main
side
curve
  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST The Mystery

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Darth_Pevra, Dec 16, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Maybe Plagueis had a secret apprentice.

    About midis, since ANH was about The Force overcoming technology, perhaps episode 7 will be about technology overcoming The Force?
     
    Dra--- likes this.
  2. Dra---

    Dra--- Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2012
    The power of faith is that it defies logic. So it's not really a strong argument against faith to say that it doesn't make sense that one can access the Force without Midis (or a lower count). That's exactly the amazing mystery that faith presents. And I'm an atheist.

    Lately I've been thinking a lot about the power of faith (in anything, no matter how irrational). People survive the most impossible situations in life with faith.

    And I also believe that all living beings in the GFFA have midis. So at some level all beings are in touch with the Force.
     
  3. Immortiss

    Immortiss Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Anakin is a perfect example of someone with all the potential, but misguided faith. Part of the reason I want to see Plagueis is to explore this science vs. faith theme. Or even bring it to a conclusion. It would be getting back to the OT style by depicting another aspirational Hero's Journey. I think it might be a great mash up of the entire series. The OT meets the PT so to speak.
     
  4. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of Future Films star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2012
    I completely agree with faith having a huge impact on using the Force. Look at Luke in ESB, he has as big of a midi-chlorian count as his father yet he can't lift the X-Wing out of the swamp because he doesn't believe he can. That's why he fails as Yoda puts it. So no matter how large your midi count if you don't have faith then you'll never be as powerful as someone with a small midi count who has complete faith. I would love to see that theme explored further in the ST. It could be a good reversal of Anakin's story to see a protagonist who by all rights shouldn't even be able to use the Force but through deep faith is able to overcome that disadvantage and defeat the villain.
     
  5. jedijax

    jedijax Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 2, 2013
    Or someone who feels as though they rightfully should be able to use the Force because of who they are but can't because of arrogance and the feeling of being entitled.

    Or perhaps both and that creates a conflict between the two during training.
     
    Dra---, Darth Archimage and Immortiss like this.
  6. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Belief is important, of course, but I'm not sure about that "you'll never be as powerful as someone with a small midi count who has complete faith" part. I would probably say "you'll never be as powerful as someone with about the same midi count who has complete faith."

    Even the OT shows that belief alone is not enough, and that the Force is just stronger for some people no matter what. In the PT, we got the biological explanation for that reason, but in the OT we have Luke telling Leia that the Force is strong in his family, and we have Palpatine fearing what could happen if the son of Skywalker became a Jedi (not if some random kid from any background became a Jedi).
     
    Mystery_Roach and T-R- like this.
  7. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of Future Films star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2012
    I agree that so far the saga shows that some just have more natural ability than others but that's kind of why I'd like to see a character who is the opposite of Anakin. All life creates the Force and all life has at least some midi-chlorians so is it possible that all life can communicate with the Force to some degree? I don't know but I think a character who has a limited number of midis and struggles to even use the Force but overcomes that limitation through faith to defeat the ultimate villain could be interesting to see.

    And that could be the downfall of this villain. What would one of the most powerful Sith Lords ever have to fear from a Jedi runt? By all rights they shouldn't be afraid of them and would be right to overlook them. But no matter how strong they are it's no where near as powerful as this person's faith. It would be the perfect trap for a Sith: the one you overlook is the one you should fear the most. The Force works in mysterious ways and all that. :D
     
    Darth Raiden, EHT, Dra--- and 3 others like this.
  8. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Yes, their overconfidence could be their weakness. ;)
     
  9. Dra---

    Dra--- Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2012
    We could argue that faith has already shown itself to be stronger than midichlorians in the PT and OT, but not as overtly as some of us would like to see in the ST. How can Obi-Wan possibly defeat Anakin in the PT? Anakin has a higher midi count and he's empowered by the darkside. Answer: Obi retains his faith in the Force while Anakin grows arrogant in his power.

    Something similar happens at the end of the OT. We can't measure Palpatine's midi count (unless the EU does?) but I think it's safe to assume its up there with Yoda and Anakin. However, Anakin's count has supposedly been cut in half (so to speak) with his loss of limb. Yet when he puts his faith in love and his son, he is able to defeat Palpatine, who has grown arrogant in his power. Moreover, Luke's faith in Anakin helps to change him.

    Faith allows one to defeat their opponents in surprising ways. Sometimes it has to do with defeating an arrogant opponent drunk on their own power. Other times, it allows them to defeat them by changing their interior. I would argue that faith will always allow the weaker opponent to find a way. That's the mysterious power of faith.
     
  10. Darth Archimage

    Darth Archimage Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    May 28, 2013
    I would love to see science -vs- faith in the ST!

    I am of the opinion that Midichlorians and Faith/Determination are both paths to the Force. The PT showed us the science and the OT showed us faith and determiniation. I think it is interesting that both the Sith and Jedi had each portrayed a bit of both philosophes.

    The Jedi in the PT collected their order by finding those with high Midichlorian counts (which I've always wondered was a mistake), but it was determination and Yoda's teachings of Faith that help Luke to succeed in the OT.

    Plagueis spent decades learning about Midichlorians, however if I recall correctly Palpatine didn't seem to rely on them as his master (he didn't take Maul's midi count before he decided to 'adopt' the infant). Palpatine's also appeared to be all about faith, albeit, overconfidence in the OT.


