Clone Wars The Mortis Opinion Poll

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Nexumaster, Mar 29, 2013.

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So What Do You Think Of The Mortis Arc?

I Like/Love It 72 vote(s) 62.1%
I Dislike/Hate It 18 vote(s) 15.5%
I Have No Strong Feelings One Way Or The Other 26 vote(s) 22.4%
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  1. CaptainRex115 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2013
    star 3
    I am Christian and liked the arc, but I was always fascinated by the Greeks Gods and mythology so hopefully that provided some insight
  2. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    Father states that balance between light and dark != to balance between Jedi and Sith.
  3. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    I didn't say that balance between light and dark = balance between Jedi and Sith, but the Dark Side still represents evil, Light Side represents good. Why would you want these balanced?

    If I had a child and was trying to teach them morality, I would urge against any evil and suppress it as much as possible. Teach them to only do good. I wouldn't call that a balance, and I wouldn't tell them to "balance" anything. Yeah there would still be evil in the world but the goal is not to balance it, it is to suppress it as much as possible. To achieve as great of an imbalance as is possible in favor of good.
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Mar 29, 2013
  4. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    I've wondered the same thing.
  5. Kev Snowmane Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2013
    star 3
    Both the Jedi and the Sith are imbalanced. One embraces only "light" and the other only "darkness" without regard to how those two concepts apply in the real world.

    Let us take "anger" as our example.

    Jedi are taught that "anger" is an unmitigated negative, and should be suppressed at all cost. This tends to dehumanize them as it blinds them to situations where anger is entirely appropriate and can sustain a person's will to act in the face of adversity. Take Maul's killing of the colony to bait Obi Wan. ANY person with a functional moral compass would be angered by Maul's actions, as they are an act of evil.

    On the other hand, Sith are taught to embrace and feel anger at all times and at all things. This leads them to great acts of excess in expressing that anger, and thus to acts of evil. This also acts to dehumanize them, as they lose the ability to distinguish between acts of justified anger and unjustified anger.
  6. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    That's what bothers me. That the Jedi themselves seem imbalanced. Now, I'm not saying that they need the Sith to counterbalance them, but that the ideology itself should be changed to something more "balanced."

    I mean let's say both Jedi and Sith go extinct. People like Han Solo are still considered good even if they do have negative emotions like anger, greed or jealousy. Where does the common man or woman fit in the light/dark balance? That's never really explored. By comparison some of the Jedi shun certain emotions to an extreme. For instance, Padme tells Anakin that to be angry is to be human, whereas he feels pressure to be better than that, and that sense of failure/stress only further damages him.

    The Sith are evil, but the Jedi are so strict that it feels like they set themselves up for failure (which leads to the dark side).
    Darth_Pevra and minnishe like this.
  7. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    That's an extremely interesting way of looking at it.
  8. EHT New Films Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2007
    star 6
    Those are great points. They way that I view "balance" as presented in the films is more like this... this is how I can agree with it and not have the problems you mentioned above:

    To me, "balance" really means something more like "harmony", as opposed to equal weight from two opposing sides. So you have the Force as a whole (note that "the light side" is never said, just "the good from the bad" as said by a noob Luke). As a naturally occurring part of the whole, you have the dark side of the Force. It's there, and it can't be removed. Fine. As long as it stays small, the universe can still go about its business in harmony. But when someone (the Sith in this case) comes along and uses the dark side of the Force for destructive, self-serving purposes, it makes the dark side grow beyond its normal, natural "size". When that happens, it clouds the visions of "good" Force users like the Jedi, and more importantly it throws the Force as a whole out of balance... meaning out of harmony. Destroying the Sith, as per the prophecy of the Chosen One, removes the entity that has been making the dark side grow and restores balance, since the dark side can return to its normal, smaller portion of the Force as a whole.

