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Rogue One The Moral Choices/Dilemmas of Rogue One

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Anthology (Released Films)' started by CrAsHcHaOs, Dec 16, 2016.

  1. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel New Films Lawgiver & Casual Flyer star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Let's keep the real life politics out of this. This means everybody.
     
  2. CrAsHcHaOs

    CrAsHcHaOs Jedi Grand Master star 2

    Registered:
    May 7, 1999

    Agreed!
     
    KSkywalker likes this.
  3. Ricardo Funes

    Ricardo Funes Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2015
    For me, this was one of the most BOLD moves ever in a Star Wars movie. And I LOVE that they had the courage to do that.

    Rogue One shows us that the Rebellion was desperate and divided. Much more realistic than simple good-vs-evil.

    I remember people saying that Disney would make these movies too childish. [face_laugh]

    In TFA, a son killed his father.
    In Rogue One, a rebel killed another rebel to protect the information.
     
  4. nightangel

    nightangel Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2014
    if someone likes such things. I don't!!! Star Wars was always an escape from reality to a better world. I don't want to see the same terrible reality as in real world. :rolleyes:
     
    Nillocke likes this.
  5. moreorless12

    moreorless12 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 4, 2016
    One issue of course is that in the OT we actually see very little of the inner workings of the Rebellion, we basically see preparation of technical equipment, briefings to troops and responses to battles. That said I do think the start of ESB hints towards a less "whiter than white" situation, perhaps not in action but in the characterisation of the scenes. General Rieekan seems like someone who makes hard real world decisions for example rather than giving inspirational speech's(some of these in RO feel out of place to me) and the control area is rather dark and mysterious. Leia up against Tarkin in ANH as well isn't just purely berating his evilness but also verbally sparring with him.

    On the Empire side of things though I don't think they were ever really the purely evil space Nazi's that Abrams casts the FO as. Granted in ANH most of the Imps we see are pretty ruthless but in that film especially I think the Empire sets itself up as "the establishment" rather than as a simplistic "other" as the Nazi's have often become viewed post WW2. Luke's journey isn't just good against evil but also somewhat of a non conformist one joining a band of freedom fighters and looking for spiritual awakening following his father rather than career advancement. You fast forward to ESB and ROTJ and most of the Imp officers we see aren't really monsters at all, there brow beaten careerists representing the banality of evil.

    I would say as well that RO and indeed ANH represent a shift in the nature of the political situation. The DS is a much clearer showing of tyrannical power that sets the Rebellion on a much more direct confrontation with the Empire. You get the sense that prior to that things were much more of a shadow conflict which by its very nature is likely to be morality more questionable.
     
    Jedi Princess, Jolee Bindo and CowMoo like this.
  6. Too-Gon Onbourbon

    Too-Gon Onbourbon Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2016
    You have been spared, Star Wars is in no way touching the terrible of reality.
     
  7. MasterMoolah

    MasterMoolah Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2015
    I disagree. The Rebellion would never commit an act of genocide on the scale of what the Empire did on Jedha and Alderaan. I think it showed how desperate the rebels were to have an actual victory. They knew if the Death Star wasn't destroyed...all hope would be lost. Rebellions - real rebellions - aren't nearly as happy go lucky as it's been portrayed in SW.
     
    Sarge and beetzello like this.
  8. Chewies_bandolier

    Chewies_bandolier Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 5, 2002


    Well there seems to be enough Star Wars going around in the next few years to help everyone deal with life. Stories and myths have always been created to reflect upon aspects of reality - Lord of the Rings, for instance.

    Anyway - I fundamentally disagree with the OP as I don't really see the Rebellion blowing up entire planets for the sake of intimidation, but they are 100% not the glowing one-dimensional "goodies" of the OT. Which for me personally, is WONDERFUL.
     
    Ricardo Funes and beetzello like this.
  9. BucMan-55

    BucMan-55 Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2004
    Anyone recall the Jay and Silent Bob conversation about the death star workers? Luke killed hundreds of thousands of people with that proton torpedo and I am sure not all of the folks aboard the death star were evil. We just don't see the humanization of the destruction like in RO. So not totally innocent in the OT, but RO certainly shows a darker side of conflict.
     
    Granek, Strongbow and Ricardo Funes like this.
  10. dick rodgers

    dick rodgers Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Feb 23, 2016
    PREACH IT
     
  11. MoffJacob

    MoffJacob Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 25, 2015
    I felt that the Scariff crisis helped the Rebellion to improve in terms of morals : less shaddy people, less cowards, they were either dead or gone after Scariff
     
  12. Chewies_bandolier

    Chewies_bandolier Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 5, 2002

    Some one in an interview that I can't find online mentioned that the Rebels blow up the Death Star (and all of the independent contractors and their families) in retaliation for the Empire blowing up Alderaan so... yeah :D How you see things all depends upon your point of view.

