The Matrix, the SW PT, and LotR: Which Trilogy will stand the test of time?

Discussion in 'The Phantom Menace' started by ElfStar, Jul 15, 2002.

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  1. alfy Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2002
    star 1
    Shelley, are you incapable of normal conversation or what?

    All of your posts are angry, sarcastic monologues that are way too melodramatic for their own good.
  2. alfy Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2002
    star 1
    Oh good god.....I just read that interview with Bakshi.

    Could he possibly be any more pathetic?

    The answer is no. And Shelley, before you blah blah blah about some pro-Jackson bias in this post, go read the Bakshi interview for yourself, and make sure to check out the responses to it, at the bottom, by the fans.

    They all point out how Bakshi is obviously just bitter because his film sucked.
  3. Ultimate Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 2000
    star 3
    So in other words you and them are mad because someone involved with Lord of the Rings has something bad to say about Jackson and the new Lord of the Rings?

    Bakishi is entitled to his opinions. Even as negative as they are.
  4. Lagniappe Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 19, 1999
    star 4
    "But I keep forgetting. This is a SW site, and therefore any criticism of Lucas is to be treated with the utmost respect, whereas any criticism of Jackson is to be ridiculed and dismissed. "

    Shelley, you have a tendency to generalize... most people are far more middle of the road. Stop getting so sidetracked by the extremists... It colors your perceptions.
  5. darthsidious32 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2000
    star 4
    To state my own opinion on the original question for this thread:

    First off, I cannot say whether or not I think The Matrix trilogy will be able to stand the test of time because I haven't seen it yet. I've only seen the first one. If the next two are just as good or better than the first one, then yes.

    Same thing with LOTR. If the next two are just as good or better than FOTR, then yes.

    Lastly, in 20 years, the SW prequel trilogy won't be called that. It'll all be one saga with six individual episodes that all go together as one story. So actually, the question would be, "Would the Star Wars SAGA stand the test of time?" I think so. First off, I have enjoyed all of the Star Wars movies to date. They all have their flaws and their strengths. But as far as the general public, the saga will definitely stand the test of time. Kids today love TPM and AOTC as well as the OT, and therefore THEY will be the ones determining the saga's test of time in the years to come. They'll all love the saga, and I think more and more people will learn to love the prequels after the whole saga has been completed for 10 years or so.
  6. Ulaleros Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2001
    star 2
    "Shelley, are you incapable of normal conversation or what?

    All of your posts are angry, sarcastic monologues that are way too melodramatic for their own good."

    i second that.

    "Shelley, you have a tendency to generalize... most people are far more middle of the road. Stop getting so sidetracked by the extremists... It colors your perceptions."

    shelley IS and extremist.
  7. I_Am_Kit_Fisto Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 1, 2002
    star 1
    i find people's attitude toward Bakshi to be truly pathetic. he made some excellent, groundbreaking and enjoyable films (Heavy Traffic, Street Fight, Wizards, American Pop, Fire & Ice) and has continued to make interesting short animated and live-action films (we all know Cool World turned out terrible - let it go - 'sides, FRIGHTENERS sucks ass too).

    He has a right to feel possessive about LORs since he was the first to try and make it as a feature film. He broke a lot of ground. If you don't like it, that's up to you. But he's certainly not the jealous crank retarded illiterate comic-book shop action figure collecting video game playing Fanboys want to characterize him as. Let's see if YOU ever get anything into the collection of the Museum of Modern art, which Bakshi has.

    He's cool in my book and there are alot of things I like in his LORs even though I agree that it never came together and that a LORs cartoon is inappropriate. But he did it for the right reasons and he has nothing to be ashamed of. So please quit the "isn't this guy pathetic" rap. At least he has accomplished something in life & doesn't spend all his free time on the 'net posting nerdy love letters to Peter Jackson.