    The Force
    |---------------------------------------------------------|

    The dark side of the Force (natural state, not bloated by dark side users like the Sith)
    |-----------|

    This is not contradicted by the movies at all IMO. But it was contradicted by Mortis, which really beat us over the head with it when they even included a yin-yang symbol.
  9. Kev Snowmane Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2013
    star 3
    Excellent points.
    Another good example: Luke vs Vader. When Vader threatened Leia, Luke felt fear for her, and anger at Vader for threatening her. Was that wrong? I submit not. And that fear and anger gave Luke the power to overwhelm Vader. That said, he was able to stop short of letting those feelings overtake him to the point that he would cut down a disarmed foe.

    But then he went a step to far and released those feelings, leaving him vulnerable to Palpatine's Force Lightning attack.
    Sean Sinclair likes this.
  10. Kev Snowmane Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2013
    star 3
    Elaborate?
  11. Why_So_Serious Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2013
    star 2
    Random Force-using gods out of nowhere that change nothing and serve only to irritate me? Yeah, no.

    The only good thing about it was that "The Ones" were all dead by the end.
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  12. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 4
    I am into existentialism, but on the other stuff I'm ambivalent. To me, one of the great things about the arc is how open for interpretation it is. If someone were into all these facets you list, it could work for them to interpret everything literally, take what The Father says about the Force and the Chosen One prophecy as in-universe word-of-god, et cetera. But if someone isn't into all those things, there's also nothing to stop the interpretation that the Force-wielders are simply doing their own thing and expressing their own opinions. I personally lean much more towards the latter interpretation. So I don't think it needs to be bought into in the manner you're suggesting for someone to get a lot of enjoyment out of it (though obviously it wouldn't hurt).
    Last edited by Dark Lord Tarkas, Mar 29, 2013
    Darth_Pevra likes this.
  13. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    I thought the implication was that the "Force Wielders" were wrong. The Father seemed to think that the prophecy referenced his children and that Anakin would stay to control them. His children have nothing to do with the Sith. Whereas the Jedi said that the prophecy had to do with the destruction of the Sith.

    One interpretation was to control two demi-gods
    The other interpretation was to destroy ONLY the Sith Order (followers of the Dark Side).

    But even then Yoda makes reference that the latter interpretation could even be wrong.

    When Daughter died, Anakin had to kill Son too in order to restore balance. Yet Yoda's interpretation is the destruction of a Dark Side Order by a Light Side Order. Maybe they both had to go in order to rebuild something new out of the ashes?

    In regards to balance, when I think of balance I'm thinking of an equilibrium of mass which has nothing to do with volume. If the implication is that it takes A LOT of good to counteract A LITTLE evil, then @eht13 could be right in his interpretation, though I wish they would just establish that then - the Dark Side is more potent and it doesn't take a lot to tip the balance, whereas imbalance in favor of the Light Side is impractical since it is so easily counteracted.

    From what I've read regarding taoism, I have never found an example of what is regarded as an imbalance. Taoism AFAIK just seems to say that everything exists as a duality: light/dark, day/night, water/fire, hot/cold, etc.

    Does that mean when the sun rises that there is an "imbalance" between day and night? Not as far as I can tell. It's simply cyclical. Day will be undone by night and night by day. The Jedi and Sith seem to exist as a duality unto themselves. The Sith ruled the galaxy, the Jedi stopped it, the Sith rose again, the Jedi stopped it. Is that a cyclical relationship and how does one stop it for good? Taoism also says war and peace are a duality. You cannot know one without the other. What does a "balance" between war and peace look like? You either have one or the other. There is no "peace-war" or "night-day." They are merely opposites that happen in turn and undo each other.

    Extrapolating that to the Force would mean that the Light Side and Dark Side do not exist in equal strength simultaneously. The sun rises (the Light Side is stronger) and then it sets (the Dark Side is stronger), there isn't a "day-night" as mentioned before.

