The Mystery of Star Wars

Lucas had it right in episodes 4 thro 6. (I know this may seem a little redundant at first, but hear me out.) Everything was perfect, he created a modern myth, full of adventure and mystery. Episodes 1 and 2 sucked every ounce of mystery right out of the original trilogy. Even the start...Episode 4...ot was genius...What were episodes 1 2 and 3? We asked. Now I know...and now I dont care.

Lets see what else:

(1) Boba Fett: He was awesome...We never saw his face...we all wondered about it. Plus, he was such a minot character. Now we know all is is is an annoying clone. Not only that but he was a little brat as a kid.

(2) The clone wars. I always wondered what they were...this fleeting reference intrigued me for years. Did the army of clones turn on their masters? We all had our own idea. Now its just dumb.

(3) Midichrloins. Need I say more. All you have to do to find out if someone's a Jedi is give em a freakin blood test. Thats mysterious. No need to add science into Star Wars, Lucas. What point was there to these microscopic organisms? How did they improve the story?

(4) Palpatine. I didnt want to know his background. It was a great mystery. When did he learn the dark arts? Was he a former Jedi? Now we know he was a stuck up senator and we even know his homeworld...Naboo.

(5) Yaddle. Wow a pink Yoda. Yoda was cool when he was the only one. An oddity. I would have been happy never seeing more Yodas.

(6) C-3PO and R2's meeting. The mystery was cool...this is not...Anakin made him. Great.

My question is: Why did he have to draw of the old movies so much? The galaxy is a big place. Seeing Tatoonie again with 3PO and R2 just made it seem smaller.

In the next movie they will probably have the Battle of Tanav...right after we run into that bounty Hunter on Ord Mandell, and see who Lando won the Falcon from.

 

(1) Boba Fett is still awesome, and not annoying or bratty in any way.

(2) The Clone Wars are better than I could have ever imagined.

(3) Midichlorians improved the storyline immensely.

(4) Palpatine. Finaly we know his background.

(5) Yaddle. How cool is that?

(6) C-3PO and R2's meeting. Who could ask for a better metting for these two characters?

I am especially glad that we went back to Tatooine for the prequels. It really helps tie Luke and Anakin's story together.

 

Holy #$% I could not disagree more with the originator of this post. Geez.

I don't have time to get into this too much, but to sum up - I have come to this conclusion:

The Prequel Trilogy and the Classic Trilogy are VERY DIFFERENT. Period. We never knew how different they would be . .and I am here to explain that that is not a bad thing.

As you say, the CT is more myth, excitement, heroes versus dark villains, etc. I agree with you whole-heartedly.

On the other hand,the PT should really be called the Political Trilogy, and I love it. The PT (Political Trilogy) is all about the politics, behind-the-scenes backstabbing, and governmental transformation from a Republic that lasted over 1,000 years to a DICTATORSHIP.

The PT still gives the CT a richness and depth that I never thought possible. Now, when Luke gets zapped by force lightening I will always consider Vader remembering how it was when HE got struck by the same lightening in Ep II, and so on an so on.

Lucas has said on many occasions that one of the reasons he made Ep 4-6 is that THEY WERE THE BEST trilogy, and that the first trilogy is really about Machiavellian politics. Um, yep, I would agree on all those points.

Wow. Sorry Episodes I and II were such a "waste of time" in your opinion.

Spike Edit: No flaming.

 

I never said they were a waste of time. I said they drained the mystery out of the original triology.

Spike Edit: No personal attacks. Attack the arguments, never the person.

 

machiavellian politics? The politics in that movie were ridiculous! How, I ask, when there are 50 million inhabited worlds in the Republic, is it possible to have just ONE (naboo) give a vote of no cofidence in the chancellor and have him overthrown? If that could happen they would have a new chancellor every week. And then the same minisule planet votes for the repuiblic army? This tiny planet wields an incredible amount of power...Great politics. very realistic.

 

Not to mention that they vote for a queen and appoint a senator. Lucas should be a political scientist.

 

Cut the sarcasm. I don't mind anybody disagreeing with Lucas. But do it in an intelligent manner. Using sarcasm is not conductive to discussion. Thanks.