  8. alfy Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2002
    star 1
  9. Ulaleros Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2001
    star 2
    "At least he has accomplished something in life & doesn't spend all his free time on the 'net posting nerdy love letters to Peter Jackson"

    no, he just receives them from...i dont want to name names, but it starts with "i am kit fisto".
  10. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    The answer is no. And Shelley, before you blah blah blah about some pro-Jackson bias in this post,

    Why would I do that? Well, because every post I've seen you write is pro-Jackson and usually anti-Lucas.

    go read the Bakshi interview for yourself, and make sure to check out the responses to it, at the bottom, by the fans.

    I did read it. Why would the responses from the fans matter? They offer their opinion. You agree with it. Other people may not.

    They all point out how Bakshi is obviously just bitter because his film sucked.

    And that is their opinion. It is not fact.
  11. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    Gee, bitter much?

    Gee, unable to respond to a well-thought-out post from I_Am_Kit_Fisto much?

    Funny how you preach about bitterness and negativity yet feel free to snipe at people who don't share your adoration for a movie which isn't even the subject of this message board.
  12. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    Another thing I've noticed on these boards: people who say nasty things about TPM and/or AOTC and/or Lucas are to be applauded for their "bravery" and "honesty," but anyone who criticizes (cue heavenly choirs of angels) Peter Jackson is to be derided as "pathetic" and "jealous."

    I'm glad, though, that Lucas doesn't stoop to insults and is always polite even in the face of incredible nastiness and personal attacks. His critics have to resort to pathetic insults about him "pretending to be humble."
  13. ElfStar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2001
    star 4
    I'm glad, though, that Lucas doesn't stoop to insults and is always polite even in the face of incredible nastiness and personal attacks.

    True. Sad you don't follow his example.
  14. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    Funny. I make general statements, you and alfy make insulting, rude statements specifically to me and others and act all superior and moral.

    I notice you didn't jump on alfy who called people pathetic and bitter.

    Double standard much?
  15. ElfStar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2001
    star 4
    Alfy should not do it either. If this keeps up, this thread will degenerate into petty insults, which I do not wish to happen.

    Your constant generalizing gets on people's nerves, and serves no real purpose I can see. Please try to make an attempt to comment in a productive (and perhaps even cheerful, maybe? :) ) way.
  16. Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    star 6
    It already has, Elfstar.

    alfy, Shelley, et al. - knock it off. You've hijacked the thread long enough. No one likes ad hominem arguments, or to log on to these boards to be insulted or to get into an *internet* fight. These are film message boards - what could *possibly* occur here to warrant getting riled up and posting insults? What glory or honor is to be gained by sniping? Honestly, is it worth it?

    The topic of the thread is whether or not these trilogies will be remembered many years from now, and explicitly *not* who is more negative, whether PJ should be praised or criticized on a SW site, and Bakshi sure as hell isn't in the original post. Please don't force me to ask Oakessteve to keep you guys on track.
  17. alfy Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2002
    star 1
    I'm done with the argument, because arguing with somebody who is apparently Lucas' PR person isn't worth my time.

    The point of a discussion is to be able to make people challenge their beliefs by presenting them with new possibilities....when a person enters a discussion with a mind that is closed shut, they're doing a disservice to everyone, themselves most of all.

    Thanks.
  18. Ulaleros Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2001
    star 2
    i dont think i'm anti-lucas. he just isnt my favorite director. does he have to be my favorite for me to post here? and if he doesnt have to be my favorite, do i have to be sure not to bring up any other directors that i like more? i like lotr more than the pt..does that mean i'm anti lucas? anyone who is critical of lucas gets the treatment from you shelley...but arent we just expressing our OPINION of him after all? should we not be allowed to say anything but nice things about him? do you think this board is only for people who have no critical things to say about him? i'm still a fan of his after all, just not of the pt.
  19. I_Am_Kit_Fisto Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 1, 2002
    star 1
    ooooooh, UL, whyioughtta....!!!
  20. Lukecash Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 4
    I think Tolkiens world is pretty darned amazing. Lucas also thought it was pretty darned amazing-he acknowleges that Tolkien was one of his major influences.