    If I look for examples of a Taoist imbalance, I'm almost exclusively sent to articles regarding Taoist medical practices, which is far more complicated and has not only to do with yin and yang but also 5 elements - fire, water, wood, earth and metal (I think that's the five), and a fever for instance would mean that there was too much fire and too much yang (I'm BSing that off the top of my head, but it's something like that). If you look to THAT kind of Taoist approach, then Yin and Yang do have to exist simultaneously in equal measures to be healthy. But again, what happens if there's too much light side? Sure "too much yang/fire/heat" in a body leads to a fever which is bad, but what does too much good lead to?.... that doesn't even make sense. Good is something intrinsically desirable, why on Earth would I want it counteracted?
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Mar 29, 2013
  14. CT-867-5309 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    I'm sure my opinion has been well noted by this point.
  15. rumblewagon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2004
    star 4
    Don't you think you need to repeat it again? Just to make sure.....
    The Shadow Emperor likes this.
  16. CT-867-5309 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    Well, yes I think I do.

    The clones are not sentient.

    There.
    rumblewagon likes this.
  17. Slowpokeking Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    I don't like or hate the 3, nor the Mortis Trilogy in TCW, but Abeloth is just a terrible terrible idea. WHY?
    cwustudent likes this.
  18. 07jonesj Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2010
    star 4
    Alright, I've decided to lay down my opinions on Mortis in some depth, something I've never really gone into (I was content to watch the havoc when Mortis first aired).

    The premise is strong; explore the prophecy of the Chosen One, and what "bringing balance to the Force" actually entails. These are things that are incredibly key to the 6 films, yet are never explicitly defined. Luke (and Vader) apparently bring balance to the Force when killing Sidious. If we are to ignore all the Hands and other Force-users running around in the EU, you're still left with 1 Jedi - is that balance?

    The introduction of Qui-Gon Jinn thrust forward a new concept, which was following the living Force. Qui-Gon followed the Force, and his actions seemed much more grey than the regular Jedi we'd seen. He was known as a bit of a renegade to the Council. This obviously leads you to the thought - is Qui-Gon's path the path of balance, not entirely light or entirely dark, just listening to the Force? Does that then mean that Luke was in fact not a conventional Jedi like we think of in Yoda or Obi-Wan, but like Qui-Gon?

    Mortis explores this by presenting us with the Ones - the Father, Daughter and Son. The Daughter is clearly a representation of the Jedi, while the Son represents the Sith. The Father, however, I find the most interesting. Much like Qui-Gon, he wishes to listen to the Force, and he believes that will maintain balance. Going into the backstory of the Ones detailed in Apocalypse, we know that all three of these beings were originally like the Father, until the Son drank from the Font of Power and the Daughter drank from the Pool of Knowledge.

    This would suggest that true balance, then, would actually involve no Jedi or Sith, but of all individuals following the Force. When the sibling Celestials drank from the planet, balance had to be maintained between the two, yet this was not "true balance".

    Coming on to the prophecy of the Chosen One, Anakin Skywalker is destined to bring balance to the Force. I think there are defining moments in the prequel era where Anakin is shown to struggle against what would seem to be the "will of the Force". He refuses to stay on Mortis, he receives visions of Padme's death, and proceeds to do everything in his power to prevent that from becoming a reality. This journey pushes Anakin through both the Jedi and Sith ranks, and it is only at the end of ROTJ when Anakin, then Vader, follows the will of the Force by betraying Sidious.

    I'd like to make a little note here about mentioning the will of the Force, as I've seen forum users be adamant that this isn't a thing in the Star Wars universe. Top of the list of complaints is generally that trivialises the character's developments, their turmoils and their decisions, as it's already set in stone. To that I'd say that it's made clear you don't have to follow the Force's will (whatever that may actually be). Anakin's choices were clearly his and his alone. The Force just adds a separate layer to these choices, yet Yoda himself points out that there are many futures, it is our decisions that shapes which ones come to pass.

    In terms of what the Force desires, we could argue that the Force itself desires balance. Anakin Skywalker's journey utterly decimates both the Jedi and the Sith, and it was later added through the Prequels that he may have actually been developed by the Force itself. Plagueis adds it's own interpretation to these events, claiming that his interference in the Midichlorians causes them to react and create Skywalker, with the intention of destroying the Sith (and presumably the Jedi too). Yet, again, Anakin still made his own decisions to reach that opportunity in ROTJ.

