Mary The Matrix Reloaded (spoilers inside)

Discussion in 'NorthEast Regional Discussion' started by Mogook, May 15, 2003.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Mogook Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2001
    star 4
    Since there were many previews of the movie last night, I thought I'd start this forum for people.

    Because I mentioned there are spoilers right in the subject, feel free to discuss the movie without highlighting.

    So there's a warning for the people who haven't seen the movie, spoilers will be running free in here.
  2. mon-mothma Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2002
    star 2
    We have seen it. I really liked it, except for the last scene with the architect. What on earth? M.M. and I talked about it and have decided that everything that has happened in the movies so far has been planned, and when Neo took the other door to save Trinity (which, I must admit, is awesome, the taking out the bullet and all), he defied the architect and the whole program. This is also where I can add in a Star Wars quote.

    The Emperor in ROTJ:
    "Everything is going as planned."

    Personally, I think that there's a resemblance between the two characters. So my prediction for "The Matrix Revolutions" is that Neo will come to near death, Trinity will be saved, Morpheus might die, who knows? And in the end, the architect and the Oracle will duke it out, eventually killing each other and destroying the Matrix. Good guys will prevail.

    The action scenes were great, especially the car chase and the Agent Smith fight. Neo now is officially Superman, as he can fly, as well as bring people back to life. Also, the remaining agents have become pure pushovers. Morpheus can kick their butt, but in the last movie, he couldn't lay a finger on them. Some of the scenes were just pointless, such as the party in Zion after Morpheus' speech, as well as the whole Persiphone thing.

    Sorry if I wrote a whole review, but has any one else seen it? Opinions? Hmm?

    Son of M.M.
  3. Mogook Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2001
    star 4
    Yeah, I found that whole dance party thing a little unnecessary.

    And, yes, everything that happened in the first Matrix was planned. It had happened five times before. Neo is the sixth "chosen one." But, we'll probably find out in Revolutions that he's different than the ones before him.
  4. MuttandSolo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2002
    star 4
    Wow, it was definitely a very intellectual movie, especially the Architect scene. The action was phenomenal. The whole dance party slowed the beginning down I thought.

    One thing I missed though. At the end when Neo's in the coma and they bring in the other guy, was that the same guy who was trying to kill Neo in Zion? I'd ask what his importance is, but that's part of the cliffhanger; just as I don't know how Neo could disable the Sentinels outsie the Matrix.
  5. Dark_Jedi_Kam Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2002
    star 5
    I feel the movie was very overrated and no where near as good as the 1st. the plot was lame, the action scene where too long and forced, and you could tell Neo was CG. the first movies action scenes were breathtakeing and not completely CG. I also didn't approve of all the sexual content in this movie. the first one did not have this aspect and I feel it was inapropriate to change the format so much during the second. If Taylor was a little older I would have taken him to see the movie, because there was no sex in the first one and would have been very upset during this one. I also didn't understand why it was so important that they sneek away to have sex in Zion, they are on the ship together and sleep together, they made it seem like they were never together

    Ok i'm done with my rant, in conclusion, go see X2 instead of M2
  6. Mogook Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2001
    star 4
    Yes, Mutt, that was the same guy who was trying to kill Neo. His name is Bane. And he's the guy that Smith copied over. So, now Bane is actually Smith.

    And Kam, Neo and Trinity couldn't do certain things in a ship with no privacy. Being in Zion offered them privacy and the chance. I didn't see any problem with it. It's an R-rated movie. Kids shouldn't be seeing the movie anyway because of the violence.
  7. Dark_Jedi_Kam Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2002
    star 5
    Yeah but Mogook, we saw that they had there own room and there was only 2 other people on the ship
  8. Mogook Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2001
    star 4
    True, but they may not have had time on the ship. And even if they didn't need much, they didn't want to rush it.


    Also, I rented Enter the Matrix (the video game), and that has scenes that expand on the movie. Plus, after you beat it, it shows a preview for Revolutions that's a little different than the one after Reloaded.
  9. MuttandSolo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2002
    star 4
    Well, since this is spoiler-marked Mogook, you should share with us the Enter the Matrix scenes...
  10. Dark_Jedi_Kam Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2002
    star 5
    Exceltent Idea Mutt, pleases Mogook, share with us
  11. Mogook Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2001
    star 4
    Well, there's not that much. Most of it is stuff that only relates to the game. But there is a live-action scene where Ghost is getting ready to leave the Matrix through a payphone. A bum walks by and says, "72 hours...72 hours. That's how long it took Zion to fall last time."

