it's all to confusing for one movie.
  15. TheRandomMenace Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2002
    star 4
    The Matrix doesn't "love" humans now. The Oracle has told Neo, "I'm only interested in one thing: the future. And I know the only way there is together." Basically, Sati represents how the humans and machines will both be better off if they learn to coexist and work together.
  16. Sean_Starrider Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2002
    star 4
    I was looking at some pictures from Revolutions and I came across a picture of Neo siting in the train station and on the wall behind him is the name of the train stop and it says "Mobil Ave". I had noticed the sign every time I watched the movie but it never really dawned on me until today that it had meaning. The Oracle said that Neo was "trapped in a place between the machine world and this world". So you could say that since he was trapped between the 2 worlds he was in Limbo. Well guess what...If you rearrange the letters in "Limbo" it spells "Mobil".
  17. Jedi_Junkie Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 6, 2003
    star 3
    And to think, I just thought it was props to a corporate sponsor... XD
  18. Robert-A-Fett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2002
    star 3
    Whens Revolutions out on DVD? I didnt care for the last two, though I saw them only once. I think it would be cool though to watch them all back to back. Might add to the enjoyment. At any rate, as usual, the original is the best.
  19. nero_2burn Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2004
    I just feel that Reloaded and Revolutions are just one big movie. I just wished Gloria Foster (The Oracle) didn't pass away. The movie explained her "guise" but the other woman that played her part did pretty good.

    There is supposedly an Matrix Online game coming out later this year.
  20. Sean_Starrider Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2002
    star 4
    From what I have read and heard about the game it is supposed to blow Galaxies out of the water.
  21. PADA-1 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 11, 2003
    star 1
    If this new Matrix game is anything remotely like Enter The Matrix I will avoid it like the plague. In answer to Robert A Fett I think Matrix 3 comes out April 6th. Im surprised there isn't a boxed set of all three flicks and Animatrix. I would LOVE to find the figure of those Mech things the humans used to defend Zion in Revolutions, anyone seen 'em?
  22. Sean_Starrider Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2002
    star 4
    The suncoast in the Dayton Mall had about 10 of them 2 weeks ago.
  23. TheRandomMenace Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2002
    star 4
    Yeah, the release date for the DVD is April 6th. What was there Sean? The Matrix Online game? or Revolutions on DVD?
  24. Sean_Starrider Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2002
    star 4
    The EPUs that Pada-1 was asking about.
  25. Krash RSA Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2000
    star 5
    10 disks for the trilogy collection...can anyone really sit down and watch THAT much about one movie series? GL wants to know ;)
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