    Arriving back to the Ones, and their role in events, it would seem the death of the Daughter causes a catastrophic state of imbalance, according to the Father. He states that even the wider galaxy will be affected. I actually think that's just common sense. Surely if there are Jedi like the ones in the prequels, some are bound to fall to the dark side? We've seen it happen time and time again, their methods just don't work for all. The repression of emotions, the path they encourage would seem to be too strict, and not flexible in the least. Then obviously when there are Sith, they lust for power, and that is bound to create havoc across the galaxy.

    The real question is if a galaxy populated by an Order that followed the Force, like Qui-Gon and the Father, would be any different. Would conflicts between Force-users be less frequent, or even nonexistent?

    This is just scratching the surface too, as I said at the beginning; as a concept this is really fascinating to me, and it needn't detract from characters' decisions or motivations. I plan to make another post detailing why I enjoy watching these three episodes on a less conceptual, or philosophical level - discussing the visions of Qui-Gon and Shmi, the fall of Ahsoka and the duel that ensues, the ecosystem of Mortis etc, as this post is long enough.
    Last edited by 07jonesj, Mar 29, 2013
  19. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 6
  20. Togruta Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2010
    star 4
    Craptis- I mean Mortis. Ahem yes. I like it.
  21. Jedi Master Chuck Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2013
    star 1
    I'm a Christian and do have a very strong faith.


    I enjoy Star Wars as a fictional universe as I obviously don't follow Taosim / Buddhism. The mythology of Star Wars is still very interesting to me and I would still very much to like more about the events of Mortis.

    I agree that the most perplexing concept here is the "balance" between light and dark. I can see how too much darkness is bad, but I don't understand at all how too much light is bad.

    The Jedi Order in the prequel era is not without flaws. They minimize emotions to an extreme and stick to the law / code more than what is right. I may offend someone here, but that's not my intent. I think it's almost akin to a Church which is set on following it's own Church doctrines / rules / laws above Jesus' teachings and God's actual word. It's more about the human organization than God himself or actual light / good. Where I'm coming from is that, I believe strongly in faith, in living holy according to God's word, but not necessarily in accordance with the law of the Church. If the Church goes against the word or makes up it's own laws, I don't believe in those things. As with Government and all other organizations of man, religion is equally prone to human error. If this wasn't the case, we wouldn't have the atrocities known as the Crusades committed in God's name.

    I'm not suggesting the Jedi Order is as corrupt as the Catholic Church of the Holy Roman Empire, but I think it's somewhat analogous. If you look at the Catholic Church at the time, they conformed to the will of the Roman Emperos, adopting pagan holidays as their own (Jesus was most likely born in September rather than Dec. 25, the Winter Solstace, the day of Jesus Resurrection is called "Easter" in reference to a pagan fertility godess etc.), and acted in accordance with the Emperor's endeavors to reclaim the Holy Land. The Church of this era was extremely hypocritical in that they claimed to follow God's word, but instead carried out the will of man even in stark contrast to what Jesus actually came and died for.

