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Rogue One The Moral Choices/Dilemmas of Rogue One

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Anthology (Released Films)' started by CrAsHcHaOs, Dec 16, 2016.

  1. Lord D'arg

    Lord D'arg Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 29, 2013
    I think the ambiguous nature of the Rebellion was one of the films strongest points. Good people do bad things for what they believe in. Anakin is a prime example of this.

    I agree with some posters that a slight negative from the OT was the black and white depiction of the Empire and the Rebellion. In actual fact, I bet a good chunk of people would have preferred the stability of the Empire, compared the the freedom of the Rebellion/Republic. I mean, one of the reasons Palpatine was voted into power was because of the occupation of Naboo by the Trade Federation. Could this take place during the Empire years? Yes, but it would have been quashed instantly instead of all the political debates in the senate.

    Gone off on a massive tangent, but the gist of what I'm trying to say is it's good the Rebellion was shown in a different light as it makes them more human IMO.
     
  2. PalpShouldLive

    PalpShouldLive Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 13, 2005
    Well it gets into definitions and types of government...

    American Revolution was very organized actually, Militarily and Politically, because they had been running the colonies pretty much on their own BEFORE the revolution..

    The Continental Army had a solid hierarchy after the Continental Congress created it to unite all the colonial militia...

    Each colony had representatives in the congress that were voted by the allowed voters at the time.

    I'll have to research education, but education usually was in the private sector and not run by government, I believe.

    Edit: By the way, one of my relatives was a member of the Continental Congress. John Hart, New Jersey. :)
     
  3. boonjj

    boonjj Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 21, 2016
    It very much reminded me of the prequels in this regard. One of my favourite aspects of the film - characters having their own, "grey" motivations and different political alignments eg:

    - Saw being a rebel extremist that other rebels ddnt want to ally with
    - Jynn having no interest in the war nd just wanting back the life she had
    - Gaylin acting for the rebellion from the inside yet being viewed as part of the empire from most people outside
    - Cassian tasked by the rebellion to assassinate Gaylin, yet didnt do so
    - Bohdi defecting from the empire to help stop the Death Star

    So good!
     
  4. OldTimeFan

    OldTimeFan Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2011
    Jesus Disney gave us an intelligent dark story line.
    Going to see this a 2nd time in a few hours can't wait.
     
  5. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014

    Thats a actual amazing fact I just did a quick search of him.

    Teaches me for only being interested in the 1900-2000 era of history. :p
     
  6. OldTimeFan

    OldTimeFan Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2011
    So your descended from rebel scum?
    Going to be sending this guy after you.
    [​IMG]
     
    Deliveranze and PalpShouldLive like this.
  7. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    Okay king George the III. :p
     
    Deliveranze and OldTimeFan like this.
  8. Binary_Sunset

    Binary_Sunset Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2000

    Also, the Confederate States of America.
     
    PalpShouldLive likes this.
  9. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    I mean did it work...No. other then America what other countries formed out of a revolution that actually succeeded.

    All I am saying is its a rare sight to see rebels in the actual real world planning that far ahead.
     
  10. Darkslayer

    Darkslayer Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2013
    When you are dealing with an organization as efficient as the Empire, you NEED structure like that.
     
  11. Stoneymonster

    Stoneymonster Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    May 8, 2002
    France, the Soviet Union (and now Russia, as 1991 was just as much a revolution), Cuba, China... the list of countries that didn't form out of succesful revolutions is actually shorter...
     
  12. StarWarsFan91

    StarWarsFan91 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2008
    That place had some similarities to the Middle East. I don't think it was a coincidence that the extremists appearances in clothing had a similarity to certain real world ones.
     
    whostheBossk likes this.
  13. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    France was a cluster **** for a few years but yes your right on the others.
     
  14. Jim Ryalto

    Jim Ryalto Jedi Grand Master star 2

    Registered:
    Aug 21, 1998

    Yeah, I found that pretty tacky, really.

