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Rogue One The Moral Choices/Dilemmas of Rogue One

Discussion in 'Rogue One: A Star Wars Story' started by CrAsHcHaOs, Dec 16, 2016.

  1. CrAsHcHaOs Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 7, 1999
    star 2

    I totally agree. I don't want reality in my Star Wars. I use Star Wars as an escape. Star Wars is supposed to be fantasy. Even though the OT wasn't realistic, I loved its depiction of the Rebels and how they were great people we could believe in. People we could get behind. There's nothing wrong with good, wholesome heroes. Just look at Thor and Captain America, for instance.

    That being said, I still liked Rogue One.
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  2. PalpShouldLive Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 13, 2005
    star 2
    Han shot first.

    R1 was just all Han Solos, which is what the majority of the rebellion was made up of. Not just the idealist politicians and wizards we've seen.

    I prefer Batman over Captain America, myself. [face_peace]
    Last edited by PalpShouldLive, Dec 17, 2016
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  3. CrAsHcHaOs Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 7, 1999
    star 2

    Fair enough! And I won't lie, I love Batman as well lol.
  4. Rickern Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2014
    star 4

    This time Cassian shot first, and GL wouldn't approve probably.

    There's certainly a grey tone in these rebels. Even Mon Mothma looked cold and calculating. But you can't risk to take a wrong turn if you're to fight the biggest evil of all. The rebels were rough but the empire's still the big badass here.
    Anyway, this path was set first in the prequels when we found out that the Jedi (the idealist wizards) weren't really saint and holy men. Seems that the last idealist in the saga was Padme. And she paid the price.
  5. Swashbucklingjedi Game Winner

    Game Winner
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2010
    star 5
    Rebels certainly weren't as bad as the Empire- I missed the scene where rebels blow up city (or planet) filled with civilians or kill their own armies to prevent enemy from winning. Even though some rebels like Saw Gerrera and that Rebel intelligence General who gave orders to Cassian were definitely immoral and ready to do all sort of acts to win, they were not nearly as evil as Imperials in the film. One of the themes in this film was exactly that it is easy to cross the line in waging war since effectiveness many times requires drastic actions with questionable moral choices. Jyn was more idealistic than Cassian in that and she made him also to reconsider what he is fighting for.

    Besides in OT Rebellion blows up two Death Stars and by doing that kill hundreds or thousands people there and not all are completely evil corrupted people for sure but many just work there and may have a family. Some may be forced to work there and are completely innocent for destruction of Alderaan. So in OT rebels are also doing a lot of evil stuff but consequences just are not shown directly. I've always thought that many innocents must've died on Death Star and it is all Luke's doing. Yet not destroying such a place would be even worse since it is used to kill innocents as well.

    So approach in this film is different but what rebellion actually does is not that different. OT just conveniently doesn't show all those deaths Luke, Wedge and Lando must cause.
    Last edited by Swashbucklingjedi, Dec 17, 2016
  6. cerealbox Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 5, 2016
    star 5
    Thor ain't wholesome dude. In the first movie he was a self entitled spoiled jock.
  7. CrAsHcHaOs Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 7, 1999
    star 2

    He becomes wholesome after becoming worthy enough to wield Meow Meow.
    Last edited by CrAsHcHaOs, Dec 17, 2016
  8. Qui-Riv-Brid Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 2013
    star 5
    I blame the prequels myself!

    ;)

    First Yoda attacking the rebellious seperatists now this!

    :D
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  9. cerealbox Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 5, 2016
    star 5
    Right. We went through character growth. Just like the Rebels if you watch Rogue One before A New Hope.
  10. CrAsHcHaOs Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 7, 1999
    star 2

    So you're saying that the Rebels we see in TESB and ROTJ are more moral than the ones in RO and ANH?
  11. LordDallos Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2016
    star 2
    Not the rebels as a whole. No doubt some of them did bad things though. The difference is that now we actually see it. Just as bad as The Empire? That's an incredible stretch.
  12. cerealbox Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 5, 2016
    star 5
    In a way, yes. Especially ones that initially shared Cassian's views.

    Also think the sacrifices in Scarif swayed more of the disbelievers on Yavin
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  13. Lulu Mars Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2005
    star 4
    Since GL apparently couldn't stop telling John Knoll how happy he was with this film, I beg to differ ;)
  14. mattman8907 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2012
    star 4
    Though the one thing I was absolutely amazed with and my friend was telling me this was how quickly the Rebels mobilized their fleet. They were literally over scarif within minutes of Rogue One. I had a feeling before this movie was released that they would be going all in.
    Last edited by mattman8907, Dec 17, 2016
  15. Swashbucklingjedi Game Winner

    Game Winner
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2010
    star 5
    I think that Raddus was prepared to go anyways and didn't care about iffy senators so he mobilized the fleet. But sure rebels were quite fast and effective but that's what makes them better than the imperials- they have generally better morale because they believe in what they do.

    Stormtroopers not so much apparently- they are volunteers at first but ultimately they notice that the Empire doesn't care about them and they are just numbers and as disposable as battle droids. The way how rebels treat their own really tells that they are better than the Empire. Sure Cassian shot the informant on Kafrene but that was not a normal way rebels treat their allies and it was obviously his commander (general Draven was it?) who favored such tactics.
    Last edited by Swashbucklingjedi, Dec 17, 2016
  16. CrAsHcHaOs Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 7, 1999
    star 2

    I see where you guys are coming from now. It makes a whole lot of sense.
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  17. Unit51 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 29, 2015
    star 1
    We ALL knew they'd be going all in. The opening crawl to ANH states it. "Rebel ships, striking from a hidden base....during the battle, rebel spies steal the plans for the Empires ultimate weapon..."
  18. nightangel Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2014
    star 6
    I know and that's why I have problems wih this grey area stuff movies. Too many Han Solo's and too few Luke Skywalker's. [face_worried]
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  19. cerealbox Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 5, 2016
    star 5
    A lot of soldiers become like this as war rages on.

    For all we know, Luke could have a more Han Solo-ish attitude in VIII.
  20. Too-Gon Onbourbon Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2016
    star 1
    If you think they are even in the same ballpark then that is lacking any and all sense of proportion and likely towering naivete.

    Was there no difference say between the British and the Nazis during World War II?
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  21. Pondscum Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2014
    star 1
    I suspect this might be considered too political, but the idea that someone could watch Rogue One and take away from it that the Rebellion was 'just as bad' as the Empire, is perhaps reflected in the rationale of the millions of people who just voted for their own real life Emperor..

    I thought Rogue One showed the lengths the rebellion had to go to, the tough decisions in the face of hopelessness and the mistakes that could be made, but that it still presented them unequivocally as the good guys (and rightfully so.)
  22. Strongbow Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2014
    star 4
    Well, even Luke has to make some pretty cold decisions. No doubt, there were prisoners, and unwilling conscripts, and people just doing what they have to survive on the first Death Star. But Luke ultimately did what he had to do. Now, we don't see any of that on display in the OT. It's easier NOT to think of those things. R1 was a glimpse of a perspective where those things are examined in more honest detail. War is always ugly, but it sometimes still the right thing to do.
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  23. nightangel Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2014
    star 6
    please no [face_sick]
    Last edited by nightangel, Dec 17, 2016
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  24. CrAsHcHaOs Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 7, 1999
    star 2

    Uh....I voted for Hillary.
  25. cerealbox Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 5, 2016
    star 5
    Maybe not.

    But still, no guy is going to behave at 53 the way he was when he was 23.