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FF:VIC The Matrix Reloaded

Discussion in 'Oceania Discussion Boards' started by Jet-Eye, May 7, 2003.

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  1. the_jedi_princess

    the_jedi_princess Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2002
    ^Gotta love that scene.
     
  2. Syrix_Kahl

    Syrix_Kahl Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 25, 2001
    Hawk: Well, I guess that's where we're going to disagree. I don't think Neo's ability to see the Matrix as what it really is has anything to do with his hacking abilities.

    Remember, (Unless I read your last post wrong) that Thomas Anderson wasn't an Uber-hacker (and any hacking skillz in the Matrix are there because that's what the program is telling you).

    Besides, what sort of hacker has a day job like that? Shouldn't he bee some young teenage punk kid, playing counter strike and coding in mad HTML? :D
     
  3. Dags

    Dags Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 3, 2000
    I heard it summed up in just one word "convoluted". I spent the first half hour thinking "what is going on??? I'm soooo confused."

    Overall I thought the film was a little long and that dance/sex scene just made no sense at all - along with the scene of the lady with the chocolate cake. It was one of those moments where 10 of us after seeing the film could not work out why it was included.

    Needless to say the action scenes were pretty impressive, although as time went on it did become another <insert Neo fight scene #3 here>.

    Personally I don't think it was as unique or original as the first film which was pretty revolutionary from an artistic film making perspective. Unlike Matrix which a lot of people loved, I think many people will be disapointed with Matrix: Reloaded (which has been noted already).

    Maybe they would've been better off not turning a standalone film into a part of a trilogy.



     
  4. Syrix_Kahl

    Syrix_Kahl Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 25, 2001
    "Maybe they would've been better off not turning a standalone film into a part of a trilogy."

    Well, technically, The MAtrix wasn't a stand alone film. I made a similar mistake as labelling it as such. The Wachowski brothers had already planned past the end of The Matrix when it was released. I think they had most of Reloaded and Revolutions already sketched out in some form or another. Had The Matrix flopped, then they were going to turn the rest of the story into an animated series (The original idea for The Animatrix??).

    Anyway, I agree that the "dance/sex scene" offered absolutly nothing to the story that hadn't already been said. At the very least they could have cut that scene in half, or even more. However, the other day, I suddenly realised there may be some "hidden meaning" to the length of the scene. Remember back to The Matrix. Neo was "dead" for a total of 72 seconds. 72 seconds = 72 hours = 3 days. For those of you familiar with the Death and Resurrection of Christ will know that he was dead for 3 days before returning to life. So I'm going to wait and see if there's some sort of connection that is supposed to be drawn from the party scene.

    As for the lady with the Chocolate cake, it works like this: The Merovingian likes to send chocolate cake to good-looking females in his resturant that aren't his wife, then he goes to the bathroom to seduce them. That's why Persephone (sp?) says that she has not felt love for so long (her husband cheats on her in plain sight). She asks Neo for a kiss, so that she could once more experience love and in return she hands over the Keymaster.
     
  5. HawkNC

    HawkNC Former RSA: Oceania star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2001
    "72 hours...that's how long Zion lasted the last time."

    "Who are you?"

    "Just a spectator enjoying the show..."

    -Scene from ETM between Niobe and some old guy

    On the topic of Neo's abilities, I think you're completely right that Thomas Anderson wasn't an uber-hacker in any sense. Keanu Reeves was two people: Thomas Anderson, mild-mannered (if lazy) computer programmer, and Neo, master h4xx0r. He was both of these in the "real world" as he knew it in the beginning of the Matrix. His abilities as Neo, the One, were hindered by the fact that he still held on to some vague idea that he was Thomas Anderson, and the only way he could get rid of that idea was to kill Thomas Anderson completely. That meant getting killed in the Matrix and being reborn as The One.

    There are certainly a lot of parallels between Christianity and The Matrix, with themes of resurrection and rebirth, etc. Who knows, they might provide some clues to what's going to be in Revolutions.
     
  6. darth_brutus

    darth_brutus Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 25, 2002
    I saw it for a second time today, damn I love that movie. :D



     
  7. Jet-Eye

    Jet-Eye Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2001
    Brutus, so did Damir, Kane (though for the first time) and I. :D Bloody good film that. I love the notion of Neo being a christ-like figure, i wait for PoT's thoughts to further rattle my brain (he unsettled me somewhat after the film upon announcing his ideas - I so wasn't thinking that far, anyhoo). The dance/sex scene was good, whinge whinge whinge, it says we're only human. I struggle to understand how the critics say that it doesn't expand upon the first film!!! It's so damn BIGGER.
     
  8. Protege-of-Thrawn

    Protege-of-Thrawn Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 14, 2001
    For those who've already noted JE's reference to my Messianic theory, need only look beyond the spoiler warning for more. I have two main school's of thought, both of which I believe can be reconciled to reality.

    Need I say, this is an outstanding film, on a level of many greats. Like most epics, it must be thought of as a trilogy, and hence we must wait until it is finished to truly appreciate it.




    SPOILER WARNING DON'T READ ON IF YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW.


    God is a stigma of social evolution, a mythic entity perhaps, but also an integral component to our "self actualisation", or identity of self and esteem. We cannot relate to the unthinking or abstract without personifying it, and when confronted with seeming unknown quantities, we react with two basic mechanisms.
    1) Fear. We fear it, we deny it. "Denial is the most automatic and therefore predictable of human reactions." (The Architect, Matrix:Reloaded) We deny it is there, or we seek alternative explanation. Some through the albeit vague and somewhat mystifying to most art of science, but before science came unorganised religion.

