Arena The MLB Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Community' started by Reynar_Tedros, Nov 16, 2006.

  1. heels1785 Jedi Draft and Streak for Colors Commissioner

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2003
    star 6
    We'll be drafting individual pitchers, I think drafting pitching staffs sucks. Arlon, we can do Friday night if that works, maybe 8ish?
  2. Jedi Gunny Yahtzee Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    May 20, 2008
    star 8
    I can do weekend (maybe/maybe not Friday night). And this would be a Live Draft, correct?
    Last edited by Jedi Gunny, Mar 27, 2013
  3. heels1785 Jedi Draft and Streak for Colors Commissioner

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2003
    star 6
    It would be. It can be set to autodraft and you can edit your pre-ranked list (so you don't end up with Hanley Ramirez or A-Rod).
  4. TheGuardianofArlon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 2007
    star 6
    8 is fine. is it live draft?

    And how many pitchers? Starting pitchers? I've only done the MLB.com version so I don't know the espn
    Last edited by TheGuardianofArlon, Mar 27, 2013
  5. heels1785 Jedi Draft and Streak for Colors Commissioner

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2003
    star 6
    Typically it's 2 SP, 2 RP, and then 4 just general pitching positions, I believe. And then you'll have bench and DL, of course.
  6. Jedi Gunny Yahtzee Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    May 20, 2008
    star 8
    I've seen variations on that with 3 SP, but I'm fine with whatever. I just like building my own pitching staffs.
  7. heels1785 Jedi Draft and Streak for Colors Commissioner

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2003
    star 6
    As do I. I did an MLB.com league last night, and was sorely disappointed that the default is a pitching staff. Still, I ended up with both LA teams, so not too bad
  8. DarthTunick SfC Commish on an "All-Star" break

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2000
    star 10
    [IMG]



    That 30% chance of rain better now affect the Dodgers home opener on Monday. :p
  9. heels1785 Jedi Draft and Streak for Colors Commissioner

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2003
    star 6
    @DarthTunick would you like to play in the fantasy league?

    Regardless of whether it's 6 or 8, we will draft tomorrow night at 8. I'll PM the user and password this evening.
  10. RX_Sith C&G Game Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2006
    star 5
    I will definitely play.
  11. heels1785 Jedi Draft and Streak for Colors Commissioner

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2003
    star 6
    Awesome! We're at 7- just one more spot and the league will be formed.
  12. DarthTunick SfC Commish on an "All-Star" break

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2000
    star 10

    I respectfully decline.
    Last edited by DarthTunick, Mar 28, 2013
  13. RX_Sith C&G Game Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2006
    star 5
    How lame is that?
    PRENNTACULAR likes this.
  14. DarthTunick SfC Commish on an "All-Star" break

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2000
    star 10
    I'm not a fan of these types of fantasy games, and I'm choosing to not go on a rant as to why I feel that way.
  15. heels1785 Jedi Draft and Streak for Colors Commissioner

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2003
    star 6
    All good. To each, his/her own.

    Tigers have no closer, demote Rondon. Chance they re-sign Valverde?
  16. AmazingB Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2001
    star 7
    Johan Santana is most likely done for the season and possibly his career. He likely needs another capsule surgery, the same he had at the end of the 2010 season. And because it's the Mets, his contract isn't insured, so they owe him over $30 million to never pitch for them again.

    Amazing.
  17. heels1785 Jedi Draft and Streak for Colors Commissioner

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2003
    star 6
    I think Santana has to be in the conversation for worst contracts in the history of the league. You agree?

    Kevin Brown and Pavano had awful, awful deals that hurt the Yankees badly, but the Mets have nowhere near that level of disposable income, so they've just been crippled.

    And A-Rod's $29 million this season is more than the entire Astros payroll, which is at $25 million. If it wasn't so sad (for both sides), it might be funny.
    Last edited by heels1785, Mar 28, 2013
  18. AmazingB Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2001
    star 7
    I think it largely depends on your criteria. All told, they Mets will have paid him about $132 million, all for putting up about 15.2 WAR (your mileage may vary with respect to various advanced metrics, but I'm a fan). Over the last few years, the rough valuation for 1 WAR on the open market is about $5 million, making Santana worth roughly $75 million as a player with the Mets. Keeping in mind that prior to getting hurt, the Mets were more than getting their money's worth, as they only paid him about $56 million over the first three years where he posted 15.0 WAR. And I think going in they knew he'd be overpaid over the final years of his contract, the hope was that he'd make it worth it by then.

    But if you start to include postseasons and such, then yeah, it was a pretty terrible contract. I just don't know how much you can include things like that when making these types of calls. Barry Zito is a solid example. His contract was panned the minute he signed it, he will ultimately be paid $126 million by the Giants and has posted 3.0 WAR (for contrast, Santana posted a 3.3 WAR season in 2009 when he made 25 starts and only threw 166 innings). By any measure that is a debacle of a contract. But with two World Series wins, does that make it better than Santana's?