    I couldn't have said this better. This is what I want to see in the ST.
     
  11. Dra---

    Dra--- Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Ok, how's this for a plot (If you hate this, that's ok. I haven't had my coffee yet!). Inspired by the creation of Mordred in Excalibur.

    Luke and Leia's children are good Jedi, but have lower midichlorian counts than them or Anakin. The thought is that their lineage will continue to weaken in the Force. This dissolution may either be a natural part of the Chosen One's lineage, or it could be because Luke and Leia both decided to marry non-force sensitives.

    Either way, a Sith, or someone with an interest in breeding a powerful Skywalker offspring, takes their genetic material and combines it in order to produce a "Pure Skywalker."

    This third sibling then functions as a kind of Mordred figure intended to hate its parents and destroy the Skywalker family.

    Only its relatively weaker siblings can defeat it, through faith in the Force, or by having faith in It. :eek:
     
  12. T-R-

    T-R- Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 13, 2003
    Kenobi beat Anakin by experience and cunning, not by using the force or by having faith in it. Vader killed the Emperor by sneak attack, nothing to do with faith in the force.

    And as far as Luke failing to lift the X-Wing, that was because he didn't think it was possible and didn't "unlearn" what he had learned. It was mental, not due to a lack of faith in the force.

    No one, in any of the movies, ever said you had to have faith in the force to use it. You needed a high midi count and training on how to manipulate it in order to use it.
     
  13. Dra---

    Dra--- Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2012
    You certainly have a right to that view. Obviously others see it differently.

    Happy holidays!
     
  14. Mystery Roach

    Mystery Roach Chosen One star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2004
    I think it would go against the previous movies for someone with a midichlorian count so low that they shouldn't be able to use the Force at all to overcome that limitation and do it anyway, but I certainly have no problem with someone being able to defeat an opponent who has a much higher midi count than they do.
     
    Dra--- likes this.
  15. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Shelf of Shame Host star 9 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Midichlorians were one of the few things I didn't like about the PT, so I wish that they're not mentioned in the ST.
     
    Darth_Pevra likes this.
  16. Mystery Roach

    Mystery Roach Chosen One star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2004
    Midichlorians don't even have to be mentioned specifically. Now that they have been set up, you can just say that one character is stronger with the Force than another and as an audience we'll understand why. I kind of suspect they'll avoid midichlorian talk anyway unless it's absolutely crucial to the plot to do so.
     
    Dra--- likes this.
  17. Dra---

    Dra--- Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2012
    I don't mind them mentioning it once and in the right environment: a mad scientist's lab.

    Darth Mad Scientist: "My creation will have the highest midichlorian count since Super Mario! They will wipe the Jedi out! All of them." Cackle.
     
    Mystery_Roach likes this.
  18. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    The 6 part Saga idea is so 2005. If Lucas wants to make it a 9 part Chosen One prophecy saga he will. No questions asked. I'd be surprised if it didn't advance Anakin's legacy in someway.
     
    Dra--- and Mystery_Roach like this.
  19. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR

    DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2002
    Of course it does. That's why it's a faith thing.
     
    Darth_Pevra and Dra--- like this.
  20. T-R-

    T-R- Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 13, 2003
    No doubt the 6 part Saga is over and it is the 9 part Saga Lucas always talked about. Even back then I was on these boards saying Lucas would make the ST and that it was 9 parts, being snarked at every step of the way. That doesn't change the fact that Anakin's 6 part arc ended in RotJ.
     
    Dra--- likes this.
  21. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Shelf of Shame Host star 9 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Poor Luigi.
     
    Dra--- likes this.
  22. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Force Ghosts ringing any bells? Anakin's role in the saga isn't over by a long shot.
     
  23. Darth_Corvus

    Darth_Corvus Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 17, 2010
    Only thing I want about these mysteries is to go back to the original oriental roots of star wars philosophy. With the flowing life force that connects everything and the light-dark dichotomy that together forms a whole it was basically taoist philosophy. In the PT along with the totally unnecessary midichlorian crap they had to show in that messiah crap, and that the dark is chaotic and the light is the balance. For starters the opposite of chaos is harmony. NOT balance. Hence the line in the Jedi code: There is no chaos. There is harmony. And second, Anakin was only alluded to as a great warrior in the OT. Not some freakin' space Jesus. Western religion is fine and all but if the roots of Star Wars are in the east, let's not retcon it out.

    But as a bonus, here is a mystery for you all: If the Force has a will and has a special relationship with living organisms known as midichlorians, is it possible that the Force itself is a being? Or comes from a being? Maybe a long dead being wants to come back from the Netherworld.
    Okay, let's make it simple. Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children. Sephiroth is dead. He wants to come back. He disperses his genes in the lifestream as Geostigma to infect people. He wants to use the infected people to find the last remains of jenova which he can take order. In order to facilitate this, he gave birth to his three remnants.. Now: Spehiroth is the dead being in the netherworld, Geostigma is the Force, the remnants are the midichlorians and hell knows what or where the jenova cells are.
     
    Darth Archimage and Dra--- like this.
  24. Dra---

    Dra--- Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2012
    I loved the first part of your post. The second part is very interesting, but a little confusing. If they did such a thing in the ST, I hope they would keep the mystery to it by just showing images and not explaining it much. :)
     
    Immortiss likes this.
  25. Immortiss

    Immortiss Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2013
    [​IMG]
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.