    The way this applies to the Jedi, at least from my perspective, is that the Jedi Order of the time close to the fall of the Republic (interestingly enough, the fall of the Holy Roman Empire was preceded by the Crusades), is very set in their ways. They rely more heavily on the code of the order than the will / direction of the force. Their connection to the force is waning as the Dark Side is growing more powerful. They're fighting as generals in a war, even though it may go against their mandate to act solely in defense as protectors of the peace and use action only when necessary. I think The Clone Wars started to show us the more human side of the CIS. While the leaders / financiers were primarily big businesses deceived by a Sith Lord, there were many planets legitimately dissatisfied with the Republic's current state, particularly it's ruler Chancellor Palpatine. This is of course, no coincidence as they were in a sense, correct about Palpatine. The brilliance of Palpatine's plan was that neither side was entirely wrong. The Republic wasn't wrong to stand against the CIS, as they were being lead by a Sith Lord, but they were completely unaware that they too were under the thumb of Darth Sidious. He beautifully played the two sides against eachother with the Jedi completely caught in the middle. It was undoubtedly a difficult decision, but particularly toward the end of the war, perhaps it is true that the Jedi should have withdrawn from the war. My impression is that the Jedi were so caught up in their role as leaders / generals in the war that while they didn't have desire to rule the Republic as Palpatine implicated, they did believe that it was only through their intervention that peace could be restored. Once Dooku was gone, with only Grievous left to lead the droid army, I think peace could have been restored between the Republic and CIS. We saw in episodes of TCW, that there were actual people on the Separatist council like Mina Bonteri, who sought peace actively. Nute Gunray, San Hill, Wat Tambor, Poggle, and the rest were only interested in profit. They weren't going to keep fighting a losing battle. Grievous was a coward and was in no way the same kind of dynamic and eloquent leader as Count Dooku, even with orders from Darth Sidious. The truth is that Sidious needed Dooku to lead the CIS and anything short of a true master of deception capable of playing the diplomat (not just evilevilevilevilevilevilevil like Darth Maul), could deceive the leaders of those separatist planets as effectively.

    It's interesting that The Clone Wars really started to bring up some of these issues particularly in the last arc with Ahsoka. They addressed the more human aspect of the CIS in season 3, but it was marred a bit by some weak episodes with Satine and Padme at the same time. Heroes on Both Sides and Pursuit of Peace I think were good, but didn't stand out because they were placed among too many similarly toned political episodes. Corruption, my personal least favorite episode, really trivialized the political / more lowkey episodes of the season. It mad them feel more like one off filler episodes than actual meaningful insight into the actual dynamics of the conflict between the CIS and Republic.


    One could make the argument that it was not Anakin's marriage / love for Padme that caused his downfall, but the deception required to hide her from the order because of an antiquated law of the Order. What part of the light side of the force denies that a Jedi should love and be loved? These are powerful and important emotions. I think it was only Jedi code that prevents the marriage between Anakin and Padme. Yes, attachment is something that can drive someone to the dark side, but love and attachment do not necessarily go hand in hand. Had Obi-Wan, Yoda, etc. known about Padme, they could have given Anakin better council and perhaps helped prevent his fall to the dark side. As they say, iron sharpens iron. To me, it's similar to the Catholic church barring marriage of Priests despite no actual teachings in the Bible even remotely necessitating this (I don't mean to offend any Catholics).

    Comparatively, I would say Obi-Wan very much loved Satine. You could see his heartbreak when Maul killed her. Where Obi-Wan remains strong is that yes, he feels the loss, he feels the pain, he feels the anger, but he doesn't let them drive his actions. The difference between a Jedi and Sith is that, a Jedi does not let emotion drive their actions. They internalize and rationalize their feelings. Obi-Wan felt the pain of losing Satine as I believe he did deeply love her and, had the order not mandated lack of "attachment", I believe he would have been together with her.

    The Sith let emotion, fear, anger, etc. completely take over and drive their actions. "Always remember I am fear, always remember I am hunter, always remember I am nothing". It seems the dark side of the force is very much an all consuming power. When he became Darth Vader, Anakin Skywalker was truly dead and born again a Sith Lord. You could view it as similar to Faust selling his soul willingly to the devil. Once one gives themself over to the dark side, it's all consuming. This is where someone like Asajj Ventress is not a sith. She uses the dark side, she's swayed toward the dark side, but she's very much conflicted, even as apprentice to Count Dooku. There is light in her still as a former Jedi. I suspect that her path may lead her on a completely different path in the future. The Sith, give themselves up to the dark side entirely. Thus, Anakin killing younglings is not too fast of a fall. He is no longer Anakin Skywalker, but Darth Vader. Even symbolically, a sith is given a new name at the moment of their conversion, a completely new identity, signifying their rebirth as a new person.