 

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[b]grav1mage:[/b] How, I ask, when there are 50 million inhabited worlds in the Republic, is it possible to have just ONE (naboo) give a vote of no cofidence in the chancellor and have him overthrown?[hr][/blockquote]As Palpatine explains to Queen Amidala in TPM, Supreme Chancellor Vallorum had been mired by baseless accusations of corruption. The situation with the Trade Federation's blockde of Naboo was only the straw that broke the Eopie's back. Queen Amidala made the "motion" for a vote of no confidence, but it was the entire Senate that actually voted him out of office. He was low in the popularity polls as it was, so when this new horrible situation arose, when it seemed like Vallorum could do nothing about it, he was voted out of office.[blockquote][hr][b]grav1mage:[/b] And then the same minisule planet votes for the repuiblic army?[hr][/blockquote]Well, Jar-Jar (on behalf of Naboo) made the "motion" to give Palpatine emergency powers, but it took the entire senate to vote that motion into reality.[blockquote][hr][b]grav1mage:[/b] Great politics. very realistic.[hr][/blockquote]Considering it mirrors events transpiring right now here on Earth, I would say it's fairly realistic.

 

Name a mirror situation on Earth.

You miss my point.
By many accounts there are 50 million inhabited systems in the Republic...(Some estimates are as low as 12 million some as high as 100 million)But for the sake of argument lets say 50 mill., then how is it that little Naboo wields so much influence?

If it was mainly the whole senate that wanted the army, why did Palpatine have to convince Jar Jar to raise the issue? Why no get one of his millions of other supporters. Why wait till Amidala left and make the moron Jar Jar bring forth the motion? Would he think it was not obvious to the senate that his HOMEWORLD was the one that presented the motion. Thats some very clever politics.

I dont think I am being sarcastic, as some are here, I am merely presenting my opinion that I think that the thing that is unintelligent here is not my argument, but the plot of episodes I and II.

 

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[b]grav1mage:[/b] Name a mirror situation on Earth.[hr][/blockquote]Let's see. A political figure uses the threat of terrorism to scare his people into granting him emergency powers so he can start a pre emptive strike on another entity that he "has heard" is planning to attack them without having to wait for the Senate to agree with it.

Am I talking about Palpatine, or am I talking about Bush?[blockquote][hr][b]grav1mage:[/b] You miss my point. By many accounts there are 50 million inhabited systems in the Republic...(Some estimates are as low as 12 million some as high as 100 million)But for the sake of argument lets say 50 mill., then how is it that little Naboo wields so much influence?[hr][/blockquote]Any system could have called for the motion. It didn't have to be Naboo, but that's who ended up making the call.[blockquote][hr][b]grav1mage:[/b] If it was mainly the whole senate that wanted the army, why did Palpatine have to convince Jar Jar to raise the issue? Why not get one of his millions of other supporters? Why wait till Amidala left and make the moron Jar Jar bring forth the motion? Would he think it was not obvious to the senate that his HOMEWORLD was the one that presented the motion. Thats some very clever politics.[hr][/blockquote]As Mas Ammeda implied it was a radical suggestion, one that few senators would dare make. It took someone who was brave. Palpatine manipulated Jar-Jar because he was easily controlled by fear. In fact, the whole reason Palpatine had to send Amidala away was because he knew she would never have done it. Is it suspicious? Sure, it's about as suspicious as Bush telling us the reason we invaded Iraq was because they had weapons of mass destruction, but after we leveled the place they can't find any.[blockquote][hr][b]grav1mage:[/b] I don't think I am being sarcastic, as some are here, I am merely presenting my opinion that I think that the thing that is unintelligent here is not my argument, but the plot of episodes I and II.[hr][/blockquote]I would say it's the other way around. It appears that you are setting out to make a case for why the prequels aren't any good in your opinion, and in the process you seem to be misunderstanding the narrative of the films themselves. Then you turn around and blame the "lack of logic" on the films, when it's really just seems to be the result of your hasty assumptions and knee-jerk judgements.

 

I guess, unfortunately for you I have my own opinion. Look, my point is that there is nothing intelligent about Palpatine's plot, and not only that, but the politics of the Republic make no sense(for a government with 50 mill worlds, one little planet has an incredible amount of say).

But that is beside the original intention of this post, which is to discuss the effects of episodes 1 and 2 on the mysteries of the original trilogy.

And, going back to that original point, here's another thing: That Jedi that Jango just shoots and kills. Doesnt that drain a little of the mystique out of the Jedi? Am I alone here? Why is the Emperor so afraid of Luke becoming a Jedi when a single bounty hunter is all thats needed to kill one?

 

If it was so radical how did it pass in the Senate? DId it take a mindless cartoon to convince them by saying "we need an army"?

In regards to your mirror situation on earth...here's what it would take for your situation to mirror that of episodes 1 and 2:

Bush began as a senator in congress from rhode island. he brings the governror of RI to the senate to vote no confidence in Bill CLinton. Clinton is removed from office and Bush takes over. The US has no army. he uses a minor rebellion in alaska to convince the new senator from RI to propose a army be created for the US.

 

Why so radical? The situation was dire . .the Separatists had a HUGE army and were about to make war with the then defenseless Republic.

Now . .who was the one Senator who was strenuously against building an army for the Republic? Padme.

