Arena The Major League Baseball Thread

I don't have an issue with a voter who says "I won't put in anyone who is a known Steroid user", as long as they are a) consistent and b) are willing to explain how steroids and greenies are inherently different, with one being okay and the other not. Similarly, I'm okay with voters who do put in known/confirmed steroid users, and I personally if I had a vote would put voting for Clemens, Bonds, Sosa, etc. But, hey, the All-Time Homerun leader can join the All-Time hits leader in the "why aren't they in the Hall" discussion group.

 

At least the all time hits leader doesn't have a ball in Cooperstown with an Asterisk on it lol.

 

And as a result, you can see him in Las Vegas peddling his wares.

I remember Rose was on the path to redemption, but I can't remember was his did to screw it up. I still think he'll be in the hall of fame after he dies.

 

I remember there was a time when his son, Pete Rose Jr., played for the local Independent League team not too far away from me, the LI Ducks.

This was a great commercial lol.

 

He applied for reinstatement a year or two ago and they found out he's STILL gambling on baseball. Now, he's a private citizen unaffiliated with Major League Baseball and can do what he wants. But given that he was banned for gambling on baseball and wants to be unbanned, maybe step 1 in that process is no more gambling on baseball.

Amazing.

 

That hypocrite who used to play for the Reds (the one who's actually IN Cooperstown) definitely should've kept his big mouth shut about that Steroids thing.

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If Rose had been genuinely contrite and fundamentally changed after he was banned, I think he would be in the Hall by now. I don't think he ever belongs there, but that's just my view. Instead of changing, he just continued on as he was before (which apparently included statutory rape when he played for Philadelphia).

 

Ortiz isn't a HOFer in any case, so it shouldn't matter whether he failed a test or not to begin with...

Yeah, Schilling and Moose are basically the same (I think Moose was a little more valuable, but Schilling has muuuuuch better postseason numbers and the 3000K) and Halladay I think gets the "borderline value but absolutely dominant prime" exception a few guys have gotten... but yes, no way Pettitte gets in before Mussina. Schilling, however, might face backlash for his Nazi-views -- though that didn't seem to hurt him this year...

 

Probably did't hurt him much this year because sometime has passed between the comments that ultimately got him very publicly fired from ESPN, and now, especially since there hasn't been too much mainstream media circulating around him since then. That'll change if he actually decides to go through with running for the Senate later in the year against Elizabeth Warren. Then all those comments will get brought back and then some..

 

A comment about Pete Rose.

Everyone who has ever watched highlights of all time great plays, or studied the game, or maybe even watched him play live knows that he was one of the most brilliant baseball players of all time. History will show that regardless of HOF drama/exclusion based on his poor life choices.

Edit to add: Jim Thome is awesome. Such a great ball player and person.

 

Rose could still be a ba####d if he wanted to. It's hard not to forget his slide into home plate during an All Star Game in the mid 70s when he pretty much ended the career of the opposing catcher. I remember Paul O'Neill suggesting he wasn't really among the nicest of managers; to put it bluntly.

 

I've never understood this argument.

It's not the Hall of Decent Human Beings. I think consideration for being in the Hall of Fame should be about what was accomplished as a baseball player. And that's where the sentence comes to a full stop. Historians can tell the story of how a Hall of Fame player is such a terrible person, or needed to be more contrite, or was undone by drugs or gambling addictions.

I don't hear anyone calling for Ty Cobb to be removed from the Hall of Fame. And, to be certain, if you need to be a decent human being to be in the Hall of Fame, Ty Cobb should never have made the ballot.

 

i think people keep assuming if he was reinstated he'd get in , and from what i've heard from voters they say their informal polling among themselves is that they'd still keep him out.

and the only reason he stopped lying about it after 15 years is because it didn't work and he could sell a book with the confession.

 

He bet on baseball. This was and is forbidden by players, and it’s clearly marked as being disallowed. It’s not an obscure paragraph somewhere. Rose struck at the integrity of baseball by betting on it, and should never be in the Hall as a result.

 

That's an argument I can accept. But how does him being "contrite" or "fundamentally changed" after being banned make up for that? If he played his career while breaking a major rule, make that argument. Don't argue he shouldn't be in because he wasn't "contrite" after being banned.

 

I thought Rose was banned from the Hall of Fame because it was revealed he was the San Diego Chicken.

 

The problem is that Rose didn't slide. And that the catcher was Ray Fosse, who was the A's long time color commentator on the A's broadcast. Fosse says he isn't bitter about the play.



It's only recently with the players contracts being so high that the finally changed the rules about sliding/running into home plate. Buster Posey's injury was one of the catalysts for the change in the rule.

 

What do you mean "one of"? It was the catalyst for the rule. He's essentially the Giant's franchise player. If some no-name catcher had been taken off the field because of a similar collision, that rule would never have come to pass. About a decade ago there was a similar play in a Spring Training game where the Ray's Carl Crawford barreled into the Yankees' Francisco Cervelli at home. Cervelli left the game with a broken wrist and that was pretty much it for what would've been his rookie season.

 

Cool. Perhaps is can be referred to as the "Buster" or "Posey" rule. At any rate, I'm glad for the rule change.

 

Now if only they could make up their minds about what to do with second base.

 

No spikes up is start.

 

Heard on a interview with Jed Hoyer (Cubs GM) on the way back from lunch today (Fridays I always leave campus for lunch, it’s like a treat for surviving another week!) that there is over a 100 FA still unsigned and potentially some of them are going to go workout on their own when ST starts and wait to see how it all shakes out before signing somewhere. Like they were saying, FA changed so much.

 

I’m not arguing that he should be in the Hall if he’s contrite. I don’t think he should be in under any circumstances. However, my opinion is not canvassed by anyone in baseball. I think a contrite approach and changed attitudes would have resulted in enough people in baseball changing their minds about whether he should be in the Hall.

In short, politics.

 

Gotcha - I think I misread your original statement.

 

And assuming he hasn't retired yet, what to do with umpire Joe West.