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Rogue One The Moral Choices/Dilemmas of Rogue One

Discussion in 'Rogue One: A Star Wars Story' started by CrAsHcHaOs, Dec 16, 2016.

  1. Lord D'arg Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2013
    star 3
    I think the ambiguous nature of the Rebellion was one of the films strongest points. Good people do bad things for what they believe in. Anakin is a prime example of this.

    I agree with some posters that a slight negative from the OT was the black and white depiction of the Empire and the Rebellion. In actual fact, I bet a good chunk of people would have preferred the stability of the Empire, compared the the freedom of the Rebellion/Republic. I mean, one of the reasons Palpatine was voted into power was because of the occupation of Naboo by the Trade Federation. Could this take place during the Empire years? Yes, but it would have been quashed instantly instead of all the political debates in the senate.

    Gone off on a massive tangent, but the gist of what I'm trying to say is it's good the Rebellion was shown in a different light as it makes them more human IMO.
  2. PalpShouldLive Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 13, 2005
    star 2
    Well it gets into definitions and types of government...

    American Revolution was very organized actually, Militarily and Politically, because they had been running the colonies pretty much on their own BEFORE the revolution..

    The Continental Army had a solid hierarchy after the Continental Congress created it to unite all the colonial militia...

    Each colony had representatives in the congress that were voted by the allowed voters at the time.

    I'll have to research education, but education usually was in the private sector and not run by government, I believe.

    Edit: By the way, one of my relatives was a member of the Continental Congress. John Hart, New Jersey. :)
    Last edited by PalpShouldLive, Dec 16, 2016
  3. boonjj Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2016
    star 1
    It very much reminded me of the prequels in this regard. One of my favourite aspects of the film - characters having their own, "grey" motivations and different political alignments eg:

    - Saw being a rebel extremist that other rebels ddnt want to ally with
    - Jynn having no interest in the war nd just wanting back the life she had
    - Gaylin acting for the rebellion from the inside yet being viewed as part of the empire from most people outside
    - Cassian tasked by the rebellion to assassinate Gaylin, yet didnt do so
    - Bohdi defecting from the empire to help stop the Death Star

    So good!
  4. OldTimeFan Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2011
    star 2
    Jesus Disney gave us an intelligent dark story line.
    Going to see this a 2nd time in a few hours can't wait.
  5. Jedi Knight Fett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2014
    star 7

    Thats a actual amazing fact I just did a quick search of him.

    Teaches me for only being interested in the 1900-2000 era of history. :p
    Last edited by Jedi Knight Fett, Dec 16, 2016
  6. OldTimeFan Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2011
    star 2
    So your descended from rebel scum?
    Going to be sending this guy after you.
    [IMG]
    Deliveranze and PalpShouldLive like this.
  7. Jedi Knight Fett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2014
    star 7
    Okay king George the III. :p
    Deliveranze and OldTimeFan like this.
  8. Binary_Sunset Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 5

    Also, the Confederate States of America.
    PalpShouldLive likes this.
  9. Jedi Knight Fett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2014
    star 7
    I mean did it work...No. other then America what other countries formed out of a revolution that actually succeeded.

    All I am saying is its a rare sight to see rebels in the actual real world planning that far ahead.
  10. Darkslayer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2013
    star 6
    When you are dealing with an organization as efficient as the Empire, you NEED structure like that.
  11. Stoneymonster Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2002
    star 4
    France, the Soviet Union (and now Russia, as 1991 was just as much a revolution), Cuba, China... the list of countries that didn't form out of succesful revolutions is actually shorter...
  12. StarWarsFan91 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2008
    star 4
    That place had some similarities to the Middle East. I don't think it was a coincidence that the extremists appearances in clothing had a similarity to certain real world ones.
    whostheBossk likes this.
  13. Jedi Knight Fett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2014
    star 7
    France was a cluster **** for a few years but yes your right on the others.
  14. Jim Ryalto Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 21, 1998
    star 2

    Yeah, I found that pretty tacky, really.