    And Santana has his own milestone moment, throwing the first no-hitter in Mets history. Ultimately it has no inherent value, but every single Met fan was waiting for that moment. I still remember the feeling a week later when I realized that it was something that had actually happened. It's sad in its own way that it was that meaningful, but there was a feeling that he earned his whole contract with that one night.

    In the end, a bad contract to be sure, but if you ever actually look at long-term contracts, especially for pitchers, the vast majority look bad after the fact. Rater than being looked at as one of the worst contracts in history, I think this will be more seen as a cautionary tale. Prior to 2009, Santana had started at least 33 games and thrown at least 219 innings for five straight years. That's pretty remarkable consistency, but shows just how fragile pitching can be, and how bad any long-term deal can look at the end. Let's see how Felix Hernandez's deal looks in 5 or 6 years.

    Amazing.
    heels1785 likes this.
  19. Jedi Gunny Yahtzee Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    May 20, 2008
    star 8
    This is the reason why locking up pitchers on expensive long-term deals is ludicrous; it typically backfires.
    Last edited by Jedi Gunny, Mar 28, 2013
  20. DarthIntegral Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2005
    star 7
    Again, that depends on how you classify "Ludicrous" and "Backfires". If you go into the deal knowing that the last couple of years are going to be way overpaid, but you have to give them that money and those years to get them sign ... and the first 3-4 years of the deal are your "window of opportunity" anyways ... what's the big deal on overpaying that last few years?

    Outside of a few select teams, there aren't many who can afford to contend year-in and year-out. So, if you are a fan of a small or middle-market team, wouldn't you rather see your team pay too much money for too many years to a top free agent pitcher, have 3 years of contention, and then that albatross contract on your hands as you rebuild? As opposed to coming close to contending, but never getting there?

    This is why the luxury tax needs to cut both ways. Teams that don't spend near enough money are as bad - maybe worse - for competitive balance than the Yankees.
  21. heels1785 Jedi Draft and Streak for Colors Commissioner

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2003
    star 6
    Completely agree. Since we're on this subject, Deadspin has posted the salary figures for this year. They've also got some teams broken down, but this is fascinating to me. And also sad, because I think the Yankees have zero chance at the playoffs this year. Team figures:

    • New York Yankees $228,995,945
    • Los Angeles Dodgers $216,302,909
    • Philadelphia $159,578,214
    • Boston $158,967,286
    • Detroit $149,046,844
    • San Francisco $142,180,333
    • Los Angeles Angels $142,165,250
    • Texas $127,197,575
    • Chicago White Sox $124,065,277
    • Toronto $118,244,039
    • St. Louis $116,702,085
    • Washington $112,431,770
    • Cincinnati $110,565,728
    • Chicago Cubs $104,150,726
    • Baltimore $91,793,333
    • Milwaukee $91,003,366
    • Arizona $90,158,500
    • Atlanta $89,288,193
    • New York Mets $88,877,033
    • Seattle $84,295,952
    • Cleveland $82,517,300
    • Kansas City $80,491,725
    • Minnesota $75,562,500
    • Colorado $75,449,071
    • San Diego $71,689,900
    • Oakland $68,577,000
    • Pittsburgh $66,289,524
    • Tampa Bay $57,030,272
    • Miami $39,621,900
    • Houston $24,328,538
  22. TheGuardianofArlon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 2007
    star 6
    Miami could have had a great team this year if they kept their players. I thought they were overhyped last year, and was right but thought they could of been a threat this year...oh well
  23. DarthIntegral Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2005
    star 7
    Houston needs to be charging $1 for any seat in the house this year. That's the appropriate charge compared to quality. And everyone spending less than Cleveland should be ashamed.
  24. heels1785 Jedi Draft and Streak for Colors Commissioner

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2003
    star 6
    Miami is doing BOGO for Opening Day, I believe. Haha.

    Tampa is the only team I give a pass to, because they've been winning pretty consistently with those salary numbers in a small market.

    Verlander 7yr/180 million, could go to 202 million for 8th year. Crikey.
    Last edited by heels1785, Mar 29, 2013
  25. AmazingB Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2001
    star 7
    I've never understood this logic. I heard the same argument a few times with respect to a salary cap, that for some reason a salary floor is also necessary. I just don't see how it makes sense. If the right thing for a team is to cut their payroll drastically to start rebuilding, they shouldn't be penalized for it. They'll be penalized enough. The Astros are staring at their third straight 100-loss season and, in all likelihood, piss-poor attendance. What are they supposed to do? Go out and spend $10 million on some mid-level free agent who's going to bump them from 55 to 57 wins? Aren't they better off spending that money on draft picks, international signings, or saving it for available free agents when they might finally be good again? Payroll might be the most visible piece of a team's budget, but it's certainly not the only piece.

    Amazing.