Saga The more you learned about the Jedi or as time went on did you dislike them more?

Of course, my point with was to illustrate the Jedi teachings. Like the tree example, it obviously made a sound when it fell. But if nobody hears it, it's as if it didn't made any. To say that "a Jedi shall not know anger", doesn't mean the Jedi are unable to feel anger or that they don't know what it is. If they don't act on anger, then the anger they felt becomes irrelevant as if it never existed. That's what "no anger" means.

 

Sure - but banning the "rockwellian family" - making a Jedi choose between the Order and "starting a family" seems like a problematic step in the opposite direction.

 

I'm not sure that it is. Banning any structure can be a problem.

 

I don't see it as banning, more like making a choice between a full time commitment to their duty (Qui-Gon warned Anakin about it) or other paths. That is why I think Jedi can leave the order at any time.

 

Even in the OT, Yoda warns Luke:

"A Jedi must have the deepest commitment. The most serious mind."

 

I don't think Jedi have to have families, with their line of dangerous work it may be best not to. It also allows them more time to help others,
but they should have the choice open to them.

I would prefer the order not something you are born into. I'd like it where becoming a Jedi Knight is a choice you can make like it was with Luke Skywalker.

I like the idea of Jedi as an order of knights with powers(protectors) that one is free to join and leave when they wish.

I don't care for the "mystic religious" order monks the Force will guide us or control us given to us at times.
I know its part of the movies, but to me that's just one belief in the galaxy. Even among Jedi they had different views of the force.

I know in ANH the Jedi were referred as old religion by Imperials, but that can just be their view.
It seems kind of weird to me to call the Jedi a religion when it seems more of a organization governed by philosophical beliefs.
Jedi can't be the only one's with beliefs. What about non-force users? They can have religion too.

I really hated the Mortis trilogy in TCW where it implied(this is how I saw it) the good and evil needed to be balanced.
Light outweighing the dark is good, I don't think they need to be balanced.

I almost forgot, I don't like the Yoda arc in TCW season 6 either.

 

They do have a choice. Just leave the order.

Again, Luke accepted Obi-Wan's offer. Just like Anakin accepted Qui-Gon's.

Basically, no standards?

Who said they are the only ones with beliefs? Who said others can't have a religion?

 

That's the thing - why does it have to be an "Order" in the first place? Why can't it be a Martial Art For Force-Sensitives?

A force-sensitive seeks out a master - trains until they are a "black-belt in Force-Using" so to speak - and then puts their skills to whatever use they think appropriate.

Or, if you think of being a Jedi as like being a superhero - the Justice League, and the X-men, don't devote themselves entirely to superheroing - some have family ties to non-superheroes as well - and balance commitment to hero work with commitment to loved ones.

 

Because being a Jedi is more than knowing martial arts and using the Force. Is about living by a set of tenets.

 

A little bit different. Dawkins and Moore can't literally re-write 'facts' and alter the reality of the basis of their arguments...you know, Moore can't invent a Republican president who lived off the souls of orphaned children - as an example.

 

True - but similar principles apply - just calling TCW "Anti-Jedi" or Filoni "Anti-Jedi" may be a bit of a shut-downer.

 

Does a source need to be "perfectly objective" to be taken seriously though?

And who defines "anti-Jedi bias" - the fandom as a whole?

When an author says anything critical of PT Jedi - does that qualify them as "no longer objective so cannot be taken seriously"?

There are an awful lot of SW authors that have done that.

 

Now....all of this comes down to differences in discussions - by which I mean, some people might end up talking past each other because we're discussing things on entirely different levels.

By which I mean to say, the title of this thread might even be said to encapsulate one way of viewing the saga (ie there is a sort of 'saga truth' which is being slowly unveiled through the various incarnations of media releases (perhaps we might call this the 'canon' view)) while others might see the various incarnations as saying far more about the stories the writers/directors etc. are wanting to tell at particular times than expanding upon any particular 'truth' implicit within an imagined 'real' Star Wars universe.

In those terms the title might, kind of, read a little differently. It might be more appropriate from that perspective to ask...what changes have you seen in the way the Jedi are shown in the movies? And in those terms it might be better to ask, what are the motivations of the story-teller in making those changes?

 

Only a very tiny subset of the fans, as Mia Mesharad pointed out the last time it was brought up:

 

The Jedi Order does have flaws. Exploring and admitting them is good.

 

Saying the Jedi Order have flaws is kind of redundant because what doesn't ? I don't know about Traviss but I got a feeling I should have be outraged with the Jedi and feel sorry for Ahsoka in season 5 and again in season 6 with the chip.

 

This subject deserves its own topic, but whatever...

That's not the problem. The Jedi talk about the flaws of some of their own in the movies:

Kenobi: "His abilities have made him, well, arrogant."
Yoda: "Yes. A flaw more and more common among Jedi. Too sure of themselves they are. Even the older, more experienced ones."

The problem is when they change the portrayal of the characters on purpose just to prove a point while not providing a solution.

It got to a point where Lucas himself had to change the dialogue of an episode of TCW in order to prevent the Jedi from being interpreted as the bad guys. The fact that it got that far is ridiculous.

 

It led her to burn down a warehouse full of evidence of corruption and crimes, all in a fit of anger.

Not a good example to cite.

 

Alexrd

Yes Anakin had a choice, but most Jedi were raised in the Order

When I said "I like the idea of Jedi as an order of knights with powers(protectors) that one is free to join and leave when they wish."

That doesn't mean they don't have standards. The Jedi should have moral standards, but it would be nice if they had an option to live normal lives and come and go.

I'd like them to live by a code of morals and honor and I don't think just anyone should be allowed to join. Those willing live by a moral standard should be allowed in. The Jedi order of the PT wouldn't allow an adult to join. Anakin under normal circumstances wasn't even allowed at 9 years old.



CT-867-5309
That wasn't wise of Satine, but I was referring prior to that. She started an investigation. Not everyone one handles anger the same.
I very much doubt a single person on this forum can stay they have never been angry.
There is a place for anger, but unfortunately it is often misplaced and mishandled.

 

Because their parents allowed it.

That would be pointless. To have a normal life is not part of being a Jedi. Jedi live a life of servitude, selflessness and humility. They avoid attachments because not only affects their judgement but endagers those they are attached to as well.

Sheer will is not enough. Why do you think Jedi training starts at a very young age?

Of course not. And his story proved the Jedi right.