    The Mortis trilogy was undoubtedly interesting because it brings these themes full circle. We hear much of the sith doctrine echoed by Son as he uses a number of phrases common to Vader, Palpatine, Maul, etc. To me, this shows that while Son is more than a Sith, he's delved even deeper into the dark side of the force, these feelings and ideals that they hold to come from a common place - their connection to the dark side brings out these thoughts and emotions. The Dark side resonates with their strongest emotions and prays on their weaknesses.


    To me, the concept I can't quite grasp is how balance is really needed. I would possibly suggest that Father was misguided in this endeavor. After all, the Force Wielders were far more powerful than any Jedi or Sith, but they could bleed and die the same as anyone else. Their connection to the force was much stronger, but ultimately they weren't really deities.


    My personal feelings about the force is possibly influenced by my real beliefs, but I do believe that in Star Wars there is an afterlife. I believe the ability to retain identity in the force / appear as a force ghost is simply to retain their identity in this material realm / plane, not in general.

    I think it's certainly interesting Father was the first to disappear after death. The more interesting thing to me is that Obi-Wan disappears even before or just after Vader's lightsaber makes contact. I think an allusion could be made to Elijah and Enoch, two people in the Bible who didn't die. It says Enoch simply walked with God but never died. It may also relate to the physical laws of conservation of mass / energy. In Star Wars, perhaps the body disappears as their being becomes part of the force / energy of the galaxy. But the thing is, if this is the case, Qui-Gon's body was burned. He never disappeared, so it seems that this ability to "retain identity in the force" can be mastered or achieved even after death. I think there is consciousness and a sense of being for all people not just those powerful in the force, but the ability to retain identity and manifest through the force in the physical realm after death is the skill which Qui Gon masters. Perhaps one even more powerful and skilled could manifest as more than a ghost, as a physical being. This could possibly relate to the ability of Darth Plageuis to "cheat death" and may be something interesting to see in the future if any Jedi could attain this level of connection with the Force. Obi-Wan's body never seemed to die....unlike even Yoda. "you can't die Master Yoda!" "Powerful I am in the force, but not that powerful'"...perhaps more there is to the mystery of the force and the chosen one than we are yet aware.


    Personally, I'm not of the belief that evil is necessary to define good. I don't have to see a person murdered to know that life is precious, valuable, and meaningful. In that same sense, I don't think that outright evil is necessary to define good or that an overflowing of good and selflessness is a negative.

    Consider that Anakin was truly selfless - his desire to keep Padme alive was not purely for her sake. It wasn't to prevent Padme's pain, but to prevent his own loss, his own pain and (temporary) separation from her had she passed from this world. True selflessness would be to accept the pain (as Obi-Wan exemplified with Satine), and live as a Jedi, strong in the force for the others around him, for his children, etc. Selflessness in this case, would have prevented his downfall. Yes, Padme would have died (this is questionable as Anakin's actions directly cause her death and I believe Palpatine may possibly have had a role in influencing / enhancing these fears in Anakin's mind), but he would have met her again in another time, in another place, and (in my opinion) she would be in a better place even if separated from him for the time being. A desire to control things beyond our power and an unwillingness to yield to higher power, be it God or in the case of Star Wars, the Force, is something I could readily identify as a key part of Anakin's fall. Where I come from is that, I personally believe that God does have a will for our lives. We can live for ourselves, yeah, or we could live for him as he died for us. I think a lot of churches etc. are hypocritical in that they claim "oh you're saved, go do whatever you want your sins are forgiven", but Jesus really taught holiness. He taught us to deny ourselves (our sinful will), and live for God. " Go and sin no more", which we have the power to do through his spirit. I believe he blesses us in ways we don't realize even if it's not physical or material. Anakin would suffer pain in this life had he lived completely selflessly, but ultimately would have served the greater good of the galaxy. He died redeemed though, so Anakin's fate is not a bad one. To me, it's very true of real life in that, no matter what evil deeds a person has committed in their life, it's never too late for their redemption (I personally believe it's faith in Jesus, asking him to save us cause we can't do it, and repentance of our own sin). It's interesting to note that Anakin is seen as a force ghost immediately after his death. To me, this further highlights that to be a force ghost is not simply to retain consciousness. I think this is something all people experience, but only Jedi with a strong enough connection to the light side of the force are capable of using the force after death in a way that influences the physical realm. This further highlights just how powerful Anakin's connection to the force was in that he mastered this "ability" immediately after death as if it's not something that needs to be learned for those whose power with the force is inherently strong enough.