    Also, there's a scene showing the Logos' crew arrive to the meeting that was in the beginning of the movie.

    The preview at the end went by too fast to really notice anything. They showed the Neo-Smith fight in the rain, but basically the same scenes. There was scene of Smith smiling without his sunglasses.

    I'll beat the game again to see the preview. I've only seen it once.
  12. mon-mothma Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2002
    star 2
    OK... here is my theory.

    In one of the last scenes, Neo tells Morpheus that the prophecy is wrong. I disagree. The prophecy was "When The One walks through the door, the war will be over." Well, the 5 "Ones" before Neo walked through the door, met the Architect, then walked out and let the machines destroy Zion. In doing so, they ended the war, but the machines won, not the humans. The prophecy was probably set up by the Architect, but Neo took the other door, and in doing so defied the Prophecy. Therefore, I think that because Neo defied the Prophecy and the Architect, things will turn out differently then the times before and the humans will win.

    There, that's it.

    Son of M.M.

    EDIT: My other theory on how Neo stopped the Sentinels is that Neo is a program in exile himself and that he will save humanity, but in doing so will sacrifice himself, because his task was done, just like the Keymaker did Mon-mothma says he may be a machine-human hybrid. COOL.
  13. MuttandSolo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2002
    star 4
    Well thats all well and good, however we don't really know that Neo defied the Architect. Neo may have just done what the Architect knew he would do.

    Thats the underlying theme in the Matrix: Reloaded: are the choices that Neo and others inside the Matrix make effect unique results, or are they predetermined solutions? If they are all predetermined solutions, how can Neo control the Matrix when whatever he does is already pre-programmed to happen.
  14. Mogook Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2001
    star 4
    I agree with Mutt, the Architect knew Neo was going to choose saving Trinity over ending the war:

    "But we already know what you're going to do, don't we? Already I can see the chain reaction, the chemical precursors that signal the onset of emotion, designed specifically to overwhelm logic, and reason. An emotion that is already blinding you from the simple, and obvious truth: she is going to die, and there is nothing that you can do to stop it."


    The first thing I thought when Neo stopped the Sentinels was that there was a Matrix within the Matrix. But, Son of M.M., him being a program is a possible idea that fits within the storyline. Though, the Architect called him an anomaly. Possibly, Neo stopping the sentinels proves he's different than his predecessors.

    And that could explain the titles for the movies. "Reloaded" because Neo is another chosen one, and "Revolutions" because Neo is the one that'll change everything.
  15. chewboxer Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 22, 2002
    star 1
    Hi all, long time no post...

    My theory on Neo busting up the sentinels inside the real world is that somehow he is able to control is own human electricity. I think he sent out his own EMP charge and that's why he passed out. Theorizing on how he could "feel them" is something else.

    I agree that the "rave" scene in the beginning was slightly over the top. But I think that the way they showed the urgency between Neo and Trinity to be together was well done. They also touched on the same thing with Link and Z. However, I think they could have thought of something different than the chocolate cake scene...

    The other thing is that, the head priest (I don't remember his name) had no problem speaking to the mass of Zionites, yet when Morpheus got up there, it sounded as if he was straining his voice. If they can have cogs and gears and all the rest of their technology in Zion, why is it they could not have provided him with a proper PA system???

    ILM should have worked on this film also. I'm pretty sure they could have made it look slightly better than the folks who made the CG Neo. At one point it's like we're watching Woody from toy story in a trench coat. Another thing with that scene: Neo should have picked up the pole right away!! It got to be a little ridiculous before then.

    Other than those couple things I thought it was a great film. I love the philosophy behind the whole thing. I also suggest downloading the Animatrix series too. Or wait for it to come out on DVD. It provides some pretty neat back story. It has a lot of visuals of how the real world came to how we know it reloaded.

    Thanks for reading. I'd love to see some response to some of this.
  16. MuttandSolo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2002
    star 4
    "The other thing is that, the head priest (I don't remember his name) had no problem speaking to the mass of Zionites, yet when Morpheus got up there, it sounded as if he was straining his voice. If they can have cogs and gears and all the rest of their technology in Zion, why is it they could not have provided him with a proper PA system???"