    In general, I thought this sudden half-baked supposition that the Rebels were morally compromised too totally out of step with the Saga. Star Wars is not reality. It wears its morality on its sleeve for a reason. And there certainly wasn't the level of sophistication present to really wholeheartedly tackle this kind of question anyway. It was just kind of tossed off like window dressing. Like, OOOOHHHH, Morally Gray Star Wars Guyz!!! In conclusion: thumbs down to this development.
  15. ImpreciseStormtrooper Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 8, 2016
    star 2
    Plenty of countries achieved their aims of independence via armed or unarmed uprisings.

    France
    Israel
    India
    China
    Russia (both into and out of Communism)

    But you're right that most revolutions that occur in countries without strong democratic roots or at the very least strong rule of law just end up spiralling into tyranny and disaster. You're just as likely to get Hitler or Idi Amin as George Washington or Ghandi.

    Not sure Saw was trending the right way for the people of Jedha to put it bluntly.

    In the context of the SW universe it certainly leaves plenty of room for interesting stories.
    Last edited by ImpreciseStormtrooper, Dec 16, 2016
  16. WhyKnock Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2016
    star 2
    Boy, Luke screaming with glee when he gets back to Yavin after killing millions of Imperials has a whole different feeling now..
    DaffyTheWizard likes this.
  17. StarWarsFan91 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2008
    star 4
    But at least those extremists were not apart of the actual rebellion anymore. While it is clear in the film the true Alliance has done some shady things, they still had the moral high round of seeing that Saw and his men were going down a dark path that I'm sure was causing innocents to die.
    whostheBossk likes this.
  18. Solosaber Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2005
    star 2
    Yep. Such is life, TS.

    The truth will eventually come out. Kinda reminds me of this classic meme:

    [IMG]
    whostheBossk likes this.
  19. Import_Jedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2001
    star 6
    The Rebellion's change in attitude after Rogue One makes Jyn that much more significant a character... She gave Cassian a change of heart; only logical that she would do that to the rest of the Alliance before Luke comes along...
  20. WhyKnock Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2016
    star 2

    But who lived to tell the heartwarming tale?

    Nobody, not even the Imperials as they nuked their own.
  21. Import_Jedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2001
    star 6

    True true. I reckon Admiral Ratiss and company were inspired after Rebels who knew they were dead meat on that Imperial world managed to do the impossible and retrieve the plans to the Empire's planet killer
    TooMuchBBQ likes this.
  22. WhyKnock Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2016
    star 2

    I do think a lot of the moral grey area is to set up the remainder of the sequel trilogy's moral center that was set up by the prequels (and now Rebels).

    It's how you win that determines if you really won.

    After all, wars not make one great...
    Sarge, Dra--- and Import_Jedi like this.
  23. themoth Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2015
    star 4
    It's a period of uncertainty and doubt. Desperation and oppression does these things to people.
    Import_Jedi likes this.
  24. Tuskin38 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2010
    star 1

    That type of clothing is made for use in a desert/arid climate.
    Last edited by Tuskin38, Dec 16, 2016
    Sarge likes this.
  25. Gigoran Monk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 2, 2016
    star 5
    C'mon. If you're gonna make an argument, you need some facts on your side. :)

    The number of countries that formed from rebellions is vast. In fact, the majority of nation-states in the world are the result of revolutionary movements that succeeded. US, France, Spain, Italy, Netherlands, Poland, Turkey, Algeria, Vietnam, China, etc. The list goes on.

    As for the title of this thread, it's really off the mark. The Rebellion "just as bad" as the Empire? That's some extreme ethical relativism. And no different than saying French partisans were just as bad as the Nazi Reich.

    Yes, we saw morally complex choices being made that went well beyond what we saw in the OT. But ultimately, the philosophies and goals of the two groups are what separate them. Rebels fighting for a free Republic, and Imperials fighting for an authoritarian state (with strong hints of racial supremacy) that indiscriminately murders millions of innocent people on a whim.

    Especially in today's global political climate, where we see a rise in ethno-nationalism and white supremacist views, we should understand that though there are complexities in Star Wars, there is still clarity about whose governance project, that of the Rebel Alliance or that of the Empire, stands on higher moral ground.

    As one journalist said, Star Wars IS political, whether Bob Iger says so or not. It's fiercely anti-authoritarian, and that hasn't been diluted with Rogue One.