Rogue One The Moral Choices/Dilemmas of Rogue One

I guess it was just hard for me to accept at first that it in a movie set in the Star Wars universe. But after having read you all's explanation of how the Rebellion became more moral as time went on after ANH, it makes perfect sense. I see now that you did not insult me, and I'm sorry for the snarky response.

 

I think in that case there was no choice. The Rebellion had to do what they had to or else their base would've been destroyed. As well as an entire planet. It was either them or the Empire at that point.

 

Like I said, suggesting one side is morally infallible while the other side is inherently evil with no in-between is flawed and bad writing. No thanks.

 

That's quite alright CrAsHcHaOs The way I was prepped for this movie, I was expecting War to be more than just the context but also the the thing that sets the tone for character motivation etc. And war is hell. It's one of those clichés that will sadly always be true. The Star Wars episodes have not brought that subtext too far forward. Which I think is one of its appeals and something that I hope they can continue to manage as successfully as they have, without ignoring it totally.

These non episodes though provide an ideal platform to skin that cat in different ways than the episodes. Or can highlight the grubbiness and the greyness of obeying orders, whatever they may be, for a just cause. Remember Yoda suggesting to Luke that sacrificing Han and Leia can be seen as a means that justifies even their ends "if you honour what they fight for".

 

Not everything needs to be written in one specific style. THAT'S bad writing. Star Wars is fantasy so having a fantasy be more simple in how it tells it's tales is no issue at all.

And i wasnt saying that the Rebellion had to be clean. Like i said in my first post here, i have no issue with the Rebellion working with bounty hunters, thieves, and gangsters. This can bring all sort of moral shades and discussions.

I have an issue when the Rebellion forcing people to do things they dont want to do. There's no shades there and no discussion. That's bad. That's, "we dont torture we do 'enhanced interrogation'" type of stuff. No, you torture. Andor and that group behind him saying that they things they didnt like, things they cant live with, wow, that's crazy. When you have rebels saying, "the Rebellion is kinda messed up." That's when you crossed a line that you cant cross back.

 

It's a pretty popular trope - if you're thinking of what the Rebels do with Jyn:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BoxedCrook

 

I didn't get through every page so I apologize if this has been posted already.

I enjoyed the the shades of gray shown in R1 as opposed to the black and white of the OT.

As far as why this shift happened consider the political climate of the 70s compared to now. From WW2 and into the Cold War it was Us vs Them, black and white. Modern wars are perceived with those shades of gray. They've always been there, but it was culturally glossed over before.

 

After watching RO my complex analysis is still Rebellion good, Empire bad.

 

The last was my problem. The orders were stupid. They should have been to capture or failing capture to kill. If possible you want the knowledge especially since the thing is operational.

 

Draven does seem pretty foolish giving that order. Especially when, according to the junior book Rogue One Secret Mission, he will get into trouble for disobedience when it comes out.

 

Sure, someone in the Rebellion made a really BAD call on limited information.

Anyone who expects the "good guys" to always make the right military calls should take a good look at the last 15 years of US foreign policy.

 

It's clear the Rebels are reaching the point of desperation in this film. Rumors of this devastating weapon are pushing people to the brink, and when those rumors are confirmed, we have several on the Alliance Council actually calling for an end of the Rebellion itself.

 

Exactly. Every military organization has its share of incompetents, and perhaps that's why Draven is out of the picture in the succeeding films. Also, abducting Galen would likely be a more costly operation than sending a squadron to bomb the facility. We the audience know that he was actively trying to undermine the Empire in his own way, but for Draven he was just another Imperial scientist, so not worth the expense in blood.

 

The Rebellion was a rather large umbrella group made up of multiple different factions/races/groups, who each have their own personal viewpoints, methods, ideologies, etc. And the one kind of general goal that was uniting them was defeating the Empire. So it's only logically that some might be more or less extreme/ruthless than others. It's like the Allies during WWII. The Americans, British, Soviets, Chinese, etc were all very different from each other and had very different ways of looking at things. And what united them, was defeating the Axis Powers.

It's also why the New Republic turning out as it did post-ROTJ made sense to me. After the overarching threat is gone, those old divisions and differences start to reemerge and cause problems. Again, think the Cold War starting after WWII ended.

 

To me, Draven thinks extraction will not be possible and thinks the easier option is to cripple the weapons program by eliminating him. The fact that he's wrong seemed kind of the point.

 

Yeah "bomb the crap out of everything and kill the guy" does, on the surface, seem to be the quicker and easier option than "send a team in specifically to extract him from this place."

 

To be fair to Draven, he does try to get the bombers to stand down.

 

Or he has little to no faith (unlike the politicians) that anything will happen if Galen is brought to testify against the Empire in the Senare...

 

Absolutely.

 

Well since Jedha seemed to have mainly just that one city the moon was pretty much destroyed- saying that Empire destroyed Jedha is not exaggeration while yes celestial body of Jedha and Scarif remained intact. Sure the Empire has more or less destroyed other planets in canon such as Lasan and Geonosis which populations were destroyed almost entirely while Alderaan is the one that was literally blown up into oblivion. Not sure if Anaxes that was destroyed in cataclysmic event of some kind (according to databank)is also Empire's doing- maybe it also has something to do with the Death Star project or maybe it was purely natural phenomenon caused by astronomical events. I wonder why new canon made Anaxes destroyed planet- in old canon it was still intact. Anyway Rebellion has not caused similar disasters in canon as Empire- that's the point.

 

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

That literally IS Star Wars.

I did not like the "morally grey" stuff from the Alliance. Realisitic yes, but not Star Wars. Watch the OT again if you think it is.

 

Killing someone is most definitely morally grey. As long as the rebels never killed anyone, ever, then people can maintain the idea that it has no place in Star Wars, ever.

 

The part I find hilarious is that they consider Saw's group far too extremist and they allow that idiot arrange for Jyn to meet up with her father only so they could assassinate him?!

Still trying to find a copy of the novelisation mind you, but I have no problems with the Rebels being far from perfect after all we had our hint of that when Tarkin was introduced in the Star Wars Rebels series when he paid more attention to the group that was trying to avoid unnecessary bloodshed over the rest... including Ahsoka please note it would have been more interesting if they had no Jedi involved in the Ghost group to see if Tarkin would have reacted the same towards them if they held the same scruples?

 

this thread seems like
is every Rebellion in History just as bad as the tyrants they want to overthrow? Depends on the goals of the rebels.

Freeing the Galaxy from tyrants who just built a weapon that can destroy planets and kill billions/trillions. So doing some questionable things to achieve this is actually normal/expected.