    Well on first guess, I'd have to say that a PA system would broadcast a carrier signal that could be received and tracked by the sentinels.

    As for Neo knocking out the Sentinels, it was suggested in a thread over on the San Diego board that Neo discharged his bio-electric energy through his plugs, which would explain the passing out. Its a little far-fetched I think, but it has been the best explanation I've seen so far.

    As for the Animatrix, I also highly suggest a viewing especialy the "Second Renaissance" episodes. Those two shorts give a very chilling look at what happened to the real world. You will definitely think twice before kicking your problematic computer after viewing the "Second Renaissance".
  17. mon-mothma Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2002
    star 2
    We had a great discussion on Saturday night about the Matrix: Reloaded. The group decided that, among other things, both Neo and Trinity are programs and the "real world" is just another level of the Matrix, which is why Neo was able to stop the sentinels. It's also why Neo was able to "revive" Trinity. When he reached into her to remove the bullet it looked like he restarted her heart but really he was just reprogramming her on the fly.

    We went back and watched the original Matrix and if you watch the scene where Neo first becomes aware of Morpheus, he is in his apartment, fast asleep with headphones on blasting music directly into his ears. On the screen the words are: Wake up, Neo. At that instant he opens his eyes. For all you programmers out there is there any more obvious allusion to the moment at which your program goes "live"? You, as the creator, flip the switch, as it were, and the program launches.

    Pretty sure we're onto something here,
    M.M.
  18. MuttandSolo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2002
    star 4
    Well, I've never bought into the "Matrix-within-a-Matrix" theories. Remember, the real world is always tinted blue, where as the Matrix world is tinted green.
  19. DRK_HLMT Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2001
    star 4
    Here's my crazy theroy:

    Definition of "Neo"
    Main Entry: ne-
    Variant(s): or neo-
    Function: combining form
    Etymology: Greek, from neos new -- more at NEW
    1 a : new : recent <Neogene> b : new and different period or form of <Neoplatonism> : in a new and different form or manner <Neoplatonic> c : New World <Neotropical> d : new and abnormal <neoplasm>
    2 : new chemical compound isomeric with or otherwise related to (such) a compound <neostigmine>


    Trinity:

    Main Entry: Trin·i·ty
    Pronunciation: 'tri-n&-tE
    Function: noun
    Etymology: Middle English trinite, from Old French trinité, from Late Latin trinitat-, trinitas state of being threefold, from Latin trinus threefold
    Date: 13th century
    1 : the unity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three persons in one Godhead according to Christian dogma
    2 not capitalized : a group of three closely related persons or things
    3 : the Sunday after Whitsunday observed as a feast in honor of the Trinity

    and Matrix:
    Main Entry: ma·trix
    Pronunciation: 'mA-triks
    Function: noun
    Inflected Form(s): plural ma·tri·ces /'mA-tr&-"sEz, 'ma-/; or ma·trix·es /'mA-trik-s&z/
    1 : something within or from which something else originates, develops, or takes form
    2 a : a mold from which a relief surface (as a piece of type) is made b : DIE 3a(1) c : an engraved or inscribed die or stamp d : an electroformed impression of a phonograph record used for mass-producing duplicates of the original
    3 a : the natural material (as soil or rock) in which something (as a fossil or crystal) is embedded b : material in which something is enclosed or embedded (as for protection or study)
    4 a : the intercellular substance in which tissue cells (as of connective tissue) are embedded b : the thickened epithelium at the base of a fingernail or toenail from which new nail substance develops
    5 a : a rectangular array of mathematical elements (as the coefficients of simultaneous linear equations) that can be combined to form sums and products with similar arrays having an appropriate number of rows and columns b : something resembling a mathematical matrix especially in rectangular arrangement of elements into rows and columns c : an array of circuit elements (as diodes and transistors) for performing a specific function
    6 : a main clause that contains a subordinate clause


    Neo is the "New World Order". A programmed human that has evolved beyond his normal programming. He is now a program that can love and choose his own destiny instead of doing what he was programmed to do, which was to be "The One". When the Architect made Neo choose, Neo made his choice based on emotion. Trinity brings these emotions about in Neo by giving him the three things that he needs to be able to make those choices: Love, Faith, and Destiny. Neo made his choice based on an emotional attachment to the humans. He is the "anomaly" that has transcended logic and has become more than what he was programmed for.