Passing an amendment to give the Chancellor emergency powers WAS RADICAL (what democracy wants to give one man all that power?) but the Senate knew something had to be done quickly (since Ep I already established it takes a LONG time to get things accomplished whenever the Senate is involved).

Now . .if, per chance, Padme was at the Senate, and if SHE were to propose given the Chancellor more powers then damn, this would REALLY mean that the universe was in big trouble and the Senate would say, ?Damn, the very opponent for the creation of this army thinks we are REALLY desperate so we must be in a pickle.? Oh and plus the whole galaxy respected Padme tremendously.

She was not there so Jar Jar had to do it, who represented Naboo, as a whole. Period. End of his story arc. He is the one who sets up the powers that Palpy has . .and the powers that Palpy never gives up from now on.

One of the MANY ingenious ways Palpatine is manipulating the Senate and major players . .like Iago whispering into Othello's ear. Genius.

How would you propose Lucas show Palpatine's rise to powers because the general SW fanbase seems to be at least mostly satisfied with the Palpatine involvement of the prequels, from what I have seen.

Sorry, don't mean to be rude . .just typing really quickly . .and as for your main question involving the "mysteries of the SW saga being preserved" I will have to address that at another time. Have to run. Thanks for the discussion.

 

grave1mage: You are one of the many that couldnt handle the transition of a kick - ass real time trilogy to a planned history lesson that ultimately is to satiate hard-core fans and also to make new hard-core fans in a new generation. There is no sarcasm here - it just didnt do it for you buddy - no harm there, though you should keep in mind that the people in this forum for the most part adore this story.

 

Well, you're right, I couldn't handle it. I'm not knocking those who like it though. I think mnay agree with me, though Im not sure how many.

Tolkien said it best, he said the appeal of Lord of the rings was that there was always some place out in the distance that the reader never saw, and if he brought you there, he'd have to show you a new thing that you could never see. Lucas has brought us to all those places we never saw in the original trilogy, without creating new mysteries.

 

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[b]grav1mage:[/b] I guess, unfortunately for you I have my own opinion.[hr][/blockquote]How you choose to see the prequels is no skin off my back. That's your deal, not mine.[blockquote][hr][b]grav1mage:[/b] Look, my point is that there is nothing intelligent about Palpatine's plot, and not only that, but the politics of the Republic make no sense(for a government with 50 mill worlds, one little planet has an incredible amount of say).[hr][/blockquote]Let me repeat this again. One little planet has no more say than any one of the other 50 million worlds. Naboo has no more "say" than any other planet or corporation that has a representative in the Senate. Naboo made a "motion" to grant Palpatine emergency powers, something any Senator could have done. If the majority of the Senate had been against the motion, it wouldn't have been accepted.

As far as Palpatine's plan for galactic conquest, it appears really intelligent to me. Well thought out, with backup plans for any conceivable contingency, I can't think of a smarter villain now that you mention it.[blockquote][hr][b]grav1mage:[/b] But that is beside the original intention of this post, which is to discuss the effects of episodes 1 and 2 on the mysteries of the original trilogy.[hr][/blockquote]From where I sit the mysteries of the saga have only deepened with the addition of the prequels so far.[blockquote][hr][b]grav1mage:[/b] And, going back to that original point, here's another thing: That Jedi that Jango just shoots and kills. Doesn?t that drain a little of the mystique out of the Jedi? Am I alone here? Why is the Emperor so afraid of Luke becoming a Jedi when a single bounty hunter is all that?s needed to kill one?[hr][/blockquote]It shows that the Jedi aren't invincible superheroes, while simultaneously showing just how wicked Jango Fett really is. It turns out that Jango has specially made blasters that can shoot much more rapidly for a longer period of time without overheating than most other hand held blasters. He uses this speed to distract a Jedi with the first shot, and then peg them with the second (and third if he did it right).[blockquote][hr][b]grav1mage:[/b] If it was so radical how did it pass in the Senate? Did it take a mindless cartoon to convince them by saying "we need an army"?[hr][/blockquote]It was one of those things that a lot of people thought of doing, but that only few would actually dare it. Once Jar-Jar makes the motion, these people jump on the bandwagon.[blockquote][hr][b]grav1mage:[/b] In regards to your mirror situation on earth...here's what it would take for your situation to mirror that of episodes 1 and 2: Bush began as a senator in congress from Rhode Island. he brings the governor of RI to the senate to vote no confidence in Bill Clinton. Clinton is removed from office and Bush takes over. The US has no army. he uses a minor rebellion in Alaska to convince the new senator from RI to propose a army be created for the US.[hr][/blockquote]I don't know about you, but it's close enough to make me nervous.