    I think that the adult me enjoyed this film in a way that 6 year old me just wouldn't appreciate. And that's again okay - there's enough for everyone (which is why I don't watch Rebels or post on Rebels boards about how I disliked it - it just wasn't for me). That's all I'll say for now :)
     
  13. GregMcP

    GregMcP Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2015
    Hmmm... I think the cowards stayed on Yavin. It was the brave ones who followed Jyn to Scarif. And look where that got them.
     
  14. MoffJacob

    MoffJacob Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 25, 2015

    I meant that the "cowards" left the Rebellion, aka leaving Yavin 4 to their planets ;)
     
    Ricardo Funes likes this.
  15. Jedi Master Scorpio

    Jedi Master Scorpio Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 24, 2015
    The way that I see it, even the good folks have to do some bad things in a War. It is inevitable. Collateral damage will happen.
     
  16. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2011
    The film merely reflects what was implied in the OT. The Rebellion (apart from Saw's extremists) is never seen acting beyond the rules of war have established in our own world, and are never engaged in acts beyond that of the OT. War involves the killing of others and acts of moral ambiguity - if you can't handle that then fine but this film doesn't change anything that we had seen previously.
     
    Bob the X-Winger likes this.
  17. MoffJacob

    MoffJacob Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 25, 2015
    True. But the OT opted to portray the Rebellion as White Knights and that's the bold beauty of R1: it has gray characters

    That's why I said that I think the Scariff crisis actually help to scare the cowards away and redeem the shaddy ones
     
  18. CowMoo

    CowMoo Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 12, 2001
    well, i for one, like the more morally, and ethically ambiguous Rebellion. Part of it is because of me: I'm obviously no saint and I don't see myself identifying with heroes who are faultless and are as clean as bleach. Still, I am somewhat surprised that this "re-imagining" of the Rebellion hasn't occurred earlier given the real-world events after 9/11.
     
  19. moreorless12

    moreorless12 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 4, 2016
    The main morally questionable areas were really Cassian killing the informer and Draven telling him to kill Galen and then sending the attack wing to do so as well. The former I think was actually more questionable although you could claim that really he was already doomed when Cassian kills the ST's. The latter again might be heartless but it does seem to be within the rules of war with Galen directly working on a project for the imperial military, like the allies trying to bomb Wernher von Braun which I'd imagine might well have been an inspiration for the character/story.

    Really I would argue that in the end the film is quite positive as it shows us the Rebellion being sent in a more "moral" direction, Cassian can't kill Galen in cold blood having known Jyn and by the end there forces are rallying together to directly fight the Imps.
     
    Jedi Princess, Sarge and Iron_lord like this.
  20. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2011
    The former is an act of an individual and I didn't take it as meaning the Rebellion acts that way as a whole, and the second is absolutely within the rules of war given they believed that it could stop the Death Star becoming operational (or could prevent any further repairs to the station should it encounter problems). Not much worse than destroying the Death Star itself.
     
  21. WriterMan

    WriterMan Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2012
    To respond directly to the OP:

    While watching the film tonight, I had a similar thought, but then I thought through it. The main reason I thought this was because
    1. Cassian killed the informer
    2. They demanded Cassian kill Galen
    3. They bombed Galen's base
    The first is not an act of the Rebellion as a whole and seems to be a split second decision. More or less, I think it showed me that not everyone in the rebellion was Leia or Luke, but there were a lot more guys like Han.
    Honestly, the second one isn't *that* big of a deal. They believed his death to be the last hope for preventing mass destruction. Although it's an adage from a different futuristic universe, it still applies here: "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."
    And third...well, it is a war after all.
    I personally thought this film did a pretty decent job of humanizing the Empire as well.
     
    Granek likes this.
  22. Vespasian

    Vespasian Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    I liked it and I didn't like it at the same time.

    However, Rogue One isn't part of the main series. It's about good versus evil too, but in a different way. I still prefer Star Wars as a black and white (Light Side vs Dark Side) universe, but on the whole I liked that we saw a different side of the Rebellion.
     
    Sarge and nightangel like this.
  23. Cantina Regular

    Cantina Regular Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    May 24, 2016
    Well let's see.

    - No super weapon
    - No slavery
    - Droids get free will
    - Oppressed civilian aid
    - Liberation from labor camps and occupation

    They aren't as bad as the Empire. But the work can and does get dirty.
     
  24. tokilamockingbrd

    tokilamockingbrd Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    May 12, 2015
    I have a good real world analogy.

    How bout that time the US dropped nukes on Japan that kill 10s of thousands to end a war that had killed 10s of millions.

    Do the rebels make tough ethical decisions, yes. Does that make them evil? Well the movie addresses the people who joined Jyn to become Rogue One felt if they quit then would lose the moral highground they stood on when did some bad things. That would be the US dropping the Nukes, but then giving up on the war if the Japanese refused to surrender.
     
  25. Darth_Articulate

    Darth_Articulate Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    While the end doesn't always justify the means, subverting lesser principles in service of greater principles is ultimately justified. Recognition of this value can go a long way towards healing.


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