    In the first movie when the Oracle told Neo that he was not "The One", it wasn't because Neo didn't believe he was at the time. It was because the Oracle knew that Neo was not like the others. The others were all programs that made choices based on logic. All of the "One" programs are actually made by the Matrix as sort of a reboot program for when the humans start to revolt against the Matrix. They're choices gave the Matrix the ability to "fix itself" by getting rid of the humans who rejected the Matrix program.


    When Neo sensed the Sentinels in the real world, he probably is now aware that his control has grown even beyond the Matrix. I believe that Neo will probably be able to control the Matrix without having to "jack in". He will become the new Architect and will either free the humans and then destroy the Matrix or give the humans a choice to stay in the Matrix or be released.

    Well, that's my crazy theory for the day. I'll be back when the prozac wears off. ;)
  20. MuttandSolo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2002
    star 4
    Wow :eek: Drk_Hlmt was using Prozac to understand the Matrix? How embarrassing, how embarrassing.

    My take on the Oracle (Oh yeah, thats one definition you left out ;) ) telling Neo he wasn't the "One" was similar to what you said: Neo didn't believe it at the time. Also for the Prophesy to be fulfilled, Trinity has to express her true love for Neo. It was also something Morpheus said, something about thinking you are versus walking the path. But the major clue that the Oracle does give away that lets us know that Neo will be the "One" is that she says that he has the "Gift", but is waiting for something. That something was Trinity's expression of her love for Neo.

    The reason that some people believe in the "Matrix-inside-the-Matrix" theories is that they have only seen the movies and narrowly believe that since he can use powers in the Real World, that they are not in a real world after all. However, with viewing of the Animatrix episodes, the Wachowski Brothers expand on the backstory and show us that there really was a real world and how Man destroyed the planet to escape the Machines, only to be enslaved by them.

    In the scheme of things, it really makes no sense to have a Matrix within a Matrix.

    • A. What reasons would the Machines have to create a parallel Matrix?

    • B. What effect can Neo, Morpheus, and Trinity have on the core Matrix if they are exisiting in another version of the matrix?

    • C. If you start rationalizing parallel Matrices, at some point it creates a Paradox and the theories are negated.

  21. mon-mothma Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2002
    star 2
    Oh! Oh! Oh!

    I forgot: what about when Smith tells Morpheus: "I want the codes to the Zion mainframe." What is that all about if not something that Smith (himself inside the Matrix) can actually effect change to? Smith being a program (now a virus) can no more live in the real world than any other computer program. So why is he interested in the codes to the Zion mainframe? How does he propose to actually get at it even if he DOES learn the access codes?

    BTW, I don't think that I'm too far apart from DrkHlmt's position. If I'm understanding correctly he's asserting that Neo and Trinity are both programmed (though highly evolved) entities just as I said.

    M.M.

    P.S. How about Matrix-within-a-Matrix as levels of a program? Or a game? Anyone out there ever play Myst or Riven?
  22. MuttandSolo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2002
    star 4
    I think that was in reference to accessing the Zion community. You saw the intense security within Zion in Reloaded. Smith can't do anything in the real world, but as was witnessed in the first movie, the Agents have a connection with the Sentinels
  23. Mogook Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2001
    star 4
    "...the Agents have a connection with the Sentinels."

    Yeah. When Smith got the codes, the machines would have it and be able to access the Zion systems.
  24. DRK_HLMT Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2001
    star 4
    But isn't the Smith copy now in the real world? If so all he has to do is get into the defense system and shut it down so that the Sentinels can get in. It's gonna be interesting to see how that pans out.

    Plus I wanna see those big mechs that the humans have in action. Those things looked awesome. Sorta like a souped up mech like the one used in Aliens.
  25. MuttandSolo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2002
    star 4
    "But isn't the Smith copy now in the real world? If so all he has to do is get into the defense system and shut it down so that the Sentinels can get in. It's gonna be interesting to see how that pans out."

    Sort of. He copied over the human's program and when he left the matrix, he entered the mind of the human he assimilated. The question is, how much of the human's brain does Smith's entity occupy. We already saw him attempt to kill Neo in the real world.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.