    In general, I thought this sudden half-baked supposition that the Rebels were morally compromised too totally out of step with the Saga. Star Wars is not reality. It wears its morality on its sleeve for a reason. And there certainly wasn't the level of sophistication present to really wholeheartedly tackle this kind of question anyway. It was just kind of tossed off like window dressing. Like, OOOOHHHH, Morally Gray Star Wars Guyz!!! In conclusion: thumbs down to this development.
     
  15. ImpreciseStormtrooper

    ImpreciseStormtrooper Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 8, 2016
    Plenty of countries achieved their aims of independence via armed or unarmed uprisings.

    France
    Israel
    India
    China
    Russia (both into and out of Communism)

    But you're right that most revolutions that occur in countries without strong democratic roots or at the very least strong rule of law just end up spiralling into tyranny and disaster. You're just as likely to get Hitler or Idi Amin as George Washington or Ghandi.

    Not sure Saw was trending the right way for the people of Jedha to put it bluntly.

    In the context of the SW universe it certainly leaves plenty of room for interesting stories.
     
  16. WhyKnock

    WhyKnock Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 2016
    Boy, Luke screaming with glee when he gets back to Yavin after killing millions of Imperials has a whole different feeling now..
     
    DaffyTheWizard likes this.
  17. StarWarsFan91

    StarWarsFan91 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2008
    But at least those extremists were not apart of the actual rebellion anymore. While it is clear in the film the true Alliance has done some shady things, they still had the moral high round of seeing that Saw and his men were going down a dark path that I'm sure was causing innocents to die.
     
    whostheBossk likes this.
  18. Solosaber

    Solosaber Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 22, 2005
    Yep. Such is life, TS.

    The truth will eventually come out. Kinda reminds me of this classic meme:

    [​IMG]
     
    whostheBossk likes this.
  19. Import_Jedi

    Import_Jedi Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 20, 2001
    The Rebellion's change in attitude after Rogue One makes Jyn that much more significant a character... She gave Cassian a change of heart; only logical that she would do that to the rest of the Alliance before Luke comes along...
     
  20. WhyKnock

    WhyKnock Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 2016

    But who lived to tell the heartwarming tale?

    Nobody, not even the Imperials as they nuked their own.
     
  21. Import_Jedi

    Import_Jedi Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 20, 2001

    True true. I reckon Admiral Ratiss and company were inspired after Rebels who knew they were dead meat on that Imperial world managed to do the impossible and retrieve the plans to the Empire's planet killer
     
    TooMuchBBQ likes this.
  22. WhyKnock

    WhyKnock Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 2016

    I do think a lot of the moral grey area is to set up the remainder of the sequel trilogy's moral center that was set up by the prequels (and now Rebels).

    It's how you win that determines if you really won.

    After all, wars not make one great...
     
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  23. themoth

    themoth Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2015
    It's a period of uncertainty and doubt. Desperation and oppression does these things to people.
     
    Import_Jedi likes this.
  24. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Jul 15, 2010

    That type of clothing is made for use in a desert/arid climate.
     
    Sarge likes this.
  25. Gigoran Monk

    Gigoran Monk Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 2, 2016
    C'mon. If you're gonna make an argument, you need some facts on your side. :)

    The number of countries that formed from rebellions is vast. In fact, the majority of nation-states in the world are the result of revolutionary movements that succeeded. US, France, Spain, Italy, Netherlands, Poland, Turkey, Algeria, Vietnam, China, etc. The list goes on.

    As for the title of this thread, it's really off the mark. The Rebellion "just as bad" as the Empire? That's some extreme ethical relativism. And no different than saying French partisans were just as bad as the Nazi Reich.

    Yes, we saw morally complex choices being made that went well beyond what we saw in the OT. But ultimately, the philosophies and goals of the two groups are what separate them. Rebels fighting for a free Republic, and Imperials fighting for an authoritarian state (with strong hints of racial supremacy) that indiscriminately murders millions of innocent people on a whim.

    Especially in today's global political climate, where we see a rise in ethno-nationalism and white supremacist views, we should understand that though there are complexities in Star Wars, there is still clarity about whose governance project, that of the Rebel Alliance or that of the Empire, stands on higher moral ground.

    As one journalist said, Star Wars IS political, whether Bob Iger says so or not. It's fiercely anti-authoritarian, and that hasn't been diluted with Rogue One.