    In any case, I very much find the mythology of Star Wars interesting. I don't mean to preach with any of the things I say about my faith, nor do I intend to force it on anyone. I simply intend to explain my faith so that others may understand. I'm human and fallible, so if any of it is interesting, don't take my word on any of this. I only intend to reflect God's word, not preach my own. In any case, with a series as steeped in mythological and spiritual themes as Star Wars, I feel the best way to explain my thoughts on these things is through examples provided by my own faith. It's a subject I'd love to actually discuss with George Lucas to better understand the story of Star Wars.


    My best guess about an over abundance of the light side of the force is this. The force is the force, it exists, and regardless of who or what uses the force, it will be eternal, everlasting, unchanging. To say an abundance of the light side exists, is to say that those who wield the light side of the force exercise excess dominion over the force, ultimately emphasizing their own righteousness. In this sense, perhaps the Jedi Order of the prequel era was so powerful and had such influence over the galaxy throught heir mastery of the force, they failed to see the single Sith Lord manipulating the entire galaxy. The idea that one man could bring everything crashing down was beyond their line of vision. By the time they realized that something dark was imminent, through Palpatine alone and the sheer amount of death, corruption, and deception brought about by the Clone Wars, the dark side had become so overwhelmingly pervasive and powerful that their own connection to the light side of the force had faded. The dark side, as in true evil, does not need to remain in balance, but just as the Sith became too powerful, the Jedi Order was too powerful and influential before The Clone Wars. This was ultimately their undoing as it fell upon their shoulders to lead the battle in the Clone Wars to keep the Galaxy together.
    minnishe, rumblewagon and 07jonesj like this.
  22. Kev Snowmane Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2013
    star 3
    If the clones are not sentient, then there is no such thing as sentience.
  23. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Dude, you totally missed it.
    07jonesj likes this.
  24. Kev Snowmane Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2013
    star 3
    Have you ever read the Dragonlance books? If so the Kingpriest of Istar ought to be familiar to you.

    Or, to use real world examples: the Inquisition and the later Witch Burnings.[/quote]
    Last edited by Kev Snowmane, Mar 29, 2013
  25. Jedi Master Chuck Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2013
    star 1
    I like the point Jones brings up about Qui-Gon and the "living force". It's a concept I had forgotten, but I think it makes a lot of sense. To me it's like the differentiation between faith and religion. Perhaps the "imbalance" or the "excessive light" is the coalition of light side wielding Jedi known as the Jedi Order, wielding too much power and emphasizing their own influence, their own personal laws and code, above the will of the Force itself. This is a concept Obi-Wan and Yoda learned in the later years and as mentor to Luke, were able to guide him along this path. By this token, I think the Jedi Order under Luke will be different from the order established by the old Jedi.


    In this sense, perhaps it was not just his destruction of Palpatine, but also through his destruction of the Old Jedi Order that Anakin brought about balance. The prophecy was simply that he would restore balance, not that the balance would bring about salvation for the galaxy from the clutches of the Dark Side. It's sort of like the prophecies about the Messiah. Jesus came for forgiveness of Sin, not freedom from the Romans. Many who missed him were looking for a political savior, not a spiritual one. It's similar in concept that the Old Jedi Order missed the concept of balance.


    Anakin, and by extension Ahsoka, seem much closer to the "living force" path by which Qui-Gon lived (as jones pointed out). I think this may really be the key to explaining the chosen one prophecy and the things that transpired on Mortis. It's probably the best lens through which we have to see the series at this point.
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