    As far as Baski/Jackson argument is concerned- Baski did really well with his LOTR movie ($70 million was a nice chunck of change back in the 70's. In my opinion, Baski did well with the resources that he had and the budget. In my opinion Baski was closer to many of the characters in that are found in the book. If he does seem a bit bitter, is that many people are calling his movie a bomb-even though it was very successful commercially. For the time and the medium, Baski did a respectable job.

    Peter Jackson however-while making a fine adventure movie, missed the spirit, characterzation of what was in the novel. And can Jackson flubb up the Two Towers. The asnswer to that is YES. Why? Because he filmed the movies back to back-whatever changes he made in the stories could be more drastic in the later chapters. One of the reason people LIKED the movie, was despite the "adaptations" to the book- they had a good time and it mirrored closely to what they THOUGHT the book did.

    He has a chance to make a very big mistake...and if the rumors are true I will VERY upset with him and the change. Movie adaptation or no...I will be VERY angered.

    I will talk more later...but now I must leave to go see a friend.
  21. Samwise_Skywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2002
    star 4
    I totally disagree. I dont like the Bashki version. I think Jackson hit the nail on the head with his LOTR. For me its perfect. Perfect casting, perfect makeup, perfect scenery, everything I loved about it. You go out there and make a better adaption of LOTR, I'd like to see how much it'd tank.
  22. Ulaleros Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2001
    star 2
    hmm...most of the critics reviews focus on how jackson seemed to find the tone perfectly. that that was the strongest aspect of the film.
  23. alfy Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2002
    star 1
    Yes, but the pro-Lucas contingent in this forum seems to think that the entire world was let down by Jackson's version.

    Apparently they've never been to IMDB...or seen the Oscars...or seen all the top ten lists from major critics for 2001...
  24. Jansons_Funny_Twin Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 6
    I think there is way too much generalization here, and most of it is coming, IMHO, from Shelley.

    I've heard her say that all she ever hears is bashing of Lucas, and praise of Peter Jackson.



    PPOR.


    I haven't seen one of these so called Lucas hating, Jackson loving, brainless drones she goes on about, have you?

    Oh, and Shelley, the whole (Que Heavenly Choir) thing is getting old.

    Oh, and never presume to speak for the majority, ever. [face_plain]
  25. JBFett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2002
    star 4
    after reading the initial post here is my opinion.

    Matrix - An interesting and entertaining Sci-fi action that became a cult film leading to the creation of 2 sequels. Will it be timeless, probably not because it never tapped into popular culture.

    LOTR - For many people this was the mother of all movies. For me, it was a 3 hour borathon since I did not have information from the books to fill in the blanks. However, while it is very well received critically and for the most part by fans and audiences, it has not dominated or captivated the imaginations of the masses, nor has it obtained a level of fun necessary for timeless quality.

    SW - Putting the PT separate from the OT will be impossible just because they are part of a six episode saga. In time episodes 1-6 will not be seen as two trilogies but as one saga. Thus the PT is not a competing trilogy with the above, but it is part of a saga competing against LOTR and the Matrix. SW will stand the test of time far long after LOTR and Matrix hype is gone. It's references all over the media will remain strong forever, both from the PT and from the OT. Bashing Jar Jar Binks on TV shows will be alive far after LOTR has died, just as "Luke I am your father" will be quoted time after time in Star Wars parodies on other shows.

    The PT is being HEAVILY scrutinized because there is too much for it to live up to. If both TPM and AOTC were ANH and ESB back in 77 and 80, they would have sparked the pop culture phenomenon that is star wars just as the others did back when. In the time of the OT, no one had an image of what they wanted Star Wars sequels to be, they just came...now there is the internet, and books and books from the Galaxy far far away to spark the imaginations of millions of fans to createve in their mind what episodes 1-3 should be. Anything that Lucas makes that delves from that self made movie, will anger stubborn fans. This is why Lucas can never win.

    Regardless, Star Wars will stand the test of time simply because it started it all, and revolutionized the way we see and enjoy movies.
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