 

I dont know if it was so much about creating new mysteries for GL in either of the trilogies. He does what Tolkien describes in the quote you posted - he created a new, totally indigenous world for people who are interested to imagine on. His own story in that world is just that - his story. What Lucas shows us on film is the story of his choice - which happens to be the watershed era in that Galaxies history. And many, many different peoples from all over have added to his universe bit by bit and it looks like it will go on forever - which is incredible if you think about it. A totally imagined, pro-active universe that has no end as long as people with imaginations wish to visit and explore. Funny you should mention Tolkien - because Tolkien created a history and geography for his trilogy with the Silmarillion, which many, many scholars agree is the better written work ( me too )but would be impossible to film just because of the depth of the lore in his world ( it would take at least 7-8 long films ) - where as Lucas has created a back drop to his story - not the entire universe. And ultimately Tolkiens middle earth can only be explored so far because its his canon alone, Lucas has endorsed many others to develop his world in books, games, cartoons, comics, etc. Some people ( myself included ) will only recognize what Lucas himself wrote, filmed, or produced, and thats OK - it still makes me happy to think when im old and gray theres a still a place in a galaxy far, far away.

 

I agree...I only recognize what Lucas wrote also. And as for it being his story...I just wish he took more care with his universe...lots of people, including myself cherish the original trilogy, but as I said, I think the new ones took away from them. Of course its his universe, and he can do whatever he wants, but I am pointing out why I think the new took away from the old, which I believe generates some interesting discussion about the nature of GL's universe.

And maybe GL didnt intend to create mysteries...But he did. And he did it brillantly. They intriuged me and everyone I know for years. I think thats a HUGE part of the appeal of the movies.

Now as for Naboo having undue influence in the politics of the republic... of course all these other systems voted on these motions, but the singular fact that only one system need make a motion of no cofindence to cause a vote to overthrow a chancellor is ludicrous. Especially given the scope of the Republic. Think about it: assume there are 10,000 senators(I dont know if this is accurate, someone correct me if there is a definate number)...this is a huge amount(small in galactic terms), how many at any given time would like the current chancellor? How often would there be governmental upheavels?

 

What your saying about the politics again goes against the artists vision. True there are thosands of political representatives but only one can be the start of the political aspect of the GL's story and that happens to be Naboo. I think were to assume thats there is a vote after Amidalas suggests no confidence in Valorum - a vote that passes - which is the beginning of Palpatines political aspect of the takeover. Again it goes back to GL choosing this venacular to unveil his story - and its not far fetched at all if the creator of the story says this is the way it is my universe. And the political storyline begins in the OT with the suggestion of an absolved imperial Senate. In that scene, we now see, the end ( temporarily ) of Palpatines work to gain control politically.

 

Ok...not lets not even talk about star wars for a minute...so we can get around the artist's vision thing...

Lets say you were creating a galactic government...would you give a single system that kind of power?

(much off topic from this thread, but a fun discussion)

 

If I were creating a galactic republic everyone would have an equal say in what goes on, and thats really the point here - your not off subject at all - which gives the story alot more resonance. The Republic evolved over a 1000 years, it wasnt created by one man, but it is taken over by one. Now if you were to ask me what would I do with a freshly conquered galaxy..........he,he.

 

I hate not knowing things, so the PT is nice to clear it up a bit.

(1) Boba Fett: Still rocks. Is still mysterious to me. I mean what happens to him after Genosis. It's nice to know how he comes about.

(2) The Clone Wars: Thank god we know what happens. I was getting sick of all these refrences to them and never knowing anything.

(3) Midichrloins: These I still don't understand and peronally don't care about.

(4) Palpatine: This guy I wanted to know so much about. I mean did he just appear out of the blue or what? It's cool to know his background.

(5) Yaddle: Yoda couldn't have been the only one. He was a mutant or anything, crikey.

(6) C-3PO and R2's meeting: This ROCKS! Here's why: Anakin made C-3PO and R2 was the personal droid of Padme. *DING* *DING* *DING* Just chance that they happen to be major players down the road and wind up in the hands of Padme and Anakin's children. I don't think so! DESTINY!

~ Crystal ~

 

But thats my point. There's no more theorizing about Palpatine's background. I suppose this is a feeling of some nostalgia that people who were huge fans fo the old trilogy might have. I've loved the movies since I was like 6, and my friends and I spent countless hourless theorizing about things that are now no longer unknown. Its sad in a way. And, there's really nothing that anyone, even George Lucas could have done to meet those sorts of expectations.

 

I see alot of fans struggling the way you are with this issue, grav1mage. If your at a point where the integrity of the series is at stake (in your opinion) theres only two options for you. Love it for what it is or walk away.Its like any relationship when times are rough.