    Through belief came faith in the inherit good of these unknown forces in sustaining us. Through this belief, the mixed variances of life and death, and of course, our desire to survive, came the idea of a controlling presence, a Force beyond us. A God.

    What is the Matrix? What indeed.

    The programs that are of the machine world correctly assess this, yet they themselves are slaves to such a process, by the very sentinence which enslaves us. Ergo they seek control over their environment, via any and all means, to make things "a harmony of precise mathematics". Yet, they themselves understand that such a thing does not exist. It frustrates them that a seemingly perfect system is bound by the laws of Chaos Theory and entropy and will quickly break down. (Re: Chaos Theory and modern applications)
    They realised they had to factor in a quantity to balance out this automatic breakdown, this factoid one above, that of denial of reality when an unknown is presented.
    This factoid was choice, and balance between both positive and negative, a balance that we have evolved to expect.
    Yet, they are frustrated further by this need to allow sentinence to exist at a free level. It presents a "remainder not satisifed" resulting in "an anomaly" which cannot be quanitified nor explained.

    This is where it comes down to the very nature of control and freedom, a central tenant I believe. What is freedom? It is of course, the absence of control. Control? The absence of freedoms. Simple if cyclic, a conundrum that confounds all, and that the mayor tries to expound to a confused Neo.

    "What is Control?" "Who controls who?" he asks wily. Neo asserts "we control these machines because we can do what we want to them."
    "Can we? What of the consequence to us?"
    "So your point is we need them and they need us?"
    "No point...old men like me don't make points."

    This exchange is crucial, it points to a systematic theme that is concurrent throughout the movie and is encapsulated in Neo and his powers manifested.

    It points to what can be seemingly classed as a symbiosis between Man and Machine, or more basically, Controller and Controlled. Free and Controlled. One is the other and the other is the same.

    He who controls is as enslaved to the relationship as he who is controlled. THe controller can do what he wants, but if he does the wrong thing, he can lose his subject and thus no longer be in control. Do we remember this defnition? Freedom is the absense of being controlled. The absence of being controlled is freedom. Ergo, the absence of CONTROL is therefore as oppressive as being controlled, you are us shackled, helpless and lost at sea as the one who is shackled by the decisions of the controller.

    Where does my point on mythic God like figures come into this? It is but another layer of this same paradigm. God is a way we form to control ourselves through our own edicts. We invent a controller because we seek someth
     
  9. SithLord-Mixo

    SithLord-Mixo Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 21, 2002
    Nice to see a 'Dark City' , 'City of Angels' rip off stirring up such emotion :)
     
  10. Protege-of-Thrawn

    Protege-of-Thrawn Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 14, 2001
    Personally Mixo, I don't think Dark City fleshes out ANY of the level of detail, nor really tackles the same issues as the Matrix. Yes, they both appear as movies about humanity trapped in an illusionary world by a cruel overmind type entity.

    But Matrix as far as I'm concerned, is far deeper then that, and delves into many more diverse issues that are in fact divegent to and on seperate phases of philosophy to the simple concept of illusion vs. reality.
     
  11. SithLord-Mixo

    SithLord-Mixo Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 21, 2002
    i disagree
     
  12. djp72

    djp72 Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Aug 29, 2002
    so is the idea that "reality" in the matrix movies [ie zion and the senitinels etc] is all just a complex part of the matrix for the 1% of humans who don't swallow the normal matrix?


    and what about the "6 neos" thing?

    and the machines destroying zion before...
     
  13. Jet-Eye

    Jet-Eye Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2001
    Does anyone think that the conversation between Trinity and Cypher at the very start of Matrix 1 - "we're going to kill him, you know that.." - poses anything of interest? I mean, it would suggest that Trinity was in league with Cypher, that she was in contact with the Agents: why tell her if she wasn't?
     
  14. DarthSpite

    DarthSpite Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jul 12, 2002
    Just thought tou guys might like this. It's the trailer for the Matrix: Revolutions that you can see after the Reloaded credits. Here ya go!

    Right Click then Save Target As
     
  15. Jet-Eye

    Jet-Eye Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2001
    Why thank you kind sir!!! I shall download that at uni cause uni is firm. Unlike economics.
     
  16. SithLord-Mixo

    SithLord-Mixo Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 21, 2002
    Bullet time in RELOADED looked really tacky now!
     
  17. Jet-Eye

    Jet-Eye Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2001
    Here's some thoughts on 'How Neo stops the squiddies at the end' here. Quite a straightforward theory when you think about it, but is it too simple?
     
  18. Protege-of-Thrawn

    Protege-of-Thrawn Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 14, 2001
  19. SithLord-Mixo

    SithLord-Mixo Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 21, 2002
    If you like theories then go HERE and read the hidden text in the post.

    VERY DEEP
     
  20. Jet-Eye

    Jet-Eye Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2001
    Mixo: nice bloody link, I enjoyed muchly! Others should clickage!
     
  21. Protege-of-Thrawn

    Protege-of-Thrawn Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 14, 2001
    It's a good theory. I give it a solid 8/10 on the Max Lawry Probability table.
     
  22. SithLord-Mixo

    SithLord-Mixo Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 21, 2002
    Mixo always tries to deliver
     
  23. darth_brutus

    darth_brutus Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 25, 2002
    I just downloaded the International Trailer for Revolutions from The Official Site. All I can say is Wow.

    November 6 is too far away. :(
     
  24. Jet-Eye

    Jet-Eye Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2001
    Max Lawry? With Honey?
     
  25. Protege-of-Thrawn

    Protege-of-Thrawn Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 14, 2001
    Yes